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VF2 Spindle taper wear

friesen

Cast Iron
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
I had my 10k spindle rebuilt by setco this spring. The spec sheet sent out says they sent it out with the drawbar measuring 1060lb, which is supposed to be to spec, although that seems too low to me. I did a half baked drawbar test using an air pressure regulator connected straight to the diaphram, and it took 42psi to get to where I could just start moving the tool holder. 42x38sqin = 1600?? (Its a square piston)

I have been noticing funny taper wear. I know I must have had some aluminum chips riding around too long, as I have some pits I have had to clean up.

So I cleaned this up with 400 followed with 1500, but it still seems to be fretting, or something. I am cutting pvc with a 38 helix 3 tooth cutter from Maritool. The toolholder is a shar brand er32.
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Wow, Setco's (supposed to be) a reputable company in the spindle world, but it does look like you've got an incorrect taper angle(too open at the large diameter) along with perhaps a chatter or cyclic linear error of the wheel as it traversed. The pics are great, by the way!

If you have a contact in their QC department I'd send some of the pictures to them and ask for an explanation. If your sales contact is any good they should be asking questions of the shop too.
 
I know everyone has a hard on for Setco, but I've had terrible luck with their rebuilds. The OEM spindles they build seem to be OK, but their rebuilds are the most expensive around and the quality seems lacking.
 
Try again with a better quality tool holder before you get on Setco too hard. Shars quality is lacking IMHO. I'm not saying the tool holder is the problem, but I had issues with some Shars tooling I bought that was lightly used.
 
I simply cannot fathom why anyone would even think about attempting to clean up one of the most important parts of a machining center with one of the most cheaply made toolholders available. What you are doing is the equivalent of lapping a Webber or Starrett guage block using a chinese parallel as the gauge. You have a Maritool end mill so you know how to contact them. Purchase one of their less expensive tool holders for your spindle and use that instead if you must. But Shars???? Or is this an exercise in how to destroy a spindle taper?
 
I have non shar tool holders as well, the blue fit is the same.

Setco is working with me on this, thanks for the comments.

@Zahnard Kopf I think you misunderstand. I used sandpaper to spot sand the burrs inside the taper. I don't understand where the burrs came from exactly, unless a piece of aluminum can really do that kind of damage.

As far as shars go, its not real easy when you are starting out to know where you are going. There is very little concrete proof of the difference between toolholders, mostly just comments like "they are junk". Finally, I decided to try them. Sometimes you have to buy cheap to learn the difference.

If it turns out that they really are a cause of problem, I'll replace them with maritool or something. However, some people say Maritool cat40 holders aren't any good either. Show me some blue proof, I say, or something.
 
I have non shar tool holders as well, the blue fit is the same.
Setco is working with me on this, thanks for the comments.
@Zahnard Kopf I think you misunderstand. I used sandpaper to spot sand the burrs inside the taper. I don't understand where the burrs came from exactly, unless a piece of aluminum can really do that kind of damage.
As far as shars go, its not real easy when you are starting out to know where you are going. There is very little concrete proof of the difference between toolholders, mostly just comments like "they are junk". Finally, I decided to try them. Sometimes you have to buy cheap to learn the difference.
If it turns out that they really are a cause of problem, I'll replace them with maritool or something. However, some people say Maritool cat40 holders aren't any good either. Show me some blue proof, I say, or something.

I understand completely the issues of starting out and being on a budget. I am not that far away from there myself.

However...

Having been there, and traveled the very same path, I can tell you without hesitation that these things do make a difference. There is absolutely nothing wrong with questioning. And there is nothing wrong with being economical. Both are values that serve well the man or woman in your position.

There is however, a difference between inexpensive and cheap.

Some times cheap chinese goods are all one can afford as they wind the road toward growth and eventual success. ( however that is determined ) More often than not however, those cheap chinese goods cost one more than they think both monetarily and in other core values like time and effort. ( not to mention aggravation and stress )

I have used MariTool tool holders in the past, and continue to use them. And I do so because they are very well made and well priced to boot. I have bought them as an employee for a large, global company and now I buy them as an individual shop owner as well. I can tell you without hesitation that they have always been of good quality.

In fact, I am getting ready to pull the trigger on what is for me, a fairly large amount of money's worth of tooling from them. As the sole person responsible for how this business spends its money and how that relates to its success or failure, I would not do so with frivolity or chance.

I do so because they are worth it.

Want numbers? Go scan YouTube or Instagram for any number of videos showing their tool holders throwing .0001" or less movement on a millionths clock.

Can a Shars tool holder do that? Maybe. Maybe one gets lucky with one. But can they do that repeatedly and reliably? Not that I have ever seen. And I have looked... I know I can count on my MariTool holders. I don't have to question it. One of the reasons is because Frank and Tom care. Bluntly, they give a shit. You cannot say that about Shars.

But my point about this is not about how a business spends its money. It is about trusting one's spindle taper ( inarguably one of the most important things on a machining center ) and subsequent modifications to a cheap, $30 item. My original equivalency regarding it, stands.

Just my two pfennig.
 
@fmari I ran across it somewhere looking for spindle stuff. My point is that the wind of opinion isn't always right.
 
@fmari I ran across it somewhere looking for spindle stuff. My point is that the wind of opinion isn't always right.

Just as a follow-up: I have spent many thousands of dollars on tooling from Maritool, and I have been very happy with all of it. Solid holders, collet holders, endmills, drills, even a drawbar force gage and CAT40 test bar, happy with all of them! I highly recommend them.
 
Just as a follow-up: I have spent many thousands of dollars on tooling from Maritool, and I have been very happy with all of it. Solid holders, collet holders, endmills, drills, even a drawbar force gage and CAT40 test bar, happy with all of them! I highly recommend them.

I'm feeling really stupid right now... Didn't know that MariTool had a drawbar force gage. I ordered mine with J&M a couple of weeks ago, with a higher price tag. No comments.
 
If it turns out that they really are a cause of problem, I'll replace them with maritool or something. However, some people say Maritool cat40 holders aren't any good either

I don't have too much experience with MariTool tool holders, but let me tell you that you are not going to find nothing better for that price. I've following MariTool from several years and never heard a single complain about them.
 
I took out the spindle and took it to Setco Cincinnatti. They reground the spindle at no charge to me, so I am pleased with that. Thanks for the suggestions.
 
I took out the spindle and took it to Setco Cincinnatti. They reground the spindle at no charge to me, so I am pleased with that. Thanks for the suggestions.

Have you got fresh bluing imprints? Any better? And at least some of what I saw looked like "lobing", where you get a cyclic bounce of the grinding wheel against the surface being ground. I hope that's gone.
 
I did, and it looks fine to me, It looks even across and around.

The report was

· Taper Contact 95% or greater (in spec)
· Drawbar pull 1,280 lbs (in spec)
· Aligning bar runout at 1” from face 0.0001” (in spec)
· Aligning bar runout at 12” from face 0.0006” (in spec)

The cyclic wear was probably from the tool wobble wear, rather than the original grind I would say. I don't know who to blame, whether it was my ignorance with taper care, or an original grind taper defect.
 
I don't have too much experience with MariTool tool holders, but let me tell you that you are not going to find nothing better for that price. I've following MariTool from several years and never heard a single complain about them.

I posted a criticism/complaint/observation a few weeks ago.. And Mr. Maritool posted right after saying I wasn't the only one that had had that particular
problem, and that he/they had made some tweaks to fix the problem.. Where else do you get that kind of service????
 








 
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