C I SE Use. Handling & Storage - advice

Newbie looking for a few pointers on getting the best out of a new to me purchase of a 24" cast Iron SE. More info' in the video link.

I have never owned or used a Camel Back SE and having read a good volume of the posts through this forum I remain a little confused as to what is 'best / 'most appropriate' for my SE.

Q1: It is fitted with three steel dome headed 'rivits' on two of the three flats over the Camel Back - such that it sits on these heads when inverted. My understanding is that these are the 'resting points' for storage ? In which case am I to assume that the SE should be stored inverted when not in use and not sat on its working face in its felt lined wooden cover ?

Q2: There are no 'heat insulated' handles - so whats the correct way to handle it to print the scraping surfaces ? Admittedly Im holding it for perhaps half a minute so would doubt it would make any significant difference to the printing with heat pick up from my hands ?

Q3: The working surface scraped finish is very fine (far beyond my skill level) and the depths of the scrapes is very limited - I will try and get a measurement later this week - my guess 0.0001" based on my own work being around 0.0003 to 4". As such getting anything like a decent print is taking my a lot of practice in getting a thin film of ink over the surface - is this typical for a SE scrape ?

Looking forward to your advice.

Mat

YouTube vid - Elliot 14 S Update 1 3 - YouTube

Lurk said:

Newbie looking for a few pointers on getting the best out of a new to me purchase of a 24" cast Iron SE. More info' in the video link.

I have never owned or used a Camel Back SE and having read a good volume of the posts through this forum I remain a little confused as to what is 'best / 'most appropriate' for my SE.

Q1: It is fitted with three steel dome headed 'rivits' on two of the three flats over the Camel Back - such that it sits on these heads when inverted. My understanding is that these are the 'resting points' for storage ? In which case am I to assume that the SE should be stored inverted when not in use and not sat on its working face in its felt lined wooden cover ?

Q2: There are no 'heat insulated' handles - so whats the correct way to handle it to print the scraping surfaces ? Admittedly Im holding it for perhaps half a minute so would doubt it would make any significant difference to the printing with heat pick up from my hands ?

Q3: The working surface scraped finish is very fine (far beyond my skill level) and the depths of the scrapes is very limited - I will try and get a measurement later this week - my guess 0.0001" based on my own work being around 0.0003 to 4". As such getting anything like a decent print is taking my a lot of practice in getting a thin film of ink over the surface - is this typical for a SE scrape ?

Looking forward to your advice.

Mat

YouTube vid - Elliot 14 S Update 1 3 - YouTube

Click to expand...

Nice looking camel back, good and deep.
My 2c

Q1) I like those rivits, a three point mount if you want to indicate to a reference.
Store the SE working flat on the plate, or if theres enough room you can screw an eye into the end and hang it up, perhaps just put a strap through it and hang it up. Store on the 3 points when youre working with it.

Q2) "There are no 'heat insulated' handles". Good! lol .. Hold the SE as near the ends as you can and for as short a time as you can. 10 seconds should be more than enough time to print that ram surface with a reasonable film of blue. Dont hold it in the middle and be conscious of how much skin youve in contact with the SE. This video gives you an idea of how much it can move if you handle it full retard.
When in doubt check for yourself, builds a confidence and a level of understanding.

Q3) Ironically, lack of depth in the SE scrapings might be a sign that it hasnt been scraped that well (chicken scratched) or is just a little worn and stoned out. Its a contentious subject but I like to scrape a reference pretty deep in general, a good 0.0005+ normally, im in good company on this point. This way bluing is easy and the SE wont suck down to the plate on moderate blue. Dont be sucked into the uber thin blue is the way to go thing, you cant see it you cant scrape it.
If you want to get an idea of where your thinly scraped SE is right clean the plate off, lightly blue the SE and wipe down to dull even haze, place the SE working face down on the plate and rub around (holding at the ends ) for 10 or so seconds. Flip it back over and see the shiners. These are your actual bearing points.
Then scrape it properly lol

All up I think youre doing a pretty good job for someone whos just out the gate. It looks from the prints your getting youve some depth. Good job, keep going

Thanks for the info' - like the phrase handling it 'Full Retard' thats going to sick :-)

Glad I had the sense to leave it overnight to come down to the same temp as the stone - it certainly gave a better print the next morning.
I will try the shiny spots treatment on the SE against the granite and see what it shows up.

'As someone who's 'just out the gate' Im happy with progress and Im getting faster as I gain confidence in where to scrape and how many scrapes between prints.
Thanks again for the info & video link.
All the best Mat

I wish all came backs were made like that where you have the support points like that on the top.

As far as storage-hanging is one way, but you will want to drill and tap in the end so you can have it hang straight up/down.

Or-if you can afford the space on your granite-leave it there, this is what I do.

That Windley mirrors the pattern of my Windley 48" but my own Windley 24" is completely different. Looks like it's in excellent condition.

Im afraid hanging it is out of the question (no space on the walls and it looks like it would be good head banger ...

I was thinking wooden box and shelf - but should it stand on its working face or inverted or even on its side ?

Maybe we should put a 'Vintage Windley owners & Users Club' together - Ive a few ideas for the location of the AGM :-)

I appreciate these types of threads and You Tube shows as it passes on the knowledge.

I also like that straightedge (SE). A couple of thoughts or tips on the bluing and scraping.

When he first set the SE on the plate you hear a noise like sand being smashed on concrete. That is some dirt between the plate and SE. I know he was filming but I would suggest cleaning the plate and SE and wipe with your hands to "feel" the dirt. I would blue the plate corner to corner too as that way the SE is always on the plate and no chance to get false readings moving it off and back on the plate. Think about the SE being concave and high on the ends. As you move it on the shorter plate you get false reads.

Also when scraping, look at the SE and see where more blue is rubbed off as this will show you where it is high. If your scraping a SE on a plate, blue it up and look at the SE and the plate as I said where more blue rubs off the plate that helps you see where the higher spots on the SE are.

Also on his first bluing you can see the unworn ridges blue up first where the ram never wore. I always say measure those ridges and cut them off first. It appears to me as he blues up that surface he must be pulling the SE in and out the 1" (or so) width and the way is getting concave. If you look closely at the color of the bluing you will see the edges are darker then the middle. I say the color changes on different heights of bluing and it is obvious the edges that never wore are a darker or almost black compared to the blue in the worn areas.

The handscraping looks good, and he is following the RCK rules 1 & 2. I am not claiming I invented the technique, but I have been preaching it's use for years. 1. Individual scrape marks in diagonal lines and 2. individual lines separated by a gap of at least 1/8" so the scraping has a checkerboard look. Also my friend and student Jan Sverre Haugjord who has dozens of You Tube shows on scraping. Here is some of them. Schaublin SV52 milling machine, column rear ways, left side - YouTube
Schaublin SV52 11�813 1 - YouTube

He is till learning and uses a bit to much bluing. I teach use more in beginning and less as you go along. You can spend hours watching him scrape his Myford Grinder and his Schaublin SV52 milling machine, surface plate and straight-edges.

He is also the host-coordinator of the Scandinavia classes I start teaching next month in April. He also has purchased a couple of dozetraight-edges at a auction in Sweeden, if anyone over there needs one, I'm sure he would give you a deal. Rich

I have discovered that if your short of space hanging SE's is the best way. But they need to be hung from an eyebolt with the hole drilled and tapped at the center of mass and gravity on one end. You lay the SE on a round shaft and find the weight balance point width wise and mark that spot. find the thickest mass near there and drill the 1/4 or 3/8 hole. I've told this story before, about finding SE's that were stored and unused that way for over 40 years at Honeywell when I taught a class with member Dresden and when we checked them they were perfect. Rich

One problem that I see in his youtube videos, is his stance. The way
he is bent over he will have sciatica in no time at all.

I think he should elevate his work so he doesn't have to bend over.

I painted a large sign and I had to bend 90 degrees. With just the
weight of the brush and my trunk, I had sciatica the next day and
it lasted for a year. Boy is it painful.

Paul

I also like to use a scissors type table or crib up the work to bench height. But I have also had to learn to scrape vertically on VTL columns, scrape the underside of ways looking into a mirror under the work if the machine is to heavy to turn over. If your talking about Jan's shop it's a small little workshop behind his home and it is more then crowded. Many of those machines were ground on way grinders, but us poor folk can't afford them Rich