Clausing colchester 15 lathe -stuck quill lock in tail stock - help needed

Jon G Houston · Jul 23, 2016

I'm new to the site. Just begun the restoration of a model 8301, 15-50 Colchester lathe built in 1974. The tail stock quill will not fully retract and trying to disassemble the quill lock. Trying to release the quill lock key, no luck so far so I can't get the lock shaft out of the TS housing. Hopefully the parts diagram and photo are properly attached here. The lock shaft rotation is so stiff I have to use a dead blow to move it! I have the lock handle at ~45 degrees from vertical to release the key. Tapping hard on the opposite side from the handle. No real movement. Putting a drift in the quill slot and tapping suggests the key is solidly in place.
Thoughts? Thanks in advance
Jon

Richard King · Jul 23, 2016

It looks like the locking handle has a cam cut into it and the key is above the handle. Was there a set screw in the hole we can see in the photo? On the drawing there looks like a set screw under the handle, but it's so blurry I can see what that is? It looks like the quill must be out before you can get the key out. Have to push it up and out of the quill hole before you can get the cam shaft out. Unlock on the handle would be backward or handle knob facing backward.

I would squirt penetrating oil (not wd-40) in there and tap the parts with a brass hammer for a few days. Then get a steel shaft or tube a little smaller then the quill and set the quill on the face or flat side of the front and drive out the quill from the back. I am assuming you have the feed screw and it's cap off the back of the rear of the TS housing. Can you see a keyway in the quill? Also squirt that with end with penetrating oil. But drive the quill down or find a friend with an arbor press. The key is patience and using the penetrating oil for days and tapping with the brass hammer to get the penetration. Don't use a punch or drift to hammer on the quill as that will swedge the quill or keyway. Rich

PS: This is a guess as it's been several years since I worked on one. You might be better asking this in the Clausing forum.

Tyrone Shoelaces · Jul 23, 2016

Looks like the quill locking lever is cam operated device that forces a key upwards into contact with the keyway in the quill. That's not a style of lock you see very often.

Rich is right in the respect of the locking lever, normally forward towards the headstock locks the quill and rear wards towards the end of the bed unlocks the quill. I think he's also correct in saying you need the quill out before you can remove the locking device. Normally a quill will come out in the forwards direction, towards the headstock. You need to remove the end cap at the rear of the tailstock and using the hand wheel wind out the whole screw
and hand wheel assembly first. Then using a piece of hard wood drive out the quill. I used to keep old, broken sledgehammer shafts for this purpose.

Regards Tyrone.

iwananew10K · Jul 23, 2016

if it is like the "clone" I had the quill is not slotted to the ends and is captured by the key...IOW the quill will not come out until the key does.

Not much help, I know.

Tyrone Shoelaces · Jul 23, 2016

iwananew10K said:
if it is like the "clone" I had the quill is not slotted to the ends and is captured by the key...IOW the quill will not come out until the key does.

Not much help, I know.

Mm, that would complicate matters. Running the keyway out at the rear end of the quill would be a sensible way to proceed. Having said that not all designers make sensible decisions. Pretty pointless to have a key way that's stopped at both ends,

The handwheel and housing stills needs to be removed to give us a proper idea of what's going on in there.

Regards Tyrone.

Jon G Houston · Jul 24, 2016

Richard,
Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. There is a cap screw in the underside of the locking shaft. It only limits overturning the shaft by bumping into casting. The quill slot stops ~1/2" from the front and looking into the rear ( yes hand wheel and lead screw all,removed) I cannot see a slot at the back of the quill. Yes if I could get the quill out - the key would drop away! But it looks like the design requires the key to be released to pull the quill. Yes I am handling the quill careful. I'll Mic it today to check it for out of round. I am now using penetrating oil! Thanks.

Jon G Houston · Jul 24, 2016

Tyrone Shoelaces said:
Looks like the quill locking lever is cam operated device that forces a key upwards into contact with the keyway in the quill. That's not a style of lock you see very often.
Normally a quill will come out in the forwards direction, towards the headstock. Then using a piece of hard wood drive out the quill. I used to keep old, broken sledgehammer shafts for this purpose.
Regards Tyrone.

Thanks Tyrone-
Please see the response to Richard below. Looking into the back of the TS housing I cannot see a continuation of the quill slot. A local resource has suggested the key will drop away from the eccentric shaft in the relaxed position and with the TS upside-down. I'm still stuck.

Jon G Houston · Jul 24, 2016

iwananew10K said:
if it is like the "clone" I had the quill is not slotted to the ends and is captured by the key...IOW the quill will not come out until the key does.

Not much help, I know.

Thanks Iwananew
My TS looks like what you suggest- the quill slot does not continue the full length of the quill. I will keep working it. My position of last resort is the mill up the shaft through the hole and remake the shaft and key. Not my preferred option.

Heavey Metal · Jul 24, 2016

Remove the quill lock handle

Remove the eccentric........

Tyrone Shoelaces · Jul 24, 2016

I really don't like exploded drawings. I much prefer a proper assembly drawing so you can see everything in it's proper place. Is that little screw positioned just under the lever in the exploded drawing holding the locking cam shaft in place ?

Regards Tyrone.

Jon G Houston · Jul 24, 2016

Tyrone Shoelaces said:
Pretty pointless to have a key way that's stopped at both ends,The handwheel stills needs to be removed.

Regards Tyrone.

Thanks Tyrone - again.
The back of the TS has been fully disassembled. As mentioned in a previous post the keyway does not appear to continue to the rearward end of the quill.
-again not a preferred approach I could extend the quill slot 1/2" to reach the front of the quill and then attempt to drive it rearward.
I will continue to soak the lock shaft with pen. Oil and see if I can get it free.
Thanks
Jon

Jon G Houston · Jul 24, 2016

Richard King said:
You might be better asking this in the Clausing forum.

Richard
Where is the Clausing forum? I didn't see it. I did post in the European lathe forum.

Tyrone Shoelaces · Jul 24, 2016

Jon G Houston said:
Thanks Tyrone - again.
The back of the TS has been fully disassembled. As mentioned in a previous post the keyway does not appear to continue to the rearward end of the quill.
-again not a preferred approach I could extend the quill slot 1/2" to reach the front of the quill and then attempt to drive it rearward.
I will continue to soak the lock shaft with pen. Oil and see if I can get it free.
Thanks
Jon

If all else fails filing a little flat on the bottom of the quill so as to continue the keyway effect would get you out of jail. There ought to be an easier way though.

Regards Tyrone.

Clive603 · Jul 24, 2016

I think Richard is referring to the Yahoo Group for Colchester lathes. Be worth signing up to see if anyone has a minimally destructive solution.

Having written up a cunning and excessively complicated way to possibly drift the thing down I took another look at my copy of the manual and concluded that your idea of extending the keyway to the front of the quill and pushing the quill out the back is the right way to go. If the rear opening is too small for the quill to pass through its easy enough to bore out and re-make the thrust plate.

With the quill out of the way grabbing the thing with long nose pliers and wiggling shoud eventually get enough lubrication in to shift the horrible thing.

Clive

iwananew10K · Jul 24, 2016

Keep in mind mine was a clone...but the key was really just a disc with a protrusion...the screw on the bottom was the keeper for the lock handle/eccentric...remove the screw,pull out handle/eccentric...and the key falls out the round hole on bottom...quill slides out front.

Of course things are never that easy in practice but that was the jist.

IIRC there was a sweet spot for pulling the handle out...the General section will prolly get the attention of other Clausing owners to be sure.

Tyrone Shoelaces · Jul 24, 2016

iwananew10K said:
Keep in mind mine was a clone...but the key was really just a disc with a protrusion...the screw on the bottom was the keeper for the lock handle/eccentric...remove the screw,pull out handle/eccentric...and the key falls out the round hole on bottom...quill slides out front.

Of course things are never that easy in practice but that was the jist.

IIRC there was a sweet spot for pulling the handle out...the General section will prolly get the attention of other Clausing owners to be sure.

If the drawing is correct that's what should happen.

Regards Tyrone.

Richard King · Jul 24, 2016

I thought we had a Clausing forum...guess not...? Was it ever loose since you owned it? I googled clausing clone and saw Jet has one. It shows a hole in the casting on the other side of the TS housing. Do you have one too? Get the cam loose and use a smaller shaft and use a 5 pound ball peen and see if you can tap it out.

http://content.jettools.com/assets/manuals/321810_man_EN.pdf

JST · Jul 24, 2016

Those designs where a piece like that key is supposed to be free and to "fall away" when loosened are heck if it is stuck , even just a little bit stuck, because you can't really reach them..

I think if it were me, I would try to get a wedge down that keyway. Pull the lever to the released position, and work the wedge to get the key to move.

The thing had to be "put-together-able", so it cannot be a "blivet". Some position of the ram, key, and lever has to allow EITHER the ram to be removed, OR the lever to be removed and then the key to be removed. Looks as if there may be a retainer on the lever shaft that needs to be removed, and then the lever and shaft may come out, depending on how the key and cam are made.

If you loosen and drive down the key with a wedge, you should be able to loosen the ram until it moves easily, and then can decide if it is able to come out the front with the key in place.

Makes more sense that it could, since the cam and key have to be set up with extra motion to be sure to lock. So the key may not clear the shaft until at max upward motion, which likely does not happen until the ram is out.

Might be considerably more "fun" if the key was partly sheared at some point in the past, and consequently is distorted to where it jams............

iwananew10K · Jul 24, 2016

I was reluctant to mention it since mine was a clone but the quill key way on mine was ramped at the end so once the eccentric was out sliding the quill forward pushed the key down.

Richard King · Jul 24, 2016

If it is stuck and it won't move, mill the keyway longer on the end sticking out. Then press it out the other end. Rich

Clausing colchester 15 lathe -stuck quill lock in tail stock - help needed

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