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Colchester 13 Noise help

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Lundstrom9374

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Aug 30, 2017
I just bought and got running a Clausing Colchester 13" it the flat head so i think its the mk2? I didn't see it run before I bought it, so I took a chance and now I think it's worn out. The head stock is very noisy, it has a knock that isn't bad in the lower rpms but once I flip the upper left handle to the left it sounds like your going up a roller coaster track. It sounds like it's coming from the input shaft or the second shaft.

I ran the lathe with the shifter on the front in between gears, then ran it with the upper handles in every configuration and found it's the gears that go with the left handle in the left configuration. Inside everything looks good no wear and I changed the oil before running it. I did find some play in the v belt hub when I took off the belts and push/pulled on the hub. I then took off the end of the hub and saw there is some play between the bearing and the snap ring that holds the hub in place. Also there is play in the shaft in and out. I didn't have a dial handy to measure the play.

I added some pictures and a video of it running in different speeds and configurations with the front shifter between gears so the output shaft isn't spinning. Any help figuring out what the cause of the noise and fixing it would be great. I hope I didn't just buy a junk lathe.

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
Clausing Colchester Noise. - YouTube

Thanks,
Justin
 
How clunky, spur gears are always going to be a little noisey but thats much worse than I expected, is it just as bad under load?
 
Hi Justin,

It's hard to tell in most of the video, because of the focal area of the camera, if the spindle was turning. It was, indeed, turning at the first of the video, but it looks like it wasn't turning in some of the gear selections. Correct me if I am wrong.

If this is the case, it sounds like the selector at the front has not fully engaged the gearing, and we are listening to the tips of the teeth hitting each other.

Brian
 
Does it have OIL ? I hope it does not. If it does, either give it back or strip the headstock.
 
The gears look great in the photos. There's some flank wear barely more than polishing from run-in.. The shifters look good but without wiggling them and watching the oil bead in and out of the clearances it's hard to determine wear. I can't note anything significant from the few shift collars I can see or the dog portion of the shafts they mate with. Besides, I didn't gear gear noise in the video. I heard characteristic bearing noise.

It looks like no other shafts turn with the back left shifter in neutral. What does it sound like with that lever in neutral and the motor running idle? The bearing noise seems to follow the motor RPM accel and decel. regardless of other shifter positions. I thing it's the input shaft pulley bearing. You have the motor on a VFD? With the top cover off, dial the RPM down to minimize slung oil and watch/listen to the transmission in different gears

Focus on what you hear. Your directional hearing will pinpoint the source if you listen with your eyes closed. When you open your eyes you'll be looking right at the source of the noise. That's how our hunter-gatherer ancestors spotted adorable edible creatures in the tall grass. The talent is still in our genes if we'd learn to use it.

At a wild guess and wishing I could hear it in person, I'd say the problem was in the input shaft probably the outer bearing next to the pulley. Easy item to check. Looks to me like that shaft would come out after removing the shifter and the input pulley and unbolting the the bearing retainer plate. My guess is the shaft would pull straight out - but check the manual IPD. With the shaft and mounted gears in your hand you can spin the bearings and spy into the races. They should be smooth and glossy. If they look like the face of the moon,there's your problem.

BTW, my hat's off to you, Mr. Lundstrom. You wrote a very clear problem description well supported with images and video. Others would do well to emulate your presentation technique.
 
At a wild guess and wishing I could hear it in person, I'd say the problem was in the input shaft probably the outer bearing next to the pulley.

I'd say that's a distinct possibility but very much doubt the problem is limited to that. I took apart a couple of those lathes, they're very popular in RSA and I have never seen a input shaft bearing damaged. Worn, yes. The most common problem I saw on those machines was front spindle bearing with disintegrated phenolic cage ( wrong oil ? age ? ) and same badly worn from gearbox rubbish. That's typical for lathes with small headstocks. Bearings are available and quite cheap and I believe there is an SKF functionally equivalent. These lathes ( Harrisons, too ) would've given much better service if the bearings would've been separately lubricated. One can have the bearing races re-ground and new rollers/cage made but it's going to cost a bundle.
 
put the forward/reverse feeds lever in neutral, this will stop the feed /thread box turning. Remove the end cover and inspect the gears on the banjo for mesh and lubrication. listen to each bearing in turn with the lathe running, using a long screwdriver with the handle placed to your ear and the point on the bearing housing. Colchester head stocks do tend to be on the noisy side, but you have noise only in certain gears/bearings. This should not be hard to find.
Phil
 
Regardless of diagnosis, it's clear that while usable for the moment the lathe headstock has to come apart for bearing replacement. Whether those very expensive spindle bearings require replacement as well is an open question but I suggest you identify and source them at first opportunity. Diligent shopping can lead to good spindle bearings of the proper class at lower than expected prices.

Here's a push in the right direction:

Engine Lathe Headstock Rebuild / Spindle Bearing Replacement - YouTube

The next question is whether the machine warrants the repairs and their cost. And whether you can return the machine for full refund if things go badly. Don't rule out a partial refund to defray the cost of spindle bearings.

However, that lathe if otherwise in good operable condition is well worth a little fuss and TLC. I foresee deeper investigation and a few judgement calls. Good luck.
 
Have you checked the change gears to see if they're not meshing too tight and the headstock drive pulley to see if it's come loose?. It sounds a bit like it is, four Colchester Bantam lathes of similar vintage, spread amongst three owners all had a loose drive pulley as they rely on a retaining bolt and washer on the end of the shaft to stop the pulley falling off but have no grub screws. The pulley noise on my lathe seemed to be speed dependent and varied a lot depending on what gear it was in. I originally thought I had damaged gears in the headstock at certain ratios.

The overall noise level of the lathe was cut by about half by fixing the pulley and by setting the gap of the change gears using some thin mylar plastic sheet between the gears to ensure a small gap in the teeth. You can hear the unrepaired pulley noise at the 1:00 minute mark here when running at low RPM:


The cast iron headstock drive V pulley was flogged out and had been drilled by previous owners and two 8mm bolts and two grub screws fitted as well as several shims fitted. The result was an off centre, loose pulley that rocked on several points per revolution. The original Woodruff key was destroyed and I was lucky enough to have a silicon carbide stone for the Dremel the same diameter and hand ground the key seat on the shaft a bit deeper and wider. I then made a new key to suit and then loctited a new steel sleeve in. Cutting the sleeve groove by hand using the lathe like a manual shaper with a modified boring bar was a real pain because I tried to make it a blind groove instead of a full length groove.
 
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Keep in mind that the lathe is nice and quiet in some speeds, which strongly argues against anything to do with the input sheave or its shaft's bearings. It sounds to my ear like one of the gears has a wallowed-out spline, and it rattles around.
 
Keep in mind that the lathe is nice and quiet in some speeds, which strongly argues against anything to do with the input sheave or its shaft's bearings. It sounds to my ear like one of the gears has a wallowed-out spline, and it rattles around.

That was the interesting thing with my lathe: the noise varied greatly with the speed of the spindle selected. I can only speculate that the gearbox provided more loading at higher speeds that affected the amount of noise generated by the pulley. I can't tell from the narrow field of the last half of the original poster's video which sections of the lathe he's disabled: wider view of the lathe other than the top of the headstock would be much more useful for diagnosing the fault but he may have two sources of noise depending on what he was doing.
 
Lundstrom: Do you have a copy of the service and parts manual for this lathe? I think they are available from FDK3 in Houston, Texas. Fdk3 is a parts and service dealer for Colchester and Harrison lathes.

JH
 
Zombie thread here...but I have the exact same model lathe that's making pretty much the exact same noise. I see Lundstrom here hasn't posted in several years, but i'm asking in vain anyways to see if the exact cause of this noise was ever determined...
 
First ,take off the lid ,and carefully inspect the gears......one fault Ive noticed with these lathes is the selectors at the back dont necessarily locate gears in line ,resulting in half contact wear pattern in extreme cases.......I used to spend hours stoning off the high edge on meshing gears so that corrected position didnt result in high point contact and scoring.
 
If the gears look OK,then check out the v belt drive.....the input pulley into the head and any clutch mechanism may be loose on the shaft ..........often a simple cure for noise is to remove one of the dual V belts ,and run with one belt.
 
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