Question on order of operations for cleaning and painting

Domodude17 · Sep 11, 2017

Picked up a south bend 9a a while back, and it hasn't run in a number of years, so i've been taking it apart and cleaning everything. For paint, I have an Alkyd Enamel machine paint from tractor supply.

As for order, I have been degreasing parts and cleaning them. I'd then dry them, and give them a coat of WD-40 to prevent rust until I can get to painting. Prior to painting, i've been wiping them down with mineral spirits, followed by acetone. Does that seem like a good order of operations for painting? I am not sure if the mineral spirits are necessary, but I suppose they can't hurt.

For the larger pieces that I can't fit in my ultrasonic, will electrolysis remove grease/grime and paint?

Thanks!

bmikkalson · Sep 11, 2017

That sounds good, if you can get the hardner at tractor supply for the paint. Other wise it dries slooow. I used the same stuff on my mill and it is pretty durable.

Forrest Addy · Sep 12, 2017

You're on the right track but what condition is the lathe in? Is it in new and unused condition? Some wear? Near the end of its useful life? Shouldn't inspect, investigate, research, repair, replace, recondition, fix, detail,, align, recondition and similar activities occur somewhere between "clean" and "paint."

This is a machine tool where function is far more important than mere appearance. If all you're interested in is a pretty lathe fine but its faults will remain un-remedied. While you have it apart for cleaning, I would think that a thorough inspection and recondition of parts and assemblies to the abilities of your resources would be a timely endeavor.

All that counts In the final analysis is the good work your lathe generates. Pretty and shiny for its own sake is for folks who care more about impressing people they'd never invite for dinner and causing excited comment from the vapid and jaded than actually accomplishing a practical task leading to the solution of a problem..

rons · Sep 12, 2017

The WD-40/mineral spirits operation is a waste.

Grease painted parts in a electrolysis solution? You contaminate the solution.

Not sure about the reference to what is being called a hardener. If it is really an accelerator then it is probably optional. Drying time and curing time are different things. I use paint that fully cures up to 1 week or more depending on temperature.

Spray application is the way to go.

Street · Sep 12, 2017

Functions is just as important as shiney paint...

When you clean parts if they are dry completely dry ( air blow dry) and stored in a dry environment a couple of days or so won't make them rust without any oil, even up to a week.
If the environment is humid just oil the critical parts bearing ways very lightly with a oil soaked rag.
A slight tinge after a week won't hurt the bond of the paint as its mainly a casting with rough surfaces, oily castings will hurt paint bond so no oil is better than oil in this case.
A hardener type paint is a much better paint system than air dry it will set harder have higher gloss and resist oil and grease a whole lot better.

A paint job won't make a tool in bad condition any better,

Spray with a proper gravity feed two pack HVLP gun ( for two pack paint ) as watch your pressures and how the paint flows in the sunlight will tell you a lot if anything needs correcting such as thinning the mix or if its too thin already and start again.
Do a trial patch to sort of this first on something not so important.

edit just remember most if not all hardener or what is referred to as two pack has isocyanate in it which means its dangerous to health use a mask ,well ventilated area, seperate air supply is the ultimate thing to have.

Clean the gun out promptly with two pack as it can set in the gun, watch that.
Best of luck you have to start somewhere.

AlexO · Sep 12, 2017

Domodude17 said:
Picked up a south bend 9a a while back, and it hasn't run in a number of years, so i've been taking it apart and cleaning everything. For paint, I have an Alkyd Enamel machine paint from tractor supply.

As for order, I have been degreasing parts and cleaning them. I'd then dry them, and give them a coat of WD-40 to prevent rust until I can get to painting. Prior to painting, i've been wiping them down with mineral spirits, followed by acetone. Does that seem like a good order of operations for painting? I am not sure if the mineral spirits are necessary, but I suppose they can't hurt.

For the larger pieces that I can't fit in my ultrasonic, will electrolysis remove grease/grime and paint?

Thanks!

After cleaning, whichever way you do it, I would avoid oiling the surfs. I would paint with an enamel oil paint ( the word alkyd confuses me )and a good formulation is touch dry in around 4-6 hours. I would also paint by brush with all the brush strokes in the same direction and with some pressure. This is not going to look nice and it won't be thick enough to "cover" but once touch dry, say 12 hours, I'd use a foam roller - two thinnish layers. I wouldn't use a primer. An oil based enamel will stick to metal and even ignore a tiny amount of oil. I usually apply a 3rd coat of similar enamel but in an eggshell formulation after 2-3 days. Do not start with eggshell - it'll take ages to dry.

I painted A LOT of equipment.

AlexO · Sep 12, 2017

Street said:
Functions is just as important as shiney paint...

A hardener type paint is a much better paint system than air dry it will set harder have higher gloss and resist oil and grease a whole lot better.

Not AT ALL. 2k paints ( and I use the real ones

) need very good prep or will have major adhesion issues. Too glossy is not good for a machine tool - doesn't look right and shows every imperfection. They're MUCH more vulnerable to sharp dings/scratches than oils and hard to re-touch if at all possible.

Domodude17 · Sep 12, 2017

The machine had sat for who knows how many years, so everything was gummed up. I figured by running the lathe I was more liable to cause damage than anything else, so it had to come apart for cleaning. And might as well paint it while it's apart. Would using a degreaser, rinsing the part, and drying with a heat gun be a good method? If i'm not doing anything to prevent rust other than drying the parts prior to painting, I imagine I shouldn't wait long to paint then?

Forrest Addy · Sep 12, 2017

If you use a water rinse tip a little washing soda (sodium carbonate) in the solution. This acts to passivate the iron surface retarding rust formation.

Think seriously about fixing and repairing while it's apart. No better time than after the first coat on the separate parts.

AlexO · Sep 12, 2017

Forrest Addy said:
If you use a water rinse tip a little washing soda (sodium carbonate) in the solution. This acts to passivate the iron surface retarding rust formation.

Excellent advice.

AlexO · Sep 12, 2017

Domodude17 said:
The machine had sat for who knows how many years, so everything was gummed up. I figured by running the lathe I was more liable to cause damage than anything else, so it had to come apart for cleaning. And might as well paint it while it's apart. Would using a degreaser, rinsing the part, and drying with a heat gun be a good method? If i'm not doing anything to prevent rust other than drying the parts prior to painting, I imagine I shouldn't wait long to paint then?

If you paint with an oil paint a tiny bit of rust is nothing to worry about and the paint keys wonderfully to it.

Domodude17 · Sep 12, 2017

Forrest Addy said:
If you use a water rinse tip a little washing soda (sodium carbonate) in the solution. This acts to passivate the iron surface retarding rust formation.

Think seriously about fixing and repairing while it's apart. No better time than after the first coat on the separate parts.

Thats a great tip, thanks! I'm trying to find everything I can that is broken or messed up in some way so that I can fix it, although I imagine some issues won't rear their head until I actually run the thing.

For the first couple parts I did, I washed them with degreaser, rinsed them, and then gave them the wipe down with WD-40. When it was time to paint, I used acetone to wipe them off, and they didn't feel oily or grimy to the touch, so I went ahead and painted them. Some of the paint has flaked off in a couple small spots, is that to be expected or is it resulting from poor surface preparation?

AlexO · Sep 12, 2017

Domodude17 said:
Some of the paint has flaked off in a couple small spots, is that to be expected or is it resulting from poor surface preparation?

That should not happen and it's a major irritation in painting machinery. CI is porous and oil will keep seeping out of it for ages. Read my post, do exactly that i.e. paint a thin, hard brushed 1st layer and all will be OK. An oil based enamel will stick hard to the metal and will incorporate some small amount of lubrication oil - contaminant. The golden way is to make your own primer out of white/red lead mixed with boiled linseed. You'll need a pick-axe to take that one off after a few months.

Domodude17 · Sep 12, 2017

That is what I did. It wasn't a ton of spots, just a couple small spots that probably need touched up that got peeled off during reassembly. The paint had been drying for about 2 days (I used hardener, so it was dry to the touch within 12 hours or so. I might just have to be more careful and wait a week or two for things to continue to harden up before reassembly.

AlexO · Sep 12, 2017

AlexO said:
That should not happen and it's a major irritation in painting machinery. CI is porous and oil will keep seeping out of it for ages. Read my post, do exactly that i.e. paint a thin, hard brushed 1st layer and all will be OK. An oil based enamel will stick hard to the metal and will incorporate some small amount of lubrication oil - contaminant. The golden way is to make your own primer out of white/red lead mixed with boiled linseed. You'll need a pick-axe to take that one off after a few months.

I use acetone to clean the spots when I pick up that sort of problem. It seems to work better than almost anything else. Wipe with acetone and immediately paint.

rons · Sep 15, 2017

AlexO said:
Not AT ALL. 2k paints ( and I use the real ones ) need very good prep or will have major adhesion issues. Too glossy is not good for a machine tool - doesn't look right and shows every imperfection. They're MUCH more vulnerable to sharp dings/scratches than oils and hard to re-touch if at all possible.

No. Amateur painters even with the best spray gun are going to get a orange peel finish. You can reverse think what contributes to peel and work that into the paint application. Then you get the texture similar to what is on refrigerator doors.

The not glossy finish is usually obtained when the average monkey wipes the finish down for the end of day cleaning. Using the same rag he was using all day to wipe away scarf.

There is nothing wrong with a glossy finish on parts of a machine that does not get residue from cutting operations. (You wouldn't think that a chip tray is going to stay glossy too long).

AlexO · Sep 15, 2017

rons said:
No. Amateur painters even with the best spray gun are going to get a orange peel finish. You can reverse think what contributes to peel and work that into the paint application. Then you get the texture similar to what is on refrigerator doors.

The not glossy finish is usually obtained when the average monkey wipes the finish down for the end of day cleaning. Using the same rag he was using all day to wipe away scarf.

There is nothing wrong with a glossy finish on parts of a machine that does not get residue from cutting operations. (You wouldn't think that a chip tray is going to stay glossy too long).

Well, the advantage and in my opinion the popularity of 2k paints is due in part to being able to sandpaper any orange peel within a couple of hours and then recoat and then sand and then re-coat...etc. That means orange peel is not an issue, not for small surfaces anyway. Bit different if you spray a car but then again, you can do something about it. Gloss, is a different story - I like to see a sort of uniform semi-gloss which matches ALL new machine tools I have ever seen. But tastes vary. Older formulations of eggshell enamel did that out of the can. Newer formulations don't work that well. They are very slow to fully dry ( 6 months or so ) and the pigment density is not what it used to be. Last one comes from the manufacturers trying to supply any color under the Sun.

JST · Sep 15, 2017

You want to degrease? Nothing better than Purple cleaner. And, since it is lye based, it helps prevent rust a bit. Paint soon after cleaning. If you can't paint, don't clean if the environment promotes rust. Hot air drying prevents rust, too.

Fixing is definitely more important than paint. Fix, then prep and paint if you want. Most machines in the shop here are painted several shades of gray because parts were painted at different times. But they work well.

Nothing WRONG with nice paint, but homeshop folks usually spend a lot more time on perfect paint than on fixing, alignment or more deeply involved things like scraping in to something like factory specs. If they fix etc at all. A "Rustoleum restoration" is not helpful except for selling the thing.

Madis Reivik · Sep 16, 2017

Please be more precise about adding washing soda to rinsing water. Excellent advice but I'm always looking for "recipe".
So how much per litre or gallon ?

About the paints - on castings I would use thixotropic paints, they tend to self-level. Also, I have used a perfect one component paint Teknosynt which was hard as hell and not available from grocery store

I try to find the type but it is probably not available in USA.
2-component is not mandatory and especially for home use its quite impractical, you should weight the components cause excessive 1 or 2 component will mess things up. And mixing them is not so easy, one should mix-pour to other cup and remix to avoid unmixed "cup wall slime".

Drying - I would use a large trashbag and pump hot air inside. Or, air dehumidifier makes wonders, I have one unit temporary installed and outlet tube blows 0%RH air at 40deg. Works like wonder, water has no chance to remain

Forrest Addy · Sep 16, 2017

Washing soda solution? Not much, maybe a teaspoon per gallon. Just enough to get the Ph in the no-rust zone. Any basic salt. Ammonia even if you can handle the fumes.

Quick dry? A hot final rinse. The idea is to warm the part to encourage evaporation. Boiling hot is obviously effective but possibly extreme. 140 F is safer to handle. Blot off the rinse quickly and blow out the holes and passages.

Question on order of operations for cleaning and painting

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