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Turcite alternatives
- Thread starter AlexO
- Start date
- Replies 75
- Views 25,123
Richard King
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2005
- Location
- Cottage Grove, MN 55016
Alex we discussed this a few years ago before you started posting I suppose. Most of the time new questions can be found by googling " your subject practical machinist.
I just Googled "Alternative to Turcite Rractical Machinis"t and a list came up. in the list was this.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...thing-other-than-turcite-wear-surface-301940/
Rich
I just Googled "Alternative to Turcite Rractical Machinis"t and a list came up. in the list was this.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...thing-other-than-turcite-wear-surface-301940/
Rich
Well, I don't know what "we" have discussed but the reason I asked here instead of just searching on Google is to get some first hand info, in particular direct experience. Also pros and cons, prices etc. All I see on the link you posted is one of those lengthy "discussions" about Moglice with a passing mention on Al Bronze. Not much substance in other words.
Richard King
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2005
- Location
- Cottage Grove, MN 55016
read the link as many PRO's offer advice on many alternatives. It took 1 minute to find it on Google. Always put Practical Machinist in the search title, many of these same subjects have been discussed dozens of times on here.
Seeing your new to the forum you can learn a lot from past posts. Don archives all of this, Thank You Don! Rich
Seeing your new to the forum you can learn a lot from past posts. Don archives all of this, Thank You Don! Rich
I DID read the link. Nothing of interest for me there. There is only one alternative to Turcite discussed - Moglice. I am not interested in Moglice. Moglice is unreliable crap.
Monarchist
Diamond
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2012
- Location
- Sol, Terra
Plastics are widely used, but so are illegal drugs. No interest in either, thanks.
Certain members of the Bronze family were used for long years before any of the specialized plastics existed and have proven credentials. Aluminium Bronze, worse NICKEL Aluminium bronze one needs to be careful as to where used and how lubricated. They are notorious for imposing more wear on "the other guy" than they exhibit as wear.
Whether metal is less-costly for either the material or the labour than glued-on plastic, I leave to others. ANY of them are likely to be impacted more by labour costs then materials cost.
Meanwhile, a downside is that attaching Bronze is not always as easy as gluing-on plastic. An upside that a Bronze application can be much thinner overall. electroplated on, even, and also in serious thicknesses where that is needed.
Brass I would not recommend at all for anything but data plates, decorative insignia on uniforms, and perhaps dinner bells - even C. O. Jones replacements.
What sort of dimensions, how much bearing area is there, and what target thickness do you have to sort to make the Deckel table again fit for its purpose?
Do you even have to do a build-up of material AT ALL?
Where in that link have you seen "MANY PRO's offer advice on MANY alternatives" ??????????????????? How many PROs ? How many ALTERNATIVES ????????
ewlsey
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2009
- Location
- Peoria, IL
Rulon is a popular way material here in the US.
I follow some Eastern European rebuilders who use teflon sheets held on with brass screws. I have no idea how well that works.
In the old days they used things like micarta or formica. I wouldn't bother with that when you can get a purpose made material like Turcite or Rulon.
I follow some Eastern European rebuilders who use teflon sheets held on with brass screws. I have no idea how well that works.
In the old days they used things like micarta or formica. I wouldn't bother with that when you can get a purpose made material like Turcite or Rulon.
Well, I don't mind paying for bronze but I mind paying an obscene amount for plastic.
Thank you - I think save for some other ideas popping up, I'll try bronze. I've seen some bronze wear pads being epoxied on some machinery a couple of years ago and they seem to have lasted and didn't come off. I think the epoxy was some sort of Loctatite.Can I route channels in Rulon ?
ewlsey
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2009
- Location
- Peoria, IL
Yes. Rulon is very similar to Turcite. It's a bronze embedded plastic, they call it "self lubricating". There are many grades of Rulon, 142 is made specifically for sliding ways.
Thank you. I'll give it a try.
Richard King
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2005
- Location
- Cottage Grove, MN 55016
Baloney in the link we talk about:
Moglice, Phenolic, Amco Bronze, Rulon, Nylatron and I believe I mention Steel.
Cash mentions Cast Iron. Pros are Cash, Other Brother, RC 99, Iron Smith (Chris German) I reference letter from Dave Biering of Tri star plastics who is an expert (engineer)on all sorts of plastic wear strip including Turcite and Rulon, A letter from Cody Reeves who rebuilds machines and installs Mogluce and Turcite and yours truly.
We can talk about here after the folks get the scoop on the link. I am headed to Germany in a few weeks where I'll be teaching machine rebuilding at 3 machine rebuilders (Professionals) and I can ask them what they use on their Deckels.
Moglice, Phenolic, Amco Bronze, Rulon, Nylatron and I believe I mention Steel.
Cash mentions Cast Iron. Pros are Cash, Other Brother, RC 99, Iron Smith (Chris German) I reference letter from Dave Biering of Tri star plastics who is an expert (engineer)on all sorts of plastic wear strip including Turcite and Rulon, A letter from Cody Reeves who rebuilds machines and installs Mogluce and Turcite and yours truly.
We can talk about here after the folks get the scoop on the link. I am headed to Germany in a few weeks where I'll be teaching machine rebuilding at 3 machine rebuilders (Professionals) and I can ask them what they use on their Deckels.
Nope, I don't see that. I read the first page again and I see rollers and Moglice. And then more Moglice. And more Moglice. And MORE Moglice.. But then I am blurry eyed from your posts there - I MUST remind myself to skip those.
I'm not interested in names being mentioned in passing - I'm interested in discussing pros and cons. Otherwise, wood makes an excellent way material. Please, do not waste time "helping" me. I have no interest whatsoever in your posts, opinions, experiences etc.
Richard King
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2005
- Location
- Cottage Grove, MN 55016
As you mentioned this is a "Public Forum" I write to help everyone that reads it. I have no idea why your angry. Your a hobbyist right? I am a professional Journeyman Machine Tool Rebuilder trying to help you and the others who read the forum. Why ask a question if you don't want answers?
I am NOT angry. I am not interested in your advice / opinions / experiences / things you do / people you know etc. I am NOT a hobbyist and I do not need your help. Instead of typing thin air you should've simply outlined a list with alternatives to Turcite and eventual advantages/disadvantages. That would be an ANSWER. I can not read your posts - they start by seeming to answer some question but immediately dive into the old same.
Question:
In the other thread, there is mention of underloading the turcite or Rulon. It seems as if most smaller machines, like 10EE size, or most lathes under maybe 14" will consistently underload the material.
Is it then not worth the effort to use it?
And, if not worth it, would the use of phenolic or micarta etc be better for cases where the loading will be far lower than that recommended in the other thread? The cost of the turcite, and the somewhat involved method of application, would suggest not using it if there is no advantage to it over other materials.
What would be the reason (if any) to consider the use of phenolic etc instead of turcite etc?
In the other thread, there is mention of underloading the turcite or Rulon. It seems as if most smaller machines, like 10EE size, or most lathes under maybe 14" will consistently underload the material.
Is it then not worth the effort to use it?
And, if not worth it, would the use of phenolic or micarta etc be better for cases where the loading will be far lower than that recommended in the other thread? The cost of the turcite, and the somewhat involved method of application, would suggest not using it if there is no advantage to it over other materials.
What would be the reason (if any) to consider the use of phenolic etc instead of turcite etc?
Richard King
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2005
- Location
- Cottage Grove, MN 55016
One of the main factors with Turcite, Rulon, Nylatron, Moglice materials are self lubricating. I believe Turcite was developed at Boeing for CNC type machines to eliminate "Stick Slip". A few years back I rebuilt a Drake Thread grinder made from a old Jones and Lampson thread grinder they converted to CNC and when I pulled the table off the base it, the base had strips of Rulon 142 on it, but what then seemed 50% less area then the original cast on cast. I called Drake as I knew them as I taught them to scrape several years ago when they first started in business. They told me the same thing Dave talked about that the Rulon doesn't gets slippery until it's compressed. From my experience when I rebuilt Hardinge conventional tool room lathes I eliminated stick slip when using it compared to the original steel bed plate and cast iron saddle. Hardinge started to bond .010" nylon under there as the stick slip was a issue they always had. Phenolic is easy to buy and cheap compared to Rulon and Turcite. You can buy it from MSC I would bet it's 75% less money too and it isn't self lubricating
I still use Grade Linen Phenolic or I did as recently 2016 (slowing down in rebuilding now, just teaching) when I lined up the worn head-stocks of the Drake grinder because when You tighten them down to the bed Turcite would squish when clamped. Grande linen Phenolic is hard and doesn't squish.
Found this info on Turcite and Rulon. Nice You Tube link too.
A Comparison of Linear Bearings: Rulon 142 & Turcite B
I still use Grade Linen Phenolic or I did as recently 2016 (slowing down in rebuilding now, just teaching) when I lined up the worn head-stocks of the Drake grinder because when You tighten them down to the bed Turcite would squish when clamped. Grande linen Phenolic is hard and doesn't squish.
Found this info on Turcite and Rulon. Nice You Tube link too.
A Comparison of Linear Bearings: Rulon 142 & Turcite B
mark123
Aluminum
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2010
- Location
- Trundle,NSW,Australia
Machine rebuilders that I used to visit used ertalyte plastic. They said it had excellent wear resistance, low friction and unaffected by moisture. They would machine it to whatever thickness they wanted and glue it to the ways and sometimes also screw it down as well. It's not cheap though at $40-50 plus a square foot depending on thickness.
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