Small footprint VMC wanted - suggestions please?

swood1 · Apr 14, 2014

Hi all,

I am looking for a small footprint VMC with Toolchanger. I am wanting the machine to cut mild steel and possibly stainless steel. The products I make are generally small items (each item approx 1" cubed). I have £10,000 to spend, I would prefer 2nd hand as my finances are limited. So far I know about the Haas Mini mills but fear these are out of my range. I am also aware of the Yang SMT-500 machines but have a concern these wont give a good finish on steel meaning I will have to spend ages polishing parts afterwards. Having a tool change facility would be great.

Can anyone give any recommendations on machines types please? I will also need to add a 4th axis eventually.

Steve

MICK 1958 · Apr 15, 2014

Steve,

I think a Haas Mini Mill is designed for plastic, carbon electrodes, graphite, and such... I don't think it will fare well with metals, let alone exotic metals. Maybe with a diminished DOC, That is a lot of money to spend on something that will not work that well for you. IMHO!

I realize you are in the UK, I have heard that Fadal (original owner) makes a small bench top VMC that is superb for the price.

You may want to look into that for your needs.

Mick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJu-hPrb6pk

Check out this video!

allloutmx · Apr 15, 2014

MICK 1958 said:
Steve,

I think a Haas Mini Mill is designed for plastic, carbon electrodes, graphite, and such... I don't think it will fare well with metals, let alone exotic metals. Maybe with a diminished DOC, That is a lot of money to spend on something that will not work that well for you. IMHO!

I realize you are in the UK, I have heard that Fadal (original owner) makes a small bench top VMC that is superb for the price.

You may want to look into that for your needs.

Mick

Good Morning Mick,
Just wanted let you know, we have two ten year old mini mills in operation and they rarely see a plastic job. They are actually quite a nice little machine, capable of some impressive cuts in aluminum steel and titanium, for such a small machine, and depending on previous operator habits, they can be reasonably accurate, depending on your industry. I imagine the newer SS models are a real good bargin .

Swood1- Keep your eyes out for a Southwestern industries Prototrak...might find one within your price point if your on top of it, and someone doesn't see it before you.

tay2daizzo8 · Apr 15, 2014

Kitamura mycenters seem to be small I have a mycenter 0 I can practically fit in a pickup

alliancefab · Apr 15, 2014

MICK 1958 said:
Steve,

I think a Haas Mini Mill is designed for plastic, carbon electrodes, graphite, and such... I don't think it will fare well with metals, let alone exotic metals. Maybe with a diminished DOC, That is a lot of money to spend on something that will not work that well for you. IMHO!

I realize you are in the UK, I have heard that Fadal (original owner) makes a small bench top VMC that is superb for the price.

You may want to look into that for your needs.

Mick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJu-hPrb6pk

Check out this video!

a mini mill is not by any means a plastic only machine. they are very capable machine for their size and weight.

Jason,

MICK 1958 · Apr 15, 2014

Alright Men!

I concede, I have never run a "Haas mini mill", Two friends of mine have them and they both told me pretty much the same thing. And they don't know each other! Light cuts only is what they both claim.

I appreciate the new info you have informed me of. I was in fact parroting what I was told about the mill.

Now, I did look the two machines up and the Haas is selling bare bones for 33,995 :eek:

The UMC by Dave Decaussin comes maxed out at 10,000 less! :scratchchin:

I have seen the video's Dave has put out on Utube and I think it is pretty impressive.

I will look to see what the Haas has as far as video's go...

Thanks again,
Mick

alliancefab · Apr 16, 2014

MICK 1958 said:
Alright Men!

I concede, I have never run a "Haas mini mill", Two friends of mine have them and they both told me pretty much the same thing. And they don't know each other! Light cuts only is what they both claim.

I appreciate the new info you have informed me of. I was in fact parroting what I was told about the mill.

Now, I did look the two machines up and the Haas is selling bare bones for 33,995

The UMC by Dave Decaussin comes maxed out at 10,000 less!

I have seen the video's Dave has put out on Utube and I think it is pretty impressive.

I will look to see what the Haas has as far as video's go...

Thanks again,
Mick

your trying to compare two completely different classes of machines. A mini mill is a 40 taper machine and that little Fadec machine is a bench top toy with a modified r8 spindle. about the same as a Tormach.

Jason,

Atomkinder · Apr 16, 2014

alliancefab said:
your trying to compare two completely different classes of machines. A mini mill is a 40 taper machine and that little Fadec machine is a bench top toy with a modified r8 spindle. about the same as a Tormach.

Jason,

If you compare the specs, they are not as comparable as it would seem. Their size is, but the Fadec has servos, a 3hp motor (better than your standard Bridgeport), and is at least mostly made in the US. While it would still be difficult to compare to a Minimill, I'm pretty convinced they're a few steps above a Tormach. At least they don't sound as awful on video. I think for space limitations, wiring considerations, and the ability to fit it easily almost anywhere it's a viable option with a reduced initial cost: $11k less than the base Minimill before any tooling.

Something else that gets to me is when every modern "benchtop" is considered a toy, whereas the old belt-driven benchtops were "quality tools." Take them each as they come, I say. And FWIW, the Fadec comes with a coolant tank, pump, and "stand" all included and part of the whole machine, and with a better spindle option than a Tormach for repeatability (although I don't know why they didn't go with BT30 - space limitations?).

alliancefab · Apr 16, 2014

The OP asked for VMC's in small footprint not bench top mills. That's why I jumped in on this discussion 2 different ends of the spectrum.

a bt-30 tool holder is the size of that whole spindle nose on that umc.

Jason,

Atomkinder · Apr 16, 2014

alliancefab said:
a bt-30 tool holder is the size of that whole spindle nose on that umc.

Well, no. The large end diameter of an R8 shank and a BT30 holder are the same - 1.25"

I'm guessing it was a height restriction. The "CAT-R8" bothers me though. I don't like proprietary tooling if it can be avoided.

http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html#BT

At any rate, fine. I still think it's far more capable than a Tormach, and worth a look for its price. I'm guessing even a used Minimill in the UK is likely to be more than £10k, but then again, so is a new Fadec.

I do agree that a Minimill will be more productive, and likely hold more value in the long run as well.

swood1 · Apr 16, 2014

Hi all,
Thanks for the responses, I think you all have some valid points. Just shows a conf machine can be very flexible when required. I need to spend some time reading up on these proposals. I have never heard of a fadal so will be interesting to google it. I am not looking for a machine for high volume work it's for small batch runs. I know there is a haas for sale 40miles from me so need to arrange to view it.

I'm knowledgeable on basic machine tools e.g.. lathes and manual mills but no idea on cnc. I assume I need to check the ball screws for play? Is this an easy thing to check for on a conf mill? Also would it be normal for me to ask the seller to cut a small item to check machining quality?

Ps. How do I get forum to notify me responses via email?

Steve

swood1 · Apr 16, 2014

10k serious? Is that new? I wonder if it's single phase.

Steve

Atomkinder · Apr 16, 2014

swood1 said:
10k serious? Is that new? I wonder if it's single phase.

Steve

If you're talking about Dave Decaussin's Fadec, no, they aren't 10k, they're about £13k (before tooling). They are single phase. I don't know what it'd take to get one in the UK though.

Small CNC and Mill Machines | PCNC | VMC | Fadeceng.com

Wish I had one to talk about it more. I like the compact format, but it might be more limiting than it's worth. If you have a Haas 40 miles away, go check it out for sure.

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Small footprint VMC wanted - suggestions please?

swood1

Plastic

MICK 1958

Stainless

allloutmx

Titanium

tay2daizzo8

Hot Rolled

alliancefab

Hot Rolled

MICK 1958

Stainless

alliancefab

Hot Rolled

Atomkinder

Titanium

alliancefab

Hot Rolled

Atomkinder

Titanium

swood1

Plastic

swood1

Plastic

Atomkinder

Titanium

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