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Thread: article: It's Not the Wages Stupid

  1. #21
    adammil1 is offline Titanium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    To find Left wing news, you are basically left with obscure websites- NO national TV, Radio, or Newspaper is what I would call left of center.
    What do you call MSNBC? I would say that is quite liberal! Then there is/was Air America which was supposed to be a liberal alternative to Conservative Talk Radio. Just because their ratings are lower or they failed doesn't mean they don't or haven't existed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Those that had the biggest clubs ruled.
    Most humans (indeed primates) share the behavioral predisposition to being slaves. And most of those that don't are easily misled.

    Stupid broken genome makes Winston a tragic character.

    We should strive for better, but its scary to think of engineering that change.

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    I call MSNBC center right, which is what it is.
    I also call it ONE tv station. My Dish Network gets about 6 different Fox channels.
    Actually, if you want to see real "liberal" tv, I would recommend either Current, or Link, both of which are far from socialist, but considerably to the left of Fox.
    And both of which, combined, have about the viewership of a small town in Iowa.

    And I call Obama a Center Right democrat.
    anybody who is seriously considering appointing Larry Summers to the World Bank is not Left, in any rational definition of the word.

    Americans have a funny view of the definitions of "left" and "right". We are currently about the most right wing of any of the top 20 or 30 industrialized nations, by a significant margin.
    I watch international news to get some perspective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by adammil1 View Post
    What do you call MSNBC? I would say that is quite liberal! Then there is/was Air America which was supposed to be a liberal alternative to Conservative Talk Radio. Just because their ratings are lower or they failed doesn't mean they don't or haven't existed.
    I should probably keep a low profile as I'm not sure which media support what but to me being "liberal" isn't the same as "left wing" unless you're really right wing (very conservative).

    Here liberal parties (and we have more than one) tend to sway backwards and forwards around the middle.

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    As I have said time and time again It shocks me we have so many liberals in here. Environmental regulation is the enemy of manufacturing, and if that isn't a liberal cause I don't know what is. So I come to the conclusion most of you have no idea what liberalism or conservatism mean or you are pretending to be someone you are not. Like a button pusher that claims to be upper management, etc,etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    To find Left wing news, you are basically left with obscure websites- NO national TV, Radio, or Newspaper is what I would call left of center.
    You could try streaming AM 1090. Thom Heartman is on there and probably the smartest liberal in the media.

    Rachel Maddow on MSNBC is excellent and by far the smartest person on TV news.

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    75sv1 is offline Cast Iron
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    I doubt it is just one factor. Wages, maybe to some extent. Still, with some products, that is a small percentage. Also, factor that against quality, and what warranty can cost you.
    Two areas I think the article left out. The first is trade barriers. I think I read that the two most popular cars, the Huyndia And Toyota Collora don't sell very much in the opposing countires, Japan and Korea.
    The other is that the US market is somewhat stagnent. So you have to take market share from your competitors. Other countires are growning, China, India Brazil etc. So that is where mature manufacture want to gain market share. To do this, they need to locate factories there. As, they won't sell much product from the US. Some it due to higher cost, others trade restrictions. Notice the Automakers going to China, they usually pair up with a local manufacture.
    Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Environmental regulation is the enemy of manufacturing, and if that isn't a liberal cause I don't know what is.
    poppycock.

    NOT dumping toxic waste into a river is "liberal"?
    there have been plenty of conservative conservationists.

    Real conservatives believe in "conserving" the environment they live in.

    And environmental legislation does not have to be the enemy of manufacturing- sensible manufacturers dont shit where they eat.

    The germans are very "conservative" in the true, dictionary meaning of the word- they dont like change, much. And they are also pretty gung ho for environmental regulation, and, guess what? Their manufacturing is doing just great, even with environmental regulations. VW is trying hard to become the number one auto manufacturer worldwide, but Germany, in general, not only survives all that nasty regulation, it thrives, as the number one or two exporter and manufacturer in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    poppycock.

    NOT dumping toxic waste into a river is "liberal"?
    there have been plenty of conservative conservationists.

    Real conservatives believe in "conserving" the environment they live in.

    And environmental legislation does not have to be the enemy of manufacturing- sensible manufacturers dont shit where they eat.

    The germans are very "conservative" in the true, dictionary meaning of the word- they dont like change, much. And they are also pretty gung ho for environmental regulation, and, guess what? Their manufacturing is doing just great, even with environmental regulations. VW is trying hard to become the number one auto manufacturer worldwide, but Germany, in general, not only survives all that nasty regulation, it thrives, as the number one or two exporter and manufacturer in the world.
    Nice job going to extremes, go ahead and rattle off as many high profile tree huggers that support Republican candidates, I'll wait.

  10. #30
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    I am not sure what a "high profile tree hugger" is.

    but here are a few present and past republican conservationists-
    Rick Enstrom, of Colorado.
    Colorado Peak Politics:: TOFFEE VS MAGGOTS: Legislative Matchups Looking Strong For GOP With Rock Star Recruits
    John Huntsman, of "I'm not ashamed of being a conservationist" fame-
    http://www.nationaljournal.com/hunts...nist--20110728
    Theodore Roosevelt, creator of our national park system-
    National Park Service History: Theodore Roosevelt and the National Park System
    Florida Republican Nat Reed- famous conservationist-
    Nat - Nathaniel P Reed, The Backbone of Florida Environmentalism - YouTube

    there are dozens more, going back a hundred years.


    how about these guys-
    Conservation is Conservative, Dave Herrington

    the EPA itself was, of course, created by a Republican- Richard Nixon.

    Both the Sierra Club and the League of Conservation Voters routinely endorse republican candidates-
    here is a link from 2002
    Sierra Club endorses Republican Vern Ehlers [Archive] - The Michigan Sportsman Forums

    in my home state, Washington, we had several prominent Republican Politicians who were conservationists-
    Governor Dan Evans, for example, has always been a self proclaimed conservationist, as has our Republican Congressman Slade Gorton.

    Where I live, both of those Republicans, who have been active in the republican party for something like 50 years each, ARE high profile tree huggers.

    We have never seen any disconnect between conservative and conservationist up here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    poppycock.

    NOT dumping toxic waste into a river is "liberal"?
    there have been plenty of conservative conservationists.

    Real conservatives believe in "conserving" the environment they live in.

    And environmental legislation does not have to be the enemy of manufacturing- sensible manufacturers dont shit where they eat.

    The germans are very "conservative" in the true, dictionary meaning of the word- they dont like change, much. And they are also pretty gung ho for environmental regulation, and, guess what? Their manufacturing is doing just great, even with environmental regulations. VW is trying hard to become the number one auto manufacturer worldwide, but Germany, in general, not only survives all that nasty regulation, it thrives, as the number one or two exporter and manufacturer in the world.
    German made stuff is generally of superior quality,especially considering the amount of chinese trash on the market these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Nice job going to extremes, go ahead and rattle off as many high profile tree huggers that support Republican candidates, I'll wait.
    What specific regulations are you against?

    I love how conservatives act like environmental regs have been a big deal. Do you really think humans have had a hard time taking advantage of the earth? Humans are a fucking virus on this planet. We've treated it like shit, and you fucks have the balls to bitch about a few environmental regs? What more do you want? How about back the fuck off.

    We are on this freak planet that has life on it and your attitude is, hey, lets rape it? What? Can't you see how fucking lucky you are to even be alive? Are you too stupid to see how fragile this shit is? Ya think maybe you might want to think about not fucking it up? Or at least maybe not go out of your way to fuck it up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by logjam View Post
    German made stuff is generally of superior quality,especially considering the amount of chinese trash on the market these days.
    I would totally agree- I have a couple of German machines in my shop, and they are really well built, repairable, and sturdy.
    And they were built with environmental regulations governing the company that built them.
    I actually imported one of em myself from Germany, paying a lot for it, because there quite simply is no american machine that would do the job.

    In Germany, BMW is required by law (not just BMW, of course, ALL automakers) to take back every single piece of the car for recycling. Bumpers, batteries, plastic, metal- the whole damn car.
    And yet, miraculously, BMW manages to make enormous profits, sell their cars all over the world, and do so with union workers on their board of directors.

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    RedBaron is offline Aluminum
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Welden View Post

    Rachel Maddow on MSNBC is excellent and by far the smartest person on TV news.



    I must be in the wrong church.


    Gary

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBaron View Post



    I must be in the wrong church.


    Gary
    Doubt you've ever seen her show.

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    Quote Originally Posted by logjam View Post
    German made stuff is generally of superior quality,....

    Most of the people I know w/ VW's and German "daily driver" cars dedicate a lot of time (and $$) getting repairs done.

    The whole (misconception) of german quality when it comes to automobiles just baffles me?? I carpooled w/ someone who worked at VW-Audi US headquaters here in Wash DC and her VW was in the shop for repairs (not regular maintenence) at least once per quarter. Seems like german coils have a lifespan of 6 mos at best.

    And you know how many $750 shop bills she paid on "bad coils". Baffling.

    I now carpool w. someone who is a Volvo fiend. $3000 repair & maintenance bills are viewed as "normal". Now we are in Swedish territory, so I have digressed...

    German engineering is a BS misnomer... its more like German over-complication...

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    Quote Originally Posted by morsetaper2 View Post
    Most of the people I know w/ VW's and German "daily driver" cars dedicate a lot of time (and $$) getting repairs done.

    The whole (misconception) of german quality when it comes to automobiles just baffles me?? I carpooled w/ someone who worked at VW-Audi US headquaters here in Wash DC and her VW was in the shop for repairs (not regular maintenence) at least once per quarter. Seems like german coils have a lifespan of 6 mos to a year at best.

    And you know how many $750 shop bills she paid on "bad coils". Baffling.

    I now carpool w. someone who is a Volvo fiend. $3000 repair & maintenance bills are viewed as "normal". Now we are in Swedish territory, so I have digressed...

    German engineering is BS... its more like German over-complication...
    I am talking about machine tools, when I am praising german stuff, primarily.
    Tools in general, really. Fer instance, my peddinghaus hammers are my favorites- drop forged in germany. Or my Haberle cold saw- built like a brick shithouse. All of the German tools I have earn their rep.
    I dont own any german cars right now, and havent driven any regularly for a long time, so I cant speak to that, but they sure seem to sell a lot of em...

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    Quote Originally Posted by adammil1 View Post
    What do you call MSNBC? I would say that is quite liberal! Then there is/was Air America which was supposed to be a liberal alternative to Conservative Talk Radio. Just because their ratings are lower or they failed doesn't mean they don't or haven't existed.
    C'mon.....MSNBC is liberal?

    Why, just yesterday they showed a picture of Newt with his new wifey. They LOVE the guy. Hell they even showed his other five wives too.I wonder if they'll do a spot on Romney?

  19. #39
    morsetaper2 is offline Titanium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    I am talking about machine tools, when I am praising german stuff, primarily.
    Tools in general, really. ...
    I am in agreement there. I have some German snap ring pliers that are top shelf. And I'd love to get a Deckel Mill sometime.

    I still say German cars suck from a reliability & and economical operating perspective. Way overblown & way overhyped. But the public buys it so i guess its a good product. (laughing at the suckers....)

    I wouldn't touch a German (daily driver) car unless I had a sudden large $$ inheritance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by morsetaper2 View Post
    Most of the people I know w/ VW's and German "daily driver" cars dedicate a lot of time (and $$) getting repairs done.

    The whole (misconception) of german quality when it comes to automobiles just baffles me?? I carpooled w/ someone who worked at VW-Audi US headquaters here in Wash DC and her VW was in the shop for repairs (not regular maintenence) at least once per quarter. Seems like german coils have a lifespan of 6 mos at best.

    And you know how many $750 shop bills she paid on "bad coils". Baffling.

    I now carpool w. someone who is a Volvo fiend. $3000 repair & maintenance bills are viewed as "normal". Now we are in Swedish territory, so I have digressed...

    German engineering is a BS misnomer... its more like German over-complication...
    I can't speak for all German vehicles but I encourage anyone to take a BMW 330, 650, etc., for a drive. Find a nice stretch of road where you can get on the hammer and pay attention to what you're NOT hearing... the road, wind and other "noise" you get from many other vehicles. Not to mention, the handling and road-feel is as good as it gets in any car.

    I use to think the same thing of German cars and as said, I am hardly an authority on all of them, but Audi and BMW are quality through and through, and you only need drive one to understand that.

    I CAN tell you I've spent less keeping my 540i in good tune and condition than I did on many American cars I've owned. Replaced a water-pump at 70k miles... not so uncommon for a V8 car and all the rest has been normal wear and tear maintenance parts. Cost on the water pump was ~$90. My friend's Camaro's water pump was well over $100.

    Took the car in for a dead pixel (instrument display) issue just after warranty. Just wanted an estimate and to know how long it would take to get the parts in. Was wondering what was taking so long when the service tech informed me that my car was ready. No charge, no recall, they'd just seen a number of them with an issue. Service was always top shelf as well and... the car is easy to work on; no front wheel drive, no hard to get to spark plugs, just a straight forward V8 configuration with lots of room to get your hands. Hence, I refuse to sell it.

    bucktruck likes this.

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