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Thread: article: It's Not the Wages Stupid

  1. #81
    Dualkit is offline Diamond
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Welden View Post
    Outrageous! What could possibly go wrong with nine zillion people washing their cars with water we can't spare and letting the run off go down the storm drains? It's not like we have a water crisis and the oceans are sick as fuck.
    Congratulations, you win the world's biggest liberal tree hugger award. When I mention the "it is illegal to wash your own car" law must people think I am making it up and or it is a major case of liberals run amok. You are the first one all for it. On the other hand I thought liberals looked out for the poor. At a penny a gallon for city water you could wash your car at home for less than a dollar including soap. Now someone on a low income is forced to pay $10 for a car wash. That $9 can buy a few days food if a person is thrifty. All the storm drains are hooked up to the sewer system that goes to a treatment plant. What is next? Make it illegal to do your own laundry? Make it illegal to take a shower? Maybe everyone should be forced to do laundry and shower at places that recycle water. Look at the big pile of crap California is, highest taxes and fees in the USA. Yet we have high crime, filthy cities, and terrible roads to drive on. California as a whole votes heavily Democrat, what does that tell you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBaron View Post
    Factcheck.org has little to do with fact. Partisan website disguising itself as a public service announcement. A spin factory.

    These numbers come from the US treasury:

    Government - Monthly Statement of the Public Debt (MSPD) and Downloadable Files


    The deficit continues to grow, there is no Clinton balanced budget, we haven't had a balanced budget in a long time, and we haven't had zero government debt since the 19th century. The most recent decrease (albeit small) to the deficit occurs under President Eisenhower.


    Gary
    Note that both Factcheck and your source are using the same government sources; in somewhat of an apples to oranges comparison.

    Perhaps the most sensible way of looking at debt is to view it as a percent of GDP. By that measure there was indeed a surplus during the Clinton administration.

    Imagine two families. One takes on a $2,000/month mortgage payment while its monthly income stays at, say, $2,000 a month. That's a recipe for borrowing and, if continued long enough, disaster. Another takes on a $2,000 month debt, but it's income increases from $2,000 to $5,000 a month. That debt isn't a problem, as long as family income remains strong. My point is that it's not the absolute value of debt that's important (your source) as the ratio of debt to income and wealth.

    A skeptic (myself among them) might think that some of what counts as GDP in recent decades is partly illusory; especially in some of the high tech and then housing bubbles. Clinton had the good fortune to preside over a rising economy just as Obama has had the bad fortune to preside over a falling economy.

  3. #83
    ihbuilder is offline Cast Iron
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    "All the storm drains are hooked up to the sewer system that goes to a treatment plant."

    You sure about that I guess you pay a premium for sewer then with all that storm water over flowing the treatment plant everytime Ol mother nature desides to open up her tear ducts Sorry , but around here storm sewer and sewer are 2 different systems . Storm sewer (water) goese to a ground water recharge system of some sort , While Sewage goes to a treatment plant .
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    I hope all you extreme left wingers are practicing what you preach.
    Cool! When are the extreme left wingers showing up? John Welden is single-handedly carrying the banner for them -- can't wait!

    Look at the big pile of crap California is, highest taxes and fees in the USA. Yet we have high crime, filthy cities, and terrible roads to drive on. California as a whole votes heavily Democrat, what does that tell you?
    It's all the Democrat's fault. Then again, California has the highest population of elderly, gays, hispanics, asians, foster kids, federal prisoners and illegal immigrants too, so maybe it's their fault.

    You need to deregulate pollution controls in California -- the air quality will get much better, and you'll make California much more competitive...

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Congratulations, you win the world's biggest liberal tree hugger award. When I mention the "it is illegal to wash your own car" law must people think I am making it up and or it is a major case of liberals run amok. You are the first one all for it.
    Love how you fucks get bent out of shape over tiny shit like this, but then sit back over stuff like the Patriot Act. So fucking funny. CAN'T WASH MY CAR?!?!?! WHAT?!?!? Wire tap my phones, internet, everything without a warrant. Hold me indefinitely without trial. Torture me. That's fine...

    I love how conservatives have to be against anything environmental so they can maintain their phony ass tough guy image. You can't care about the environment because that's what faggot liberals do! I aint gonna recycle! That's what liberal faggots do! I ain't gonna drive a fuel efficient vehicle because it's my right as an American to be a wasteful dumb fuck and driving a big truck helps me feel like a MAN. I'm too fucking stupid to look a few years down the road and see that oil is going to run out, so I just waste as much as possible right now. YEEE HA!

    It's 2012 and I'm still wearing a fucking mullet n proud of it!







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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    C All the storm drains are hooked up to the sewer system that goes to a treatment plant.
    Not mine. The ones in front of the shop dump into Cole Creek about 200 yards away. In about 8 miles this dumps into the Flint River where it heads for Lake Huron.

    The storm drains at my house go about a 1/3 mile then dump into the river.
    The same river GM used to dump everything into for many, many decades although they were downstream from me.

    In the 60s-70's you did not get close to the Flint river, the smell itself told you this was not good.
    Property on the river was worthless.

    Something helped somehow.
    Now you can canoe and fish in it again. I'll take the dog down and let her play in the water.
    This is something I would have never done when I was a kid.

    I am no fan of regulations. All those rules are a real pain in the ass.
    When the EPA told me I could not dump my shop floor mop water into my own septic system I was saying WTF.
    But I have seen a huge change around here.
    Seeing the difference kind of makes you a believer.

    Bob
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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalltime View Post
    So by your logic, FDR was complicit in the attacks on Pearl Harbor.
    Directly? Nope. At least I don't think so.....

    Did he breathe a huge sigh of relief after they happened? probably..... he'd been backing the Japanese into a corner for quite a while, and at the same time trying to provoke the Germans as well.... It's well known that he wanted the US to get into the war.....

    Bush was not involved with 9-11 If anyone was, it was Cheney. There is a strong smell of "look the other way and let's hope something happens" in the way warnings never made it up the chain, and the fact that known people were involved.
    Maybe another "fast and furious" type sting op that got away........ but quite possible Cheney fixed it with his old pals at the agency to just let it get buried and not seen.

    You can never really trust agency type folks...... They deal in deception all the time, and it corrupts them like rust.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihbuilder View Post
    "All the storm drains are hooked up to the sewer system that goes to a treatment plant."

    You sure about that I guess you pay a premium for sewer then with all that storm water over flowing the treatment plant everytime Ol mother nature desides to open up her tear ducts Sorry , but around here storm sewer and sewer are 2 different systems . Storm sewer (water) goese to a ground water recharge system of some sort , While Sewage goes to a treatment plant .
    St Louis has a "combined" system..... They were VERY popular for quite a while. My suburb has them also.

    Normally everything goes to the treatment plant. In heavy rain, there are overflows that dump into the creeks. One is just down the hill, I can probably get you a photo of it, and maybe the sign on it as well that declares it.

    There is a huge EPA lawsuit about it, and our metro sewer district is gonna have to spend 4 billion over 20 years to fix it as part of a settlement.

    You can look it up on-line.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    jaguar xj - Google-søgning It might say XJ but the pictures shown are of an E type.
    Gordon,
    You seriously like the new Jag? It just hasn't grown on me yet... but I did like the previous generation's "R" series a fair bit. Supercharging tends to grow on ya.

    Plus.. you could get British Racing GREEN!

    BTW, I liked this thread better when it was about cars.....

    And so disappointed in you Gordon. Noam Chomsky... you should read him. Start with "Profit over People".


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    Quote Originally Posted by cmailco View Post
    Gordon,
    You seriously like the new Jag? It just hasn't grown on me yet... but I did like the previous generation's "R" series a fair bit. Supercharging tends to grow on ya.

    Plus.. you could get British Racing GREEN!

    BTW, I liked this thread better when it was about cars.....

    And so disappointed in you Gordon. Noam Chomsky... you should read him. Start with "Profit over People".

    A new Jag? LOL - Nope.
    The models I liked were from around the 60ties and 70ties.

    I couldn't get myself to drive around in a green car although it is the British racing colour.
    Funny Rangers F C video - YouTube

    As to Noam Chomsky I'm not sure why i should read him. I have taken a quick glance but I'm more interested in who could perhaps compete against Obama as next president and I'm assuming (certainly because of age) he won't be a candidate.

    At the moment there isn't a single Republican candidate that seriously "turns me on" and I'm definately not that crazy about Obama. I've never yet been quite sure what he'd do or which side he'd lean to given a real emergency.

    As anyone being a leader of the USA I'd vote for who I felt the person was and not which political party he or she represented. Still, I don't have a vote so good luck to the rest of you

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post

    As to Noam Chomsky I'm not sure why i should read him.
    Well, you might take an interest in thought, language, the brain and their effects on society and the human condition.

    Chomsky is meta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by <jbc> View Post
    Well, you might take an interest in thought, language, the brain and their effects on society and the human condition.

    Chomsky is meta.
    I do take an interest in those things but I'm reasonably clarified on most issues and where I stand on them.

    There are certainly those I read and listen to with more interest than others and a few that I choose to completely ignore.

    I'd never heard of Chomsky before his name was mentioned here and from the little I researched to find out what and who he was I doubt if I'll find much I violently will disagree with.

    I'm always a bit leary of those that seem to get elevated to guru like status.
    Bjorn Lomborg (Danish) fascinated me for some time but now he seems to bend to pressure.
    Bjørn Lomborg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The best (or worst?) example I can give to justify my way of thinking are those that listened to, and followed, the advice from bank advisors thinking that they must know what they are talking about because they worked in a bank. I'll bet those that lost money now wish they'd be more sceptical.

    Most professors and similar don't live in the same world as I do and I'm pretty sure Lenin and Marx never thought that their thoughts and ideas would lead to what it did. That remark has NOTHING to do with Chomsky

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    Way off topic but I belive Darwin's theory of evolution 100% and simply can't fathom how anyone could doubt it.

    You only have to look at everything around you. Evolve/adapt or perish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Way off topic but I belive Darwin's theory of evolution 100% and simply can't fathom how anyone could doubt it.
    Oh, come on Gordon -- evolution and natural selection is just a theory, just like global warming. Those crazy liberal scientists will say anything to make you believe that we're descended from apes

    Heck, Perry campaigned on the basis that Creationism should be taught in schools, and that evolution was just a cockamamie theory "with a lot of holes in it."

    Evolution Is Just a 'Theory' That’s Out There

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    Quote Originally Posted by lazlo View Post
    Oh, come on Gordon -- evolution and natural selection is just a theory, just like global warming. Those crazy liberal scientists will say anything to make you believe that we're descended from apes

    Heck, Perry campaigned on the basis that Creationism should be taught in schools, and that evolution was just a cockamamie theory "with a lot of holes in it."

    Evolution Is Just a 'Theory' That’s Out There
    To each his own I guess

    I'd love to see you seriously disprove Darwin's theory with facts.

    Global warming is a fact just as there have been several ice ages. When the next ice age comes around again I wonder who'll get blamed for that? Mother Nature is a bitch

    I don't think mankind has had much influence in global warming but there's no need to not do anything to keep nature healthy.

    For what it's worth I do believe man evolved from apes. Where do you think we came from - the garden of Eden?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    For what it's worth I do believe man evolved from apes. Where do you think we came from - the garden of Eden?
    I should have added <sarcasm> tags

    No, I don't believe in Creationism, but most of the Christian Fundamentalists that Perry was pandering to, do. And yes, they really believe the world is only 4,000 years old and that we came from Adam and Eve. They also want Israel to occupy Zion, so that it triggers the Rapture (in which most of the Jews are killed, and the remainder who convert to Christianity are saved)

    Which is why people post amusing pictures like this:


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Thanks. You kept that simple enough so I could understand it.
    Truth be told it does seem like a good description (and an excellent definition) as I understand the two things.

    That would make me a conservative but without declaring myself to be a Republican
    The Tea Party lot to me seems like an outing from "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest".
    Actually this is incorrect.
    Both conservtives and liberals want government to grow.
    Libertarians want it to shrink.

    Conservatives and Libertarians are not the same, as evidenced by the strong contingent of leftist Libertarians.

    Conservatives tend to trust big business more than they trust government, thus espousing policies to grow big business.
    Liberals tend to be the other way around.

    Here...do this.
    The Political Compass - Test

  18. #98
    dp
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazlo View Post
    It's all the Democrat's fault. Then again, California has the highest population of elderly, gays, hispanics, asians, foster kids, federal prisoners and illegal immigrants too, so maybe it's their fault.
    You repeated yourself

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by dp View Post
    You repeated yourself
    LOL! Good one Dennis

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazlo View Post
    You have a very strange notion of conservatism. Union Carbide outsourced their plant to Bhopal to avoid environmental and safety regulations.
    That happened n 1934 - what regulations were in effect then?

    http://www.bhopal.com/chronology

    That facility was built there to provide products to the emerging Indian ag industry. The Indian government was a 50/50 partner and Indians ran the company. Even the US court of appeals stated as much. The demand and desire for a chemical company in India existed, the government was willing to partner - the only possible outcome is that there was going to be a chemical plant there.

    The disaster appears to have been sabotage, there being no established process for permitting the introduction of water into the chem tank which caused the reaction.

    That does not mean UCC were not asshats here at home:
    Union Carbide Agrees to Pay $408,500 Fine for Safety Violations - NYTimes.com

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