Thread: The Baffling Reaction to OWS

Originally Posted by lazlo

I'll trade you a highly offensive racist slur for public defecation:

http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slides...0093_large.jpg

It is a poor simile but not racially offensive. Unless you think Jews are a race and even then it is not directed at Jews but in an obnoxious way is equating one group of victimized people with another. Badly.

My brother who is as Danish as I am is Jewish as is his wife and kids. Hence my intolerance for Jew bashing is long and fierce. At least a third of my living family is black or other racial minority.

Originally Posted by SND

Business, economics, commerce. The course every person without a f-ing clue what they want to do with their life takes(lets throw in Philosophy too). Seriously, almost everyone I knew in high school took that. Some of them ended up with a fair bit of debt too, if or when it gets repaid I don't know. Can't think of one that got a job yet they couldn't have gotten straight out of high school with no debt or university(a few were lucky parents paid, but still no fancy job either)

Thanks for the vote of confidence SND. I went to high school with more than a few braggarts who told me that they were "going to (insert party school here) to get a MBA and make a quarter mil a year right out of school" most of them weren't bright enough to put together that a business degree without a skill or some serious bullshitting talent wasn't going to take them far. Afaik most if not all of them are living off their parents coat-tails and I don't think a single one has broken 80k/yr.

Which brings my next point/question. When sitting in a class with 400 other people taking the same course, and then consider there's howmany other universities in that city or State offering that same course. Does nobody do the math to arrive to the conclusion of " shit, there's 2000 of us and only 100 jobs opening a year, someone's screwed here? "

Thus the need to specialize? I was in several classes with 200 or more other people, I don't think many classes like that are catering to any sort of job specialization, many are weed-out classes to distinguish those who are able to do the program from those who aren't or don't want to, or BS classes like "how to use the library" to pad the university's pockets. I happen to think its foolish to believe that a giant company is going to take care of you if you have a generic degree with a generic work ethic, these things make you easy to replace.

Originally Posted by thruthefence

"Those of us under 30 are being labeled "the boomerang generation" because we're graduating into a lousy job market"

Don't use "we" unless there's a mouse in your pocket- YOU dropped out. If you were in school, there's no reason except poor performance you didn't get a loan to continue.

Maybe after taking a few economics courses you realized 80 large a year was like 40 acres & a mule. Alota BS talk.

I'm not the one to coin that phrase. I also don't live with or get financial support from my parents, but I know an awful lot of people who were told (like I was) that if you get a degree success is a sure thing, and an awful lot of them are living with their parents again, with a big debt to show for that piece of paper. I'm doing better than most of them from what I can tell.

My specific beef (and one I've heard echoed thru reading a bit about OWS and the book "strapped") is that it leaves an incredibly small margin for error on a person's career trajectory, not to mention being screwed hard by private loan companies, worse if you have multiple loans thru different companies. If you clicked the link in my OP you'd see that the companies making these loans have a vested interest in causing the borrower to default and (for god only knows why) the government has backed these loans, which I predict will have the same consequences as the government backing bad bets in other markets

80 large a year wasn't BS talk for an engineering degree (my dad is an ME) as I addressed above it is for a business degree without coupling to a real skill, same goes for economics. Economics fascinates me and I want to learn more about it. My extended family likes to suggest I'm the family fuckup for not finishing my degree, even as my younger cousins who have just graduated are living at home with student debt and severely underemployed (one is an IT major working an unskilled job in a nursing home for $11/hr) making considerably less than the dropout.

Take a night school course while working your day job. Take one on line, if you have to. Puts your student loans in suspense while you continue your education.You need to write yor representitive about your loan problem, that should NOT be happening. "Full Time" has no bearing.

There is no "put them in suspense" AKA Deferment/Forbearance for private loans in Iowa (though its super easy for federal/Stafford/FELP loans in any state) for PT students and even if there was, I want this debt gone before I take on any more. I have written my representatives, but, as I don't have a whole lot of money to contribute to their campaigns, I tend to get ignored.

Originally Posted by dp

It is a poor simile but not racially offensive.

I have several Jewish friends, and they're quite sure there's such a thing as a Jewish racial slur. Show that Tea Party sign to any of them, and they'll find it very offensive.

Ditto for the Tea party sign from the gentleman (term used very loosely) from Texas.

Point being, there are assholes at any public demonstration, but that does not necessarily reduce the importance of what they're protesting.

In this case, OWS and the Tea Party are protesting the same thing: corruption amongst our power elite.

Originally Posted by lazlo

I have several Jewish friends, and they're quite sure there's such a thing as a Jewish racial slur. Show that Tea Party sign to any of them, and they'll find it very offensive.

I agree it is obnoxious but does not rise to being racist.

Are Jews a Race?

In the 1980s, the United States Supreme Court ruled that Jews are a race, at least for purposes of certain anti-discrimination laws. Their reasoning: at the time these laws were passed, people routinely spoke of the "Jewish race" or the "Italian race" as well as the "Negro race," so that is what the legislators intended to protect.

But many Jews were deeply offended by that decision, offended by any hint that Jews could be considered a race. The idea of Jews as a race brings to mind nightmarish visions of Nazi Germany, where Jews were declared to be not just a race, but an inferior race that had to be rounded up into ghettos and exterminated like vermin.

But setting aside the emotional issues, Jews are clearly not a race.

Judaism 101: What Is Judaism?

"companies making these loans have a vested interest in causing the borrower to default"

Let me give you a lesson on the loan bid-ness. And by this I mean credit cards, student loans, payday loans, et al.

The reason they want some borrowers to default, is because they can bundle sell the loans to a collection agency at a discount, and write off the rest against profits.

I'm not picking on you, but I graduated BSME in '65, went in the army, and couldn't find jackshit when I got out. I did something else, and raised two kids, who WORKED their way through college, with some loans, which they are paying on. Both Jolly little Liberals, one a Lawyer in Dallas, another a Phd candidate in (you want fries with that) English. Both working, My son does a bunch of pro bono work with the po' folks, and my daughter (the Phd) is teaching kindergarten, her hubby just passed the bar exam, & had a job as a landman in Ft Worth soon as he graduated.

Want to check out the BSME $ in this economy? go here:

Eng-Tips Forums

80K? maybe with a PE & some experience.

Blessed are those of low expectations, for they will never be disappointed.

"I agree it is obnoxious but does not rise to being racist."

Racism is whatever the aggrieved party SAYS it is.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...rformance.html

Originally Posted by Shooter7

I find the reaction, amongst successful and semi-successful individuals within the REAL sector of the economy, to the OWS movement to be particularly baffling. By the real economy, I am talking about what we do, along with construction, ag, mining, tangible services, etc. You know...the type of economic activity that MADE America.

Well, you have:

People who are in denial.
People who think they are better off (than they are).
People who hate anyone different.
People who think they are avoiding the taking of wealth.
People who are afraid of any change.
People who love Rush Limbaugh.
People who have blind faith in politicians.
People who don't understand their 401 has been
reduced by Wall St. profit taking elsewhere.
People who have never been able to connect the dots.

The OWS would present a better image if they were
financed like tea baggers via the Koch Bros. who have
provided training classes for event handlers and expenses
for things like portapotties.

No wonder tea bagger events look so groomed and managed,
they are!

Does OWS & tea baggers have anything in common?
I don't think so.

OWS....tired of the 1% taking all.

Tea baggers....no government, no taxes, no regulation.
More of the existing empire I'd say with greater freedom
for business without controls thru budget cuts and no
enforcement of regulations. Nothing they say has anything
to do with controlling the 1%. Nothing.

Common ground? Nope.

Originally Posted by greenbuggy

My specific beef (and one I've heard echoed thru reading a bit about OWS and the book "strapped") is that it leaves an incredibly small margin for error on a person's career trajectory, not to mention being screwed hard by private loan companies, worse if you have multiple loans thru different companies. If you clicked the link in my OP you'd see that the companies making these loans have a vested interest in causing the borrower to default and (for god only knows why) the government has backed these loans, which I predict will have the same consequences as the government backing bad bets in other markets

Here in lies the real rub that the OWS people just don't get one bit, do you know what one thing in the last decade continues to rise in price double the rate of inflation? That would be College tuition. You see just like when the government decided to put its paws on the housing market and push the everyone owns a house mentality creating these huge giants Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mack, the price of housing ballooned house prices went up double the price of inflation etc... Not learning their lesson in the housing bubble they are doing the same with college tuition.

These colleges aren't helping out much either. If you go to the school I graduated from a State University you should see the construction going on everywhere. 9 times out of 10 it is in areas like the posh new dorms and activity space. More or less anywhere but in the educational infrastructure. They are building that place up like they are happy spending others money. The tuition is going through the roof but who the heck cares the Gov't backs the loans. Meanwhile the people who get screwed the most in all of this are the responsible ones. You see the irresponsible pile on debt and couldn't care less, but it is the family who saves what ever they can who has to pay 3times what they should be paying on their child's tuition as the system is flush with "free" money.

"I have an art degree. I got a degree in oil painting, I made darn sure to not major in anything that would get me a job."

Funny how that works. Long time ago, a man got a degree in oil painting from the
chicago art institute. He actually went on to be an instructor there. Nobody
makes money with art training. And if they do, they never do so during the depression.

Ya never can tell.

That man went on to send my dad to college, and then for a PhD. My dad went on
to send *me* to college. And I sent *my* kid to college.

All because somebody went and learned to paint. And made money when nobody
else was making money. Who knows?



Yeah, he did that one. And a bunch like it. Never say never. If you're good you can
make money doing anything. Even art.

Nice painting. I guess what I meant to say was I wanted to make sure no one would hire me so I would have an excuse to work for my self. When I started working for myself 20 years ago my parents were pissed, I was supposed to be an engineer working for a company. All these OWS guys can just forget about the current economy and move on with their own, that is what I did and many just like me.

Vernon Green, or Charles Coll?

"Only the Shadow knows!"

Great story, Jim; thanks for sharing.

That painting's not signed, but it was touched by both original shadow artists, who
were twins. George and Jerome Rozen. Jerome was my grandfather, George my
great-uncle. It's unfinished, probably the last one ever done.

They did artwork for street and smith pulps during the '30s. I've always been amazed
that my grand-dad was able to earn a good living, even buy a brand new house, at a
time when much of the country was in poverty - and did so in a field that most dismiss
as a dead loss - art.

He was good at what he did, which was selling dreams.

Originally Posted by dp

My brother who is as Danish as I am is Jewish as is his wife and kids. Hence my intolerance for Jew bashing is long and fierce. At least a third of my living family is black or other racial minority.

How come it's not okay to say Jews dominate the banking and media industry, but it's okay to say Christians dominate American political office?

Both are fact.

Funny how mentioning anything about Jews is Jew bashing. How dare I point out that Jews fucking dominate world banking and it's a complete fuckin scam of the highest order. So offensive to point out facts... sorry. You should defend your people from my intolerance of their cabal.

Originally Posted by John Welden

How come it's not okay to say Jews dominate the banking and media industry, but it's okay to say Christians dominate American political office?

Both are fact.

Facts are facts. How could anyone find that offensive if it is true? I think though you need to put a finer point on it and specify which banks/banking level. I'm going out on a limb here and offer there may not be many people who are Jewish and are heads of banks in Mecca.

Perhaps the offense was in the unrelated comments. Let's read on and see how that goes...

Funny how mentioning anything about Jews is Jew bashing. How dare I point out that Jews fucking dominate world banking and it's a complete fuckin scam of the highest order. So offensive to point out facts... sorry. You should defend your people from my intolerance of their cabal.

In what way is that a scam? Somebody has to to that job. Why does it matter to you what the religion or lack thereof? Oh - and you're being offensive. Or what you like to call "funny".

Oh gee, what could possibly go wrong with one small group of people controlling world banking.... Gee I wonder why the federal reserve and central banks exist. Really hard to figure out who controls those institutions.

Hey lets give unelected and unaccountable people control of our interest rates and money supply. No scam there....

What could possibly go wrong with one group of people controlling world banking AND a major share of world media. If you control the money you're in control. If you control the money and media you're god. Oh wait, I can't point out what unites all these people, they just happen to be Jewish. Means nothing... Just doing their job! Kind of like how almost all suicide bombers are muslims... means nothing. Just a funny coincidence.

Originally Posted by 310 Guy

You mean we're talking about a bunch of unemployed loser protestors who think profit is bad?

OWS? I would have turned the fire hoses on 'em...

They don't think profit is bad, the mainstream media has been trying to convey that message for awhile now by saying "they hate corporations yet they own iphones! what gives?"

They're against people who pretty much cheated their way to riches. If someone works hard and earns an honest living and becomes filthy rich they don't have a problem with that, that's awesome. It's the people that are screwing the innocent for their own greed and paying off the politicians so that they can continue to get away with it.

That's such a great post Duff, a simple 'Like' is not enough.

There was a comment recently in the OWS thread that surprised me: "90 pages and we still don't know what they're protesting."

I think everyone knows damn well what they're protesting. It's just a matter of whether you think "cheating your way to riches" is OK, or whether you think it's reached epic proportions and needs to be remedied.

Ever get the feeling that there's probably a few people hidden deep and from way back in time into the system, way richer than bill gates and buffet, but that nobody will ever really know who they are? I bet there's still a few of those hidden being your fed reserve and a few other schemes that go back a few hundreds years, as its how it started, did it ever change?

I normally don't read John's posts, but someone quoted him, and like looking at squashed armadillo on the highway, I HAD to look; anyway this is one of the times I have to agree with him, in part, anyway.

The Jewish people do tend to dominate financial services. Why is this?

In the middle ages, Jews (no pejorative intended) were forbidden to take on ANY work except money lending, which was considered below the dignity of a Christian. They learned the trade, were FORCED to stick together, and to depend on one another. They learned, that money lending lead to power, and they used it. Mostly behind the scenes, so as to avoid any possible pogroms.

I'm reminded of something Charles Payne, (a black guy, if you didn't know) of Fox Business news, said when he was asked by some condescending snipe if he would "help a brother" by hiring a black accountant?

He chuckled a bit, & said "No, I'd hire a Jew!"

Is that "Racist"?

Another anecdote on racism; I attended an air show in Florida a few years ago, and they had a gaggle of the Tuskeege airmen there to get some sort of award, and I had the opportunity to talk with one of them, over coffee. He was sitting alone, in the cafeteria tent, & I asked him if I could join him for a minute. Very fit for his age, not REALLY out going, but did allow me to sit. I'm all about airplanes, and don't give a shit about racism, but after a bit of aviation small talk, I did say "Must have been tough on y'all, training in the South, in those days, huh?"

He paused a minute, fixed me in a steely gaze, (face black as coal, but eyes coke bottle green) & said " You have no idea, son,.....(long pause) but if those crackers hadn't been so tough on us, just being crackers, doing what they do, we wouldn't have done as well as we did"

"They were so damn sure of themselves, thinking a Nigger (his word) couldn't fly or fight, they just treated us like they've treated us all their lives. If you weren't tough & smart, you washed out or quit. When it was over, all that was left was the sharpest, meanest pursuit pilots in the service. So, I guess I could say that without that brutal, racist treatment, I might not be here talking to you today...........probably not a popular opinion to have, though."

I don't know if he ever read Nietzsche, but it sure sounded like it.

I really didn't know what to think of this, or if my use of the word "Y'all" had reminded him of bad times, or maybe I, myself reminded him of one of the more odious of the peckerwoods he trained under. Who knows? Maybe he was having fun with me?

I did know, that I would not like to have that green eyed Negro on my "6", with his finger on the trigger of six fifty caliber machine guns, with the thought of a "master race" ass hole, back in the states, fresh in his mind.

Originally Posted by thruthefence

I normally don't read John's posts, but someone quoted him, and like looking at squashed armadillo on the highway, I HAD to look; anyway this is one of the times I have to agree with him, in part, anyway.

The Jewish people do tend to dominate financial services. Why is this?

I know what the history is. I'll ask a better question. Why is this important? John didn't answer. But John is big on sterotypes.