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Thread: The Baffling Reaction to OWS

  1. #81
    plastikosmd is offline Hot Rolled
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    If the audit story is true, that is too bad. In the long run, the appearance of preferential treatment to the OWS crowd will only serve to undermine any remaining legitimacy.

  2. #82
    iwananew10K is online now Titanium
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    i agree that the audit story seems more than a bit lop-sided. but on the other hand they requested services from the city and those services were provided. to the best of my knowledge OWS requested no services and none were provided.

    the threat of an audit because they requested a refund is major BS though. can`t support that.

  3. #83
    Peddler is offline Hot Rolled
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwananew10K View Post
    the threat of an audit because they requested a refund is major BS though. can`t support that.
    C'mon now.... 10k is pocket lint to the Koch Bros.

    As for the Tea Baggers being despised as much as the Palins, the Tea Party IS the Palins along with a bunch of Republicans who latched on to that train as it was getting up steam. Are we to suddenly believe the right has seen the light and are all about doing what is right for the country?
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  4. #84
    iwananew10K is online now Titanium
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    while we are talking about the tea party-

    something that puzzles me is the tea party started in reaction to the bailouts.

    what happened? where is the pressure? to the casual observer it might seem like the tea party`s own movement has been bought out from under them.

    i used to think they had common ground on that issue. maybe not after all.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwananew10K View Post
    something that puzzles me is the tea party started in reaction to the bailouts.

    what happened? where is the pressure? to the casual observer it might seem like the tea party`s own movement has been bought out from under them.
    They got bought-out. What started as a genuine grass-roots organization upset out TARP and the bailouts (the first 3 Tea Party protests) turned into an "astroturf" Palin/Beck circus heavily sponsored by Fox ("The Tea Party Express") and the Koch Brothers.

    Heartfelt concern about government corruption turned into a profit venue, culminating in the $550 tickets for the Tea Party National Convention in Nashville. Palin charging $100,000 speaker fees plus $18,000 for a private jet, then suing the Tea Party organizers for a share of the revenues. The Palazzo Hotel suing the "Tea Party Nation" (the incorporated organizer of the Tea Party events) for $550,000 because they reserved the whole hotel for the Los Vegas Tea Party "protest" and few people showed up...

    So yes, the Tea Party events were more organized, because they were managed as a professional event, and millions were made. How ironic.
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  6. #86
    iwananew10K is online now Titanium
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazlo View Post
    They got bought-out. What started as a genuine grass-roots organization upset out TARP and the bailouts (the first 3 Tea Party protests) turned into an "astroturf" Palin/Beck circus heavily sponsored by Fox ("The Tea Party Express") and the Koch Brothers.

    Heartfelt concern about government corruption turned into a profit venue, culminating in the $550 tickets for the Tea Party National Convention in Nashville. Palin charging $100,000 speaker fees plus $18,000 for a private jet, then suing the Tea Party organizers for a share of the revenues. The Palazzo Hotel suing the "Tea Party Nation" (the incorporated organizer of the Tea Party events) for $550,000 because they reserved the whole hotel for the Los Vegas Tea Party "protest" and few people showed up...

    So yes, the Tea Party events were more organized, because they were managed as a professional event, and millions were made. How ironic.
    i have no doubt that is actually the case. what i can`t figure out is why do any of the members still support it?
    i mean,crap- Palin SUES the Tea party for money(like she needs it)and they still support her?? it just seems so painfully obvioius..... i don`t get it.you would think they would protest Sarah Palin.

    edit-at the risk of stating the obvious, i suppose that might be why no one showed up at the Palazzo Hotel- the tea party is alive only in the media as a political tool. the movement itself is DOA.

  7. #87
    ColoradoBoy is offline Stainless
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazlo View Post
    WTF?! Why did we give the Royal Bank of Scotland and Barclays billions in 0% loans???

    Nothing against our British brethren, but that's a taxpayer bailout -- why were (are?) the taxpayers bailing-out foreign banks?!
    Rules of engagement for the Fed provides loans to any
    bank with a branch in the US.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoBoy View Post
    Rules of engagement for the Fed provides loans to any bank with a branch in the US.
    That was largely a rhetorical comment. The Fed fought fiercely to keep that list secret -- it took a Congressman to leak it for us to find out how much the Fed was lending for free, and to whom.

    The politically correct explanation is that the Fed was trying to stabilize the international banking community, but the reality is that we loaned billions of taxpayer dollars to the Brits, Germans, French, Swiss at effectively 0% interest...

  9. #89
    dave66 is offline Cast Iron
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Welden View Post
    Your reptilian conservative brain can't understand it. It's not your fault for being inferior. Hopefully your species will die out soon.
    Funny... I don't recall ever claiming to be a conservative. Or anything, for that matter. Because I'm not. Don't vote any party, don't participate in any political group, don't belong to any religion. Sorry... Guess you'll have to try to find another excuse to label me. I know hate mongers always love putting a label on everything... Makes it so much easier to have an excuse to talk s**t.

    And BTW... I don't believe for one fraction of a second that you have the balls to talk like this to people in person, like you claim.
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    Hoping than this is related to the OP then i can only say that much of what happens around the world today baffles me.

    To name a couple. Does anyone think for a minute that what is going on in north Africa just now will result in democracy in these countries as know it? Will any of us live long enough to see peace in Afghanistan?

    What happened with the Wall Street thing in a way (and no comparison is intended) is what started the Boston Tea Party. A large number of ordinary people felt angry enough to start protesting.

    One of the biggest differences of then and today is that the politicians that could do something nowadays are wearing two hats. One makes them say what they think people want to hear and the other what they think is best for themselves and help increase the financial backing they get. Politics nowadays is business and very few around the world are in it to make things better. Synical? Maybe, but I don't see much happening anywhere that makes me think differently.

    We've now had a new government in Denmark for 2 months and they must have the world record in breaking every political promise given during the election campaign. People aren't really angry yet but the stage is set.
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  11. #91
    Shooter7 is offline Plastic
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave66 View Post
    That's the problem... What exactly IS being said? Did you see the thing I posted about "Occupy Black Friday"?

    I don't think people nessecarily disagree with the message that started out in the begining with the whole OWS thing, and technically they probably still don't. But sorry, a large chunk of it HAS been taken over by..."spoiled, envious socialist loser hippies who are lazy".

    I agree, people tend to oversimplify and lump everything together. Of course, there are still people with a rational message and realistic goals. But they are being drowned out by the nuts.

    The way I look at it... It's fine to protest and try to change things. But at some point, it gets old. You have the majority of people in the country who are still working, still busting their butts, and still doing what it takes to make a living in the world that exists the way it exists... For better or worse. And then you have a bunch of people who have just basically been complaining for months now. I'm not saying they don't have anything to complain about. I'm just saying... OK, enough. Unless they organize better and take it to a higher level, this is as good as it's going to get... Non stop complaining. After a while, the people that are making the best of life the way it is, are just going to get sick of hearing about it. I mean, what do the protesters expect average people to do? Are we to all drop what we're doing, quit our businesses and jobs, and go sit in a park endlessly for months? Guess what... That's not going to happen.

    So they need to move to the next step up, and most importantly, they need a leadership that will start disconnecting the legit movement, from all the other nuts and BS that has attached itself to it. Otherwise, forget about it and get on with life. The truth is, there will always be people taking advantage. Always. So how long do you bang your head against the wall trying to change the world, before you just go with the flow and do the best you can the way it is.
    You are correct...the message has been hard to decipher, and it has been overwhelmed by the poor image... You really have to go out of your way to find out what the position of key leaders is....
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  12. #92
    Shooter7 is offline Plastic
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    Well said iwananew10K. As someone with a conservative/libertarian streak, I am just astounded about how brainwashed fools on both sides just fall right into the partisan argument instantly. Since when is THEFT a partisan issue?...and it IS THEFT. What is left of the productive capacity of the nation is literally being stolen right out from under us...

    People would rather criticize Jed Rakoff and call him a communist than admit that a liberal judge did the right thing. And he did.....as much as I HATE liberal judges and their judicial activism. Give the magnitude of the issues we face, those distinctions are minutiae at this point...

    Quote Originally Posted by iwananew10K View Post
    sorry, i meant to bow out of this thread. it`s hard to though when i keep hearing the same partisan BS over and over.

    look, Shooter laid it out for you plain as can be. it has absolutely nothing to do with partisanship.

    the politicians put on a big show to take the attention off what`s been going on.
    it`s like a professional wrestling match. a bunch of smack talk and bravado, then as soon as the cameras are turned off they go and have cocktails together.

    even if you don`t approve of OWS at least recognize the message is real.

    i know there are a lot of good people here that don`t want this going on.

    our children will have to live with the decisions we make today. i`m quoting Shooter`s original post to hopefully re-direct the conversation in a positive direction.

    the politicians are counting on us to jump on sides and point fingers at each other.

    how about we really screw `em over and leave partisanship at the door. we have done it before when the stakes were high and we had to pull together.

    i hope we can do it again. for all our sakes.

  13. #93
    Shooter7 is offline Plastic
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazlo View Post
    That was largely a rhetorical comment. The Fed fought fiercely to keep that list secret -- it took a Congressman to leak it for us to find out how much the Fed was lending for free, and to whom.

    The politically correct explanation is that the Fed was trying to stabilize the international banking community, but the reality is that we loaned billions of taxpayer dollars to the Brits, Germans, French, Swiss at effectively 0% interest...
    Everyone needs to pay attention to what the FED is doing NOW. The current situation of Zero Percent Rates, in conjunction with the Primary Dealer system creates a system of institutionalized theft. They play with house money, at zero percent. They get inside info that we dont hear a whiff of till 3 months after the fact...and they keep the winnings. Rinse...repeat. Every time they do this...they steal a little bit more. Who is paying? Look at your 401K balance 5 years from now...and you will know. The game is rigged people...and they are stealing from those who acted in the most responsible manner (savers, investors in productive capacity, etc.)
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    This might just clarify the problems

    Oxford University researchers have discovered the densest element yet known to science. The new element, Governmentium (symbol=Gv), has one neutron, 25 assistant neutrons, 88 deputy neutrons and 198 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312. These 312 particles are held together by forces called morons, which are surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles called pillocks

    Since Governmentium has no electrons, it is inert. However, it can be detected, because it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact.

    A tiny amount of Governmentium can cause a reaction that would normally take less than a second, to take from 4 days to 4 years to complete.

    Governmentium has a normal half-life of 2 to 6 years. It does not decay, but instead undergoes a reorganisation in which a portion of the assistant neutrons and deputy neutrons exchange places.

    In fact, Governmentium's mass will actually increase over time, since each reorganisation will cause more morons to become neutrons, forming isodopes. This characteristic of moron promotion leads some scientists to believe that Governmentium is formed whenever morons reach a critical concentration.

    This hypothetical quantity is referred to as a critical morass. When catalysed with money, Governmentium becomes Administratium (symbol=Ad), an element that radiates just as much energy as Governmentium, since it has half as many pillocks but twice as many morons.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave66 View Post
    Sorry... Guess you'll have to try to find another excuse to label me. I know hate mongers always love putting a label on everything...
    Oh don't worry, I'll find another label for you.

    I love how independents think they're special for not taking sides when all they're actually doing is being coward fucks that don't have the balls to take a position on anything. Or they're too fuckin stupid to see the vast differences in the parties. BOTH sides are just as bad! No difference at all between progressive democrats and neocons....

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter7 View Post
    Everyone needs to pay attention to what the FED is doing NOW. The current situation of Zero Percent Rates, in conjunction with the Primary Dealer system creates a system of institutionalized theft. They play with house money, at zero percent. They get inside info that we dont hear a whiff of till 3 months after the fact...and they keep the winnings. Rinse...repeat. Every time they do this...they steal a little bit more. Who is paying? Look at your 401K balance 5 years from now...and you will know. The game is rigged people...and they are stealing from those who acted in the most responsible manner (savers, investors in productive capacity, etc.)
    Thank you.

    No one cares though. Ron Paul and others have been screaming this shit for years. No one cares.
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  17. #97
    metlmunchr is offline Diamond
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    Shooter, I just want to say thanks for your posts in this thread. If this country was populated by more people like you, who look at the facts and make conclusions based on those facts, we'd be a lot better off than we are.

    Personally, I'm much like iwannanew10k in that I haven't changed to any appreciable degree in my political views over the past 40 years that I've been of voting age. Prior to 04, I'd never voted for a democrat for president and I've never failed to vote since I voted for Nixon in 72. Like you, I see no real difference in Thief(R) and Thief(D), and people who'll argue the technicalities of how some of the things this collection of trash do to enrich themselves isn't technically illegal just make me want to puke. I put them in the same category as those who would defend a child molester. Legalities aside, if you (the generic you) are willing to defend something that's so visibly wrong and immoral, then you're no better than the trash you defend.

    I was watching an interview a week or so ago with Peter Schweizer, the author of Throw Them All Out. He detailed Pelosi's interaction with Wells Fargo, and how she and her husband were able to make a $200K "investment" that's worth over $1 million today, based on insider info she got for her willingness to be for sale.

    Then they had Spencer Bachus on, blabbing about how he was going to hold hearings in whatever committe he chairs, related to congressional insider trading. They asked him about some investments he'd made immediately after congress got a non-public briefing on the state of the financial institutions in 08. He gets all innocent and pious sounding, and claims he bought GE 4 times right after that, under the assumption that everything was going to be okay. Tried to insinuate that he was the same sort of victim as the average American.

    Schweizer responded that Bachus was a liar, plain and simple. And then he proceeded to give a list of 16 or 17 trades Bachus made within a few weeks following that briefing, giving dates and who the trades were made with. Every damn one of them was with one hedge fund or another. IOW, the lying bastard was using the inside info to bet against GE Capital, and repeating it every time he could scrape up a few more bucks to put in the kitty.

    Having Bachus chair hearings on insider trading is about like having John Dillinger chair a hearing on the evils of bank robbery. The only difference being, I have more respect for Dillinger, or for the thug that robs the local convenience store, because they're both at least willing to assume some risk. The gutless criminal trash in DC weasels around and hides behind technicalities that make their actions legal while the same actions would get any of us jailed. In a more just world, we'd put Bachus and Pelosi in a cell with Big Bubba, and hope he anally abuses them both til their eyeballs pop out.

    Back to the original subject of this thread, the reaction among a lot of people is truly baffling. We have a few hardcore right wing dumb shits on here who seem incapable of grasping the fact that a group of people who don't have their heads jammed up the ass of the Koch Bros aren't necessarily aligned with the Dems either. That's the same mindset that labels me or Shooter or Lazlo or several others as a "leftie lib-tard", because, in their feeble minds anyone who's not in lockstep with the ultra right is, by default, a bleeding heart liberal. That they're willing to buy into the drivel of anyone out there who plays to their ignorance isn't all that baffling, and I doubt they'll wise up until they show up at work one day to find out that they're now among those other 14 million unemployed they've previously been willing to label as useless and lazy.

    The ones who really baffle me are the business owners who bust their butts to make $150K/yr for the privilege of paying the full published tax rate on every cent they make, while looking around and seeing people who make a thousand times, or ten thousand times as much income are paying rates somewhere between nothing and half the rate they're paying. Are these people not smart enough to figure out the whole "businessmen need to stick together" thing is self serving propaganda for the rich?

    Are they not smart enough to figure out GE doesn't give one goddamn how much tax Joe Machineshop pays, so long as he and everyone else pays enough that they can continue to pay nothing? They'll complain that it seems harder and harder to operate profitably every year (true for the average business), but they don't seem smart enough to grasp the fact that the financial racket (IMO it doesn't deserve to be called a business or industry) has quadrupled its share of total business profits over the last 30 years, from around 10% in 80 to roughly 40% today. Its that same "giant sucking sound" Ross Perot talked about, but its happening in NYC with the full cooperation of DC, rather than in Mexico. Is it really that hard to figure out where the problem is when a small group of people have figured out a way to suck out nearly half of all business profits without producing anything tangible at all? Are they all secret masochists who've actually enjoyed the screwing they've gotten over the last 3 or 4 years, compliments of that group of non-producing blood sucking parasites? It certainly seems so
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  18. #98
    Miguels244 is online now Diamond
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    Quote Originally Posted by metlmunchr View Post
    The ones who really baffle me are the business owners who bust their butts to make $150K/yr for the privilege of paying the full published tax rate on every cent they make, while looking around and seeing people who make a thousand times, or ten thousand times as much income are paying rates somewhere between nothing and half the rate they're paying. Are these people not smart enough to figure out the whole "businessmen need to stick together" thing is self serving propaganda for the rich?
    It's like the Chamber of Commerce.
    There's movement to have local Chambers pull out because they do not represent local business.
    All the Chamber does is raise the barriers of entry for new competition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Welden View Post
    Oh don't worry, I'll find another label for you.

    I love how independents think they're special for not taking sides when all they're actually doing is being coward fucks that don't have the balls to take a position on anything. Or they're too fuckin stupid to see the vast differences in the parties.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Welden View Post
    Or they're too fuckin stupid to see the vast differences in the parties. BOTH sides are just as bad! No difference at all between progressive democrats and neocons....
    It might be different "over there" but "over here" I've never been able to see any real difference in either of your two parties. If anyone wants to see "vast" differences they should tour Europe

    You do though have good and not so good presidents
    He might not have been perfect (hell, who is?) but Reagan is still my favourite

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