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Thread: Chinese company knocks off Ford F150

  1. #41
    Modelman is offline Stainless
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    I'm told a problem with miniature ponies / horses is they are hard to train for riding... because they are so small, they can't be ridden by adults, and little kids don't have the strength and focus needed.

    Back to the Chicom redneckmobile... will it be available with cheap plastic imitation long horns?

    Dennis

  2. #42
    PDW
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    [QUOTE=Ries;1746838][QUOTE=smalltime;1746407]
    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post

    Actually, China is the number one market for Rolls Royce, worldwide- the Chicoms seem to have no problem allowing Chinese to buy BOTH 453 horsepower Phantoms and 30hp minitrucks.

    Americans dont buy low powered cars and trucks. Stripper models just plain dont sell here. If they did, dealers would have em.
    Not necessarily that simple. Friend of mine is a data mining expert, consults to the big car companies including Ford. Profit margin on a big, fully optioned vehicle is at least 5X the profit margin on a small base model vehicle. There's a real incentive to upsell by whatever means can be managed and making it hard to buy the bottom of the range models is one strategy that was widely used. It came unstuck here due to competition from imports offering vehicles that GM & Ford simply wouldn't build.

    From what you're saying, that doesn't apply in the USA. Those fuel-efficient turbo diesel 4WD's etc we get aren't available to you because of import barriers so there's no incentive for the manufacturers to cannibalise their high profit margin sales by offering one.

    At least, until someone else starts building them locally and then listen to the screams....

    PDW

  3. #43
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    Actually, its not exactly "import barriers"- its air quality rules.
    which means, yes, existing Isuzu or even Ford turbo diesel models cannot be imported into the USA, but the rules were not made to protect domestic manufacturing.
    In fact, almost all of the diesels that DO meet US standards are imports- its just that Mercedes, VW, and BMW were the only companies that were willing to spend the money to make their diesel models compliant with the standards.
    This was for cars.

    Part of the problem with trucks is that the US market is pretty Unique. The average american light truck buyer expects really high speed and high acceleration, and wants a physically big vehicle as well. In most parts of the USA, parking is not a big problem, and Americans LIKE big cars. Many people on this forum will diss small cars just on principle, and thats common all across america. Small cars are considered to be for people who cant afford better.

    There is some market penetration of american style pickups in South and Central America, but, other than that, pretty much nobody else, worldwide, is much interested in what we call a "full size" pickup. Smaller, 4 door, turbo diesel trucks, what they call "technicals" in the middle east when you put a machine gun on the back- those sell really well everywhere else in the world. But here, we want BIG.

    As far as stripper models go- I am one of the few people I know who actually put their money where their mouth is, and bought one new. The vast majority of the cars I have owned in my life have been used, but I have bought 6 new cars, and one of them was a Ford F150, like the ones being discussed. I went to the dealer and DEMANDED one with rubber floor mats, vinyl bench seat, roll up windows, and electric nothing. It turns out that they were extremely rare- it had to come in from about 1200 miles away. But I insisted, I got one, and I saved probably ten thousand dollars over the existing models on the lot.
    Most people wont do this, and, truth be told, dont really want to. They actually want power windows and doorlocks, digital compasses, leather interiors, and lots of chrome. Virtually every dealer in the USA does brisk business ADDING more expensive crap to trucks after they are sold- Americans are like Bower Birds, we love shiny trash.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    ...Americans are like Bower Birds, we love shiny trash.
    We used to call those "chrome gofasters"

    I think we've had this discussion before... Ive never had any problem getting a "stripper" truck with a big engine and a tow package... I just walk into the dealership and tell them I want to ORDER a truck. After twenty minutes of trying to sell me what is on the lot, they concede that can't do it for the price I'm willing to pay, and then they sit down and write the order. Of course, I have to wait six to eight weeks for it to be delivered, but hey, I don't need it yesterday; I schedule when I'm going to replace our vehicles.

    I have to admit, this may not work well with car class vehicles... when we went to replace Momma's Jeep Cherokee Sport, the best deal looked like a Ford Escape. Can you believe the cheapest model only comes with a WHITE interior? WHAT are they thinking... probably that no one in their right mind wants a white interior in a utility vehicle, and they're right. Ordering wasn't an option... they DO NOT MAKE the bottom of the line with a dark interior, no order code. So, yes, they did get me to upgrade a couple dollars... goes against my principles, but...

    Dennis

  5. #45
    greenbuggy is online now Hot Rolled
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    And then you get to pay 50 to 75 cents more per gallon than regular gas... except if everybody drove diesel vehicles it would be more like $1.00 more per gallon extra for diesel fuel due to increased demand...
    ...I don't think its that black and white. Diesel fuel price goes up, demand for gas vehicles goes up, eventually it will level out until crude prices change again. I think there's a bit of a market here for smaller diesel trucks and SUV's and especially smaller cars, if only our EPA would stop screwing over everybody trying to make a cleaner diesel with ever-changing fuel specs and ever-increasing strict emissions regs countrywide.

    God damnit, I want a DIESEL VW Toureg Pickup! And I'm PISSED I can't get one here!
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  6. #46
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    [QUOTE][QUOTE=Ries;As far as stripper models go- I am one of the few people I know who actually put their money where their mouth is, and bought one new. The vast majority of the cars I have owned in my life have been used, but I have bought 6 new cars, and one of them was a Ford F150, like the ones being discussed. I went to the dealer and DEMANDED one with rubber floor mats, vinyl bench seat, roll up windows, and electric nothing. It turns out that they were extremely rare- it had to come in from about 1200 miles away. But I insisted, I got one, and I saved probably ten thousand dollars over the existing models on the lot.
    Most people wont do this, and, truth be told, dont really want to. They actually want power windows and doorlocks, digital compasses, leather interiors, and lots of chrome. Virtually every dealer in the USA does brisk business ADDING more expensive crap to trucks after they are sold- Americans are like Bower Birds, we love shiny trash.[/QUOTE]

    I'm with you. I'm 72, I have never owned a new car. Even when I was making good money I bought a 3 year old BMW with 54,000 miles on it. Lately I like economy. My daily driver is a 1988 Ford Festiva, designed by Mazda and sold in Asia as a Mazda 121, built by KIA and sold as the Kia Pride, imported by Ford. 40MPG on the road, 32 around town, fun to drive, zippy if you stir the 4 or 5 speed. Engines last over 300,000 miles with decent care, really nice heating, fresh air, AC system. 12 inch tires are hard to find lately.

    1988 Festiva Reviews. Buying Guides & Consumer Product Reviews - Epinions.com

    Iran makes a Pride pick up:

    Redirect Notice

    As to all the junk on modern vehicles - my flying instructor said: "if it ain't on the aircraft, it ain't gonna break". Works for cars too.

    Here is a site that imports the little Japanese pick ups that are not street legal in the US. I have seen and sat in a Honda cab over a bit longer than my Festiva; roomy cab, big bed, great visibility. Can't have it.

    Japanese Mini Trucks, Kei Trucks, Mini vans, Pickups, Off Road Trucks, Exporters, Dealers in Japan

    Paul
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Welden View Post
    I hate that the europeans get all the cool diesel cars.
    What, you can't buy a TDI VW, Audi etc.?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Welden View Post
    My days of driving around like a dip shit are long gone.
    But not your days of acting like one. LOL

    Tom
    Last edited by 67Cuda; 02-04-2012 at 09:46 AM.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmatov View Post
    The picture ain't an F-150, and even if it was, does any one here not think that Ford, AND, GM, AND Chrysler have plants IN China.

    Ford had plants all over the world, many years ago. South America. I guess there was some problem there. Now all they seem to be able to make is '50's, '60's model cars, brand new '55's.

    Automakers always tell us it costs a Billion bucks to change over. How do the Chinese get the dies to stamp the latest model year sheet metal?

    Why do you call this "knockoff", if they are making a model with a 2.8 Litre Diesel, instead of the US standard of about 7 litres?

    I don't know, I would think that they are making a vehicle equivalent to our C10 or F150, but it MAY not get to 60 as quick as a 400 CI engine.

    Would that be ALL that important to some of you who bitch about fuel cost? I know lots, not all, of you have duallys, BIG motor, and I am here to tell you that you could not put a load behind my '70 GMC with the 4 speed 250 that it would not pull.

    I had to wind up my own windows. I could put up with that.

    Ah well.
    George
    This is the F150 knockoff.


    As Ries said it isn't F150ish from the side as the Ford has convex sheetmetal on the bottom part of the door. The Chinese just lump together designs from different auto mfgs but overall the pickup does resemble an F150 specifically the front right down to the blue Oval.

    I would think it is pretty easy to take the real F150 and make a mold / die of the plastic bits and sheetmetal. Although if this is low volume production, they can just make the hood and other panels from FRP or carbon fiber.

  9. #49
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    I wanted a basic full size truck back in '98 and I had to order it. I wanted vinyl seats & floor, crank up windows, manual trans and 4x4. I ended up ordering a '99 Dodge, but it wasn't even easy-- one dealer refused to do it. Can you believe that? I told the salesman that I WAS GOING TO BUY the very truck i described, but he didn't have it on the lot and kept trying to sell me a ton of luxuries that were not useful to me all the while telling me the resale would be nothing on what i wanted. Of course, 14 years years later, I still haven't cashed in on that almighty resale value.

  10. #50
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    I have 2, 09 tdi jetta wagons in the stable here,and a 96 GMC 12ft stake 3500 as well.

    The GMC sits waiting for its chance to work.

    The wifes Jetta is our cruiser,mine is back seats removed,plywood floor 1/4 ton hauler.
    wifey gets 45mpg, i get bout 40mpg in mine.

    Had a dodge D50 4 cyl. diesel,nice little truck,had Shevette in the 80s wit a diesel,
    I am a believer,yep,libral as hell too!!!
    Gw

  11. #51
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    Chinese don't just copy cars,machinery,widgets etc....they will also copy an entire Austrian town , and do it secretly without telling the locals. Naturally the Austrians are a bit miffed at how Chinese architects secretly scoped out their town.I think these copy towns are a sort of tourist attraction in China.



    Austrian UNESCO World Heritage village outraged at plans for Chinese copy - Telegraph

    "Residents of an Austrian village, a UNESCO World Heritage site, have voiced their outrage that China plans to copy their hamlet and build their own version. "



    After taking photos and collecting other data on the village while mingling with the tourists, a Chinese firm has started to rebuild much of Hallstatt in faraway Guandong province.

    Although publicly, Hallstatters say they are proud that their village has caught the eye, others have voiced their outrage about the fact they were not consulted about the plans to replicate it.

    Alexander Scheutz, the Hallstatt mayor, said the plan was a "compliment to our village", but said he was "definitely a bit stunned" by the project.

    Hotel owner Monika Wenger added: "I don't like the idea of knowing that a team was present here for years measuring, and photographing and studying us.


    "I would have expected them to approach us directly – the whole thing reminds of a bit of Big Brother is watching.


  12. #52
    camscan is offline Hot Rolled
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    I drive a Jeep Cherokee 2.5 TD, I expect 40 to the imperial gallon local and have got over 50 on a run. I tow a caravan 1.5 tons all up and get 27 mpg. Can you not get that engine? As for Spud, is yours the latest engine in the 110 because they do differ. Oh Spud, I do have to ask, who owns Land Rover?

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    I drive a Jeep Cherokee 2.5 TD, I expect 40 to the imperial gallon local and have got over 50 on a run. I tow a caravan 1.5 tons all up and get 27 mpg. Can you not get that engine? As for Spud, is yours the latest engine in the 110 because they do differ. Oh Spud, I do have to ask, who owns Land Rover?
    My Landie is a 1993 North American Spec. D110. It was the only year the Defender 110 was imported into the US. LRNA imported 500 for America and 25 for Canada, and as a result of low supply and huge demand, the prices are ridiculous for used examples. Only in America is a used 110 cost about as much as a nicely kitted new Disco. Last year a low mileage excellent condition NAS Defender 110 sold for $80grand in the US, at auction.

    It came from the factory with an internal rollbar and external 6 point rollcage, to satisfy DOT. The engine is a Rover 3.5L V8 which is a redesigned Buick V8. Gas mileage is horrendous, about 8-10 mpg. So I have been wanting to repower with a diesel and dont want the diesels offered in UK Defenders cause they are too underpowered.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    I drive a Jeep Cherokee 2.5 TD, I expect 40 to the imperial gallon local and have got over 50 on a run. I tow a caravan 1.5 tons all up and get 27 mpg. Can you not get that engine? As for Spud, is yours the latest engine in the 110 because they do differ. Oh Spud, I do have to ask, who owns Land Rover?

    The 2.5 liter VM Motori turbo diesel was never sold in the USA in a Cherokee as far as I know.
    VM Motori is a Fiat/GM co-owned company, and I believe that engine was made in Italy.

    2011+ VM Motori V6 Diesel Engines

    We got Cherokee's here with almost exclusively the 4 liter inline six. They did offer a smaller inline 4, but those were not as popular here. Americans like POWER. Although I almost bought the pickup version, the Commanche, in about 1988, and the 177 hp inline 6 was not exactly a race car. I test drove one, and decided on a Nissan, made in Tennesee, instead, which served me well for over 15 years.

    In general, small turbo diesels are, and have been, quite rare in the USA, usually only available in imported cars- right now, due to US air quality laws, only BMW, Mercedes, Audi and VW offer passenger cars with diesels.
    All three large american trucks are available with large diesels- Ford,6.7 liter V8, Chevy, 6.6 liter V8, Dodge, 6.7 liter TD.

    Honda is threatening to sell a diesel in the USA, but so far has not.

    And thats it- all the other diesel cars you can buy in the UK, from every major manufacturer, are not sold here. No diesel Minis, or Infinitis or Hyundais, NO diesel Land Rovers, NO diesel Jeeps, No diesel Smart Cars, and, of course, no Renaults, Fiats, Citroens, SEAT's, Skodas, Peugots, Alfa Romeos or Vauxhalls are sold here at all, diesel or no diesel.
    digger doug likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenbuggy View Post
    if only our EPA would stop screwing over everybody trying to make a cleaner diesel with ever-changing fuel specs and ever-increasing strict emissions regs countrywide.

    God damnit, I want a DIESEL VW Toureg Pickup! And I'm PISSED I can't get one here!
    Goddamit, I want a BRAND NEW VW Diesel Rabbit 1981-ish!

    The EPA has the diesel engine right by the nuts and they're squeezing harder & harder.
    But....since when has the US Govt NOT been able to fuck up a good thing?

    Soon we'll be back to damn ole spark ignition engines.....even in big rigs
    They are already playing with CNG platforms.
    Perish the thought!

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg White View Post
    I have 2, 09 tdi jetta wagons in the stable here,
    mine is back seats removed,plywood floor 1/4 ton hauler.
    Gw
    That works a lot better with a Golf or Rabbit hatch back of course.....
    I used to haul 8ft lumber and 10ft conduit in mine

  16. #56
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    Spud, you didnt come back ref. Jaguar/ Land Rover owners. You are half way safe because it isnt the yellow peril, think curry. There is a V6 diesel LR engine which doesnt hang about, built by Ford I believe, the previous owners of Jaguar/Land Rover

  17. #57
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