Idon't know if this will survive the light of day.

Last evening, our local Con radio talk show had a rep of Alcoa on. He was crying about the taxes in yesterday's paper. That the Obama Admin was going to bring their taxes due up to date.

To listen to him, and the "How bad I feel for you." from the host, you would think they were taxing them way more than they are presently being. The more you listened, the more it sounded as though they were simply refusing to pay taxes on earned income, today, because they made a large profit, and would have to pay ON that profit.

They would prefer to not pay NOW, but to pay LATER, a couple years in the future, when profits might be higher because they have all that unpaid tax money to work with.Threat is that they will move out of the country if they have to.

It seems to me that if they are NOT paying those taxes due now, then if we have a tax shortage now, they are major contributors to that shortage. Nor did the article say that it is THIS year, or last year, or a number of year's taxes that they will only pay when it is convenient to them, or advantageous to them.

You and I don't have the option of telling the Gov that we will pay this year's taxes in 2012, because we think our tax bill will be lower then, or that we will have made so much money then, that it will be a minor hit to the bottom line.

Cheers,

George

Sorry George, but I've lost track of how many of bama's people failed to pay taxes till they "had to." Corporations have been fleeing our shores for my entire life to evade the taxes imposed on them. Alcoa trying to throw some weight is nothing new.

The only comfort I have in what you're saying is that they're not asking for a handout like every other employer these days.

They must read the same playbook big sports uses... "Gimme a free stadium or I'm taking my ball and going home!"

I say let the ungrateful bastiges go offshore (as it all todays business 'leaders' seem to know how to do anyhow!) but tax the crap out of anything they IMPORT here!

In normal times we're quite the consumer nation. Normal times being when we are working and making a decent wage. These businesses raped us of our jobs and good wages and now want to be rewarded for it? Screw 'em... tell 'em to &#@^ off and go find customers in Bangladesh!

Companies should pay ZERO tax.
Only individuals should pay tax.
The government spent too much thats why there is a "shortage".


You are right gmat.
It's totaly UNFAIR.
But poking business in the eye isn't going help me.
Graduated...flat...progressive....:blahb lah:
Total system fix required.

SM

So, as a business owner would you pay taxes?

That sounds wonderful.

My small corporation would then have the most lavish offices with servants you could ever imagine with no taxes to pay. I'd probably sell my house and just hang out in the office and let the cook fix meals whenever I'm hungry and too busy working to leave.

All that tax free. I like it.

Yes.
I would pay the same as everyone else.
It wouldn't matter if I were a monk or a business owner.

SM

No it wouldn't.
Under "my" system you would have to pay your employees a realistic wage.
That would probably be more than they are getting now.
Their tax would be the same as yours.

SM

You've been drinking Ayn Rand's koolaid.

Sorry Jim – the Fleeing Taxes argument doesn’t seem to wash

You don’t think being able to pay Starvation Wages for labor has any thing to do with it?

Take Intel’s operation in Philippines / Indonesia for instance. Granted they do get some concessions on the 40% tariffs imposed on raw materials and equipment from entering the facility. But they also had to build and maintain the facilities own Power Generation equipment because the surrounding grid is unreliable and under-sized to service their operation.

Also because there is not water or waste-water treatment systems they had to build and maintain those facilities too.

Additionally they have to hire an entourage of armed security. Not just for the facility but additional guards for the company executives living near by in the gated community they had to build for them. They also have armed guards escort visiting personnel to and from the airport. When you’re surrounded by starving masses – Kidnapping becomes a lucrative “Business Venture”.

Then of course you have to pay “Grease Money” to political officials. I’ve seen suits with brief cases of money before. Not only once but every election cycle. Additionally in these countries you also have to pay “Insurance Money” to terrorist groups to leave your facility and personnel alone

But at the end of ALL that – you get to pay your workers $2 a day with no benifits

Quite the opposite.
I don't know much about Ayn Rand.
Don't care either.
I knew when I wrote "corporations shouldn't pay taxes" someone would accuse me of being a right wing crazy.
So predictable.
So explain to me Professor Stan, since I'm just a koolaid drinking parrot, why should a corporation pay taxes ?

SM

Which is fascinating, as a chip fab costs $2 billion or more, but only takes a relative handful of people to run.

There are other for locating chip fabs in asia. Labor costs have NOTHING to do with it.

Much as I hate paying taxes, the reason corporations have to pay taxes is really simple: If they didn't, then my salary will be a generous $1, and my company will make all the money. Further, I won't have direct employees, all my current employees will be told to set up as contractors instead. As long as income is taxed, corporate income has to be. Its trivially easy to game otherwise.

But in the end, doesn't any company, greedy or ethically run, consider taxes a cost of production?
So in the end, aren't all corporate taxes passed on to the customer?
So in the end, the customer pays the tax, not the corporation.

George, you want to see Alcoa flee the country real fast, just wait till Obama's carbon tax hits them, then they will really flee!!!! Last I heard the cost of electricity makes up something like 70% of the aluminum, how the heck will Alcoa be able to stomach a 30%+ increase on their domestic cost of production thanks our president?

Adam

businesses don't pay taxes. Overhead is factored into the price of the product. They simply collect taxes from the rubes and pass it on to the government.

If you start a business and eat the taxes you won't last long.

I'm sure Intel wishes it only took a handful of employees to run a chip facility

Yes.
Thats why it is so stupid to collect taxes from a corporation.
For small companies it's pain in the ass and big expense to figure out how little to pay. Big companys have armys of accountants and lawyers just figuring how to dodge a bizantine tax system. These resources could go to actually producing something of value. You know....MAKE STUFF.

SM

Companies don't pay taxes, customers do. Alcoa's big problem is that if they have to pass that tax cost along to their customers they will not be able to compete with the other companies in the world that don't simple as that. Corporate tax rates look like this

Taxable income over Not over Tax rate

$ 0 $ 50,000 15%
50,000 75,000 25%
75,000 100,000 34%
100,000 335,000 39%
335,000 10,000,000 34%
10,000,000 15,000,000 35%
15,000,000 18,333,333 38%
18,333,333 .......... 35%

Notice the HIGHEST rate in that list, 39%, look where that falls corporate income wise. Yep, you got it, STICK IT TO THE SMALL BUSINESS! The only country that has higher corporate tax than the USA is Japan, and that is by a SMALL margin. I am sure the Obamanation will push us strongly to the top of the list.

We, as a country, are already taxed almost beyond belief, increasing corporate taxes just assures that more and more companies will relocate offshore, and more americans will be left to fight for the remaining service jobs.

On edit, realize that these rates listed here are Federal corporate rates only, in some states a corporation might pay as much as an additional 12%.

taxes are due..they had better pay them ..if they go to move out of country hold all accounts in limbo til the balance is paid.




Personally ,I would prefer either a direct tax apportioned on goods services or an excise tax and finally tariffs on imports. It would be convenient if the tax code was simplified to just a couple sheets of paper. I believe it was before the 1950s corporations paid most of the taxes in the USA . Currently we are upside down the people pay most of the taxes and corporations pay very little if any taxes.


If I could simplify the tax code .....If 10 % is good enough for the good Lord for a tithe then government gets 10 % or less total on these taxes : property, sales , income,etc.
Tariffs would not change to protect from dumping.

But then the congress critters would not have as much control over people.
That's why they don't want it that way.

SM