Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 129
Like Tree34Likes

Thread: Payroll tax cut good for the US?

  1. #101
    dp
    dp is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Puget Sound, Washington
    Posts
    3,204

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lazlo View Post
    "Used to work for..." -- that's an amusing euphemism for "Former CEO of Halliburton who holds a quarter of a billion dollars in Halliburton stock and mastermind of the Iraq war..."
    FactCheck.org: Kerry Ad Falsely Accuses Cheney on Halliburton


    There's an interesting site that tracks the problem of misconduct. Here's the dirt on KBR:

    Contractor Profile - Federal Contractor Misconduct Database - POGO

    The top 100 list is here:
    Home - Federal Contractor Misconduct Database - POGO

  2. #102
    lazlo's Avatar
    lazlo is offline Diamond
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    4,405

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazlo
    "Used to work for..." -- that's an amusing euphemism for "Former CEO of Halliburton who holds a quarter of a billion dollars in Halliburton stock and mastermind of the Iraq war..."
    FactCheck.org: Kerry Ad Falsely Accuses Cheney on Halliburton
    That may be true, but whatever Kerry claimed has nothing to do with the fact that Cheney holds 433,333 shares of Halliburton which radically increased in value after 9/11, and he earned a deferred Halliburton salary of $200,000/year while he was Vice President.

    Most telling: his net worth was $50 million (mostly in Halliburton stock) when he took office in 2000. His net worth when he left office was $95 million

    History's Highest-Priced Ticket - Forbes.com

    24. Cheney

    "Cheney continues to hold 433,333 Halliburton stock options, and receives a deferred salary of about $200,000 a year. According to Cheney’s most recent tax returns, he held $2.5 million in retirement accounts, much of which likely came from his former defense firm.

    Cheney recently filed disclosure reports that show he is valued at $94 million."
    John Welden and JoeE. like this.

  3. #103
    dp
    dp is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Puget Sound, Washington
    Posts
    3,204

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lazlo View Post
    That may be true, but whatever Kerry claimed has nothing to do with the fact that Cheney holds 433,333 shares of Halliburton which radically increased in value after 9/11, and he earned a deferred Halliburton salary of $200,000/year while he was Vice President.
    Since you obviously didn't read the link I posted I'll give you a taster:

    Stock Options

    That still would leave the possibility that Cheney could profit from his Halliburton stock options if the company's stock rises in value. However, Cheney and his wife Lynne have assigned any future profits from their stock options in Halliburton and several other companies to charity. And we're not just taking the Cheney's word for this -- we asked for a copy of the legal agreement they signed, which we post here publicly for the first time.

    The "Gift Trust Agreement" the Cheney's signed two days before he took office turns over power of attorney to a trust administrator to sell the options at some future time and to give the after-tax profits to three charities. The agreement specifies that 40% will go to the University of Wyoming (Cheney's home state), 40% will go to George Washington University's medical faculty to be used for tax-exempt charitable purposes, and 20% will go to Capital Partners for Education, a charity that provides financial aid for low-income students in Washington, DC to attend private and religious schools.

    The agreement states that it is "irrevocable and may not be terminated, waived or amended," so the Cheney's can't take back their options later.

    The options owned by the Cheney's have been valued at nearly $8 million, his attorney says. Such valuations are rough estimates only -- the actual value will depend on what happens to stock prices in the future, which of course can't be known beforehand. But it is clear that giving up rights to the future profits constitutes a significant financial sacrifice, and a sizable donation to the chosen charities.

    And that's just the stock options you (and Kerry) are going on about. You should visit the link.

  4. #104
    JoeE. is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,805

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dp View Post
    However, Cheney and his wife Lynne have assigned any future profits from their stock options in Halliburton and several other companies to Charity.
    Charity who? Charity Cheney?


    "The agreement states that it is "irrevocable and may not be terminated, waived or amended," so the Cheney's can't take back their options later."

    Just like a pre-nup wedding agreement, huh. Those can never be overturned, right? That's what lawyers are for. Think the Cheneys know any lawyers? That's like Warren Buffet giving away his zillions after he dies- but he's giving it to the Bill and What's her name Gates foundation, then they give away what's left after administrative costs. Administrative costs can get out of hand, I bet.

    I say if the Cheneys are gonna give it away, give it right now, not at a future, indeterminate date. Sell the stock and cash in all the chips and give it to charity R.F.N.~ that is if you really plan on giving it away.

  5. #105
    John Welden's Avatar
    John Welden is offline Diamond
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kirkland, WA
    Posts
    5,802

    Default

    Cheney is a sociopath interested in seeing people die. I doubt he's really motivated all that much by money.

    I'm sure he's well taken care of by all the companies that made billions off his war shit. That stock he gave away doesn't matter.

    Hope his heart gives out for good soon.

  6. #106
    smalltime's Avatar
    smalltime is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    1,769

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Welden View Post
    Cheney is a sociopath interested in seeing people die. I doubt he's really motivated all that much by money.

    I'm sure he's well taken care of by all the companies that made billions off his war shit. That stock he gave away doesn't matter.

    Hope his heart gives out for good soon.
    Merry Christmas John,
    There are any number of sociopaths in government. There's one I can think of that has spent our children into a debt that will be an albotross around thier necks for a hundred years. He need a dirt nap too.


  7. #107
    lazlo's Avatar
    lazlo is offline Diamond
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    4,405

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by smalltime View Post
    There are any number of sociopaths in government. There's one I can think of that has spent our children into a debt that will be an albotross around thier necks for a hundred years. He need a dirt nap too.
    You mean Bush, right?

    Bush increased the national debt by $4.9 trillion plus the lifetime cost of the Iraq War (estimated around $4.5 trillion so far).
    Iraq war will cost more than World War II - CSMonitor.com

    Obama has increased the national debt by $4 trillion (so far), but then again the first 9 months of Obama's tenure was Bush's budget.

    Neither is an example of fiscal responsiblity. On the other hand, a large portion of both Bush and Obama's debt increase was the ~ $3.5 trillion in Wall Street bailouts...

  8. #108
    spope14 is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Claremont, NH
    Posts
    1,631

    Default

    Back to the idea of how the payroll tax cut helped me. Back last year when this started I had these dreams of all that cash flowing into my pocket and how I would look in my new black Caddilac Escalade, All said and done, I used the cash to put an extra 1/4 tank of gas in my Ford Ranger

  9. #109
    dp
    dp is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Puget Sound, Washington
    Posts
    3,204

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE. View Post
    I say if the Cheneys are gonna give it away, give it right now, not at a future, indeterminate date. Sell the stock and cash in all the chips and give it to charity R.F.N.~ that is if you really plan on giving it away.
    The charities are described above:
    The agreement specifies that 40% will go to the University of Wyoming (Cheney's home state), 40% will go to George Washington University's medical faculty to be used for tax-exempt charitable purposes, and 20% will go to Capital Partners for Education, a charity that provides financial aid for low-income students in Washington, DC to attend private and religious schools.

    They are giving away the future profits. Same way the Nobel prize works. The prize money comes from investments of Nobel's fortune. If it had all been given away there would be no future. As it is, the money is earning enough to pay out quite a bit to Nobel prize winners after all these years.

    That is the idea behind Cheney's stock holdings. They will continue to earn forever so long as some portion remains invested. In 2008 those options were worth $8,165,489.07 from an original value of aroun $250,000. That excess goes to charity. How can that be a bad thing?

  10. #110
    smalltime's Avatar
    smalltime is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    1,769

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dp View Post
    How can that be a bad thing?
    Cheney- BAD

    Obama- GOOD

    Bush- BAD

    Holder - GOOD

    Rumsfeld- BAD

    Axlerod-GOOD

  11. #111
    metron9 is offline Aluminum
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Minnesota U.S.A.
    Posts
    137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Welden View Post
    I heard on FOX news that Nancy Pelosi eats the heads off of babies.

    You're too fucking stupid to see that you're getting ass raped by republican polices. Can't fucking stand you dip shits. Gee, I wonder why the republicans are against banking regulation? Really hard to figure that one out.

    The economy shrank 8.5% between 2007 and 2008. Lost one million jobs on Obama's first month in office. But hey, lets forget all that. Blame the economy on Obama and Pelosi. Typical dumb fuck conservative dip shit logic.
    The real problem is when you buy the crap either side promotes.

    15.1 Trillion debt today
    17.6 Trillion CBO projection by 2015 (4 years from now)
    23.8 Trillion at they current rate of spending

    So we take on another 8 Trillion in 4 years? The Federal income is only 2.3 Trillion but they spend double that now. BOTH parties SPEND IT!

    The main problem I believe is just what happened in this last extension bill. Like the OP says, 90% would vote for it but then someone comes along and uses that to get a pipeline! Could be and i think it is a very good idea to allow the pipeline BUT NOT HOLD HOSTAGE some other legislation.

    When your CNC goes down and you need a new spindle you may discuss the pros and cons of what to replace it with, perhaps you have a plan to sell that machine and buy a newer one, perhaps you can fix it. I can tell you one thing though, If I were in business and my machine went down that I make a living with and my partner said he would only vote to repair or buy a new one if we also set aside twice as much money to fund his dream trip to the moon I think we would have a problem.

    The compromise concept they have in Washington should be called what it is, Blackmail. At least they should compromise within the same subject matter and not hold hostage a decision to repair a hole in the roof that lets in all the rain and a vacation to Hawaii.
    BOTH PARTIES SUCK SHIT! Stop fighting your brothers and sisters who are in the same dam boat you are in, you may need their help when the the music finally stops, and it will stop just like the Nasdaq did 10 years ago. That was a 25 year ride up and just a few short years down. How long has this massive debt been building? Are you ready? It is unsustainable and un fixable without a massive correction.

    Others here have pointed out the cure is now as bad as the status quo. It really is too late to fix it.

  12. #112
    lazlo's Avatar
    lazlo is offline Diamond
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    4,405

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by metron9 View Post
    The real problem is when you buy the crap either side promotes.

    BOTH PARTIES SUCK SHIT! Stop fighting your brothers and sisters who are in the same dam boat you are in, you may need their help when the the music finally stops, and it will stop just like the Nasdaq did 10 years ago. That was a 25 year ride up and just a few short years down. How long has this massive debt been building? Are you ready? It is unsustainable and un fixable without a massive correction.

    Others here have pointed out the cure is now as bad as the status quo. It really is too late to fix it.
    Very well said.

  13. #113
    lazlo's Avatar
    lazlo is offline Diamond
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    4,405

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dp View Post
    They are giving away the future profits.
    For stock options. Not for Cheney's stock holdings.

    How the hell do you think his net worth is now $95 million, when it was $40 million when he was elected?

  14. #114
    dp
    dp is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Puget Sound, Washington
    Posts
    3,204

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lazlo View Post
    For stock options. Not for Cheney's stock holdings.

    How the hell do you think his net worth is now $95 million, when it was $40 million when he was elected?
    What stock holdings are you worrying over if not Halliburton? All the Halliburton stock he has is in the trust. Doubling your money in 10 years is not rocket science.

  15. #115
    lazlo's Avatar
    lazlo is offline Diamond
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    4,405

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dp View Post
    What stock holdings are you worrying over if not Halliburton? All the Halliburton stock he has is in the trust. Doubling your money in 10 years is not rocket science.
    Dennis, a stock option is very different than a stock you own outright. The vast majority of his net worth is Halliburton stock.

    Doubling your money in 10 years is not rocket science.
    Yes, especially since the Dow and NASDAQ are flat over the same period. Then again, it's pretty easy if you own $40 million in Halliburton shares, and then arrange for them to manage billions in no-bid Iraq and Katrina contracts.

  16. #116
    dp
    dp is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Puget Sound, Washington
    Posts
    3,204

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lazlo View Post
    Dennis, a stock option is very different than a stock you own outright. The vast majority of his net worth is Halliburton stock.
    Do you have a link to a site that shows proves his ownership of Halliburton stock during his time in office?

  17. #117
    falcoman is offline Plastic
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    eastern washington
    Posts
    43

    Default

    Interesting comments here. We need to remember it is the congress who make the laws and the president only signs them. just for clairity the Dems controled the congress and senate in 07 and 08 and 09 and 10 and still controls the senate. The bubble started breaking in 07.

    Sure a lot of what seems to be class envy here. So how does that help anything? Basicly may be better just to apply the comandments. Like the one thou shalh not covet.

    Another point. We are a republic and not a democracy as stated above. There is a difference.

    A very wise man once said: We have learned by sad experiance that it is the nature of almost all men that as soon as they get some authority as they suppose they imeadiatly begin to exercise un rightious dominion.

    I would also think that this applies to everyone posting here. Probally even me, If you were them you would likely see things different. Maybe even the way they see them.

    So the only thing we can do is dump all the entrenched players and start over fresh and then do the term limit thing and tort reform would also be good. maybe even make the positions no pay expenses only. Maybe we would get a little service out of them for a change.

    It is high time to sweep both houses and level the playing field with support for the Fair Tax.

    Steve

  18. #118
    lazlo's Avatar
    lazlo is offline Diamond
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    4,405

    Default

    Dick Cheney - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "Cheney resigned as CEO of Halliburton on July 25, 2000. As vice president, he argued that this step removed any conflict of interest. Cheney's net worth, estimated to be between $30 million and $100 million, is largely derived from his post at Halliburton"

  19. #119
    dp
    dp is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Puget Sound, Washington
    Posts
    3,204

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lazlo View Post
    Dick Cheney - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "Cheney resigned as CEO of Halliburton on July 25, 2000. As vice president, he argued that this step removed any conflict of interest. Cheney's net worth, estimated to be between $30 million and $100 million, is largely derived from his post at Halliburton"
    This tells us nothing. Did he, while VP, hold any Halliburton stock? If he did that would be a conflict of interest. If he held any Halliburton stock, how much? I've looked and I can't find it. He claims he sold off all vested stocks and retained but put into the trust his options.

    His separation package and deferred earnings payment mean nothing as that was all settled before he became VP. He had the deferred payroll funds insured so that Halliburton could go belly up and he still would have gotten paid. That no doubt to assuage the chatter that he had an interest in Halliburton's continued good health so he would get all of his deferred paychecks. I can find no evidence that he profited from Halliburton while VP.

    Edit: Not to forget - we're on this tangent because of your absurd and unsupportable claim that Halliburton made trillion$ from the Iraq war.

  20. #120
    John Welden's Avatar
    John Welden is offline Diamond
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kirkland, WA
    Posts
    5,802

    Default

    So Dennis defends Wall Street Bankers, Bush, Newt and now Cheney? LOL

    Excellent entertainment, thank you.

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •