10-09-2011, 10:34 AM
Originally Posted by thruthefence
In a May, 2000 technology profile of Goldman Sachs, Forbes reported that the financial servicestheir labor-intensive floor trading operations
firm has developed built an automated pricing system that can develop and offer bond prices in
300 milliseconds. "Secret algorithms guide 20,000 trades a day in the volatile equity derivatives
market. A new Web bond trading service now handles 70% of Goldman's Treasury trades,
updating prices 200 times per second and executing $100 million deals without a lick of human
intervention." (Weinberg, 2000)
As Doug Henwood wrote in Wall Street, referring to the various hedging tools like options,
swaps and futures, "it's hard to imagine a deep market in such alchemy in a computerless age."
Modern day speculation could not exist without computers, could not have grown to command
the huge amounts of money that it does. The volume of transactions handled by the markets,
e.g., could not be processed without computers.10 And the nature of the business is such that as
more technology is thrown into the battle, still more will need to be deployed. It's never enough.
Goldman Sachs' technology story is impressive. The $5 billion cited above in Forbes has bought
over 20,000 PCs and workstations, 80,000 gigabytes of storage, 18,000 miles of network cable
and 30,000 phone lines. The company has been making a big move into electronics-only trading
by investing in some two-dozen ventures. Goldman Sachs is not the only ones doing this — most
markets and exchanges are in the process of, or have developed, and electronic counterpart to
The Anti Christ indeed.
The above cut and past is from Jim Davis' article on Speculative Capital , The article is quite informative although at times difficult for me to follow.
However, humans created this monster..a Frankenstein run amok, we have the ability to pull the plug, all it takes is the political will.
10-09-2011, 11:28 AM
I tend to agree with you. However, a friend (whose background includes a PhD in Artificial Intelligence) has a different perspective. Fanya Montalvo on the Singularity:
Originally Posted by dhammer
Fanya's notion is that Kurzweil's "Singularity" has two components. One is the usual bit about computers becoming as smart as humans at some fairly near point. The other is human reliance on automated computer systems to such an extent that they pretty much take over. I personally don't see that as a general rule, but in the case of finance and trading it could be argued that we're already there.
10-09-2011, 12:29 PM
There is government interest iin limiting micro trading both
here and EU.
Today's NYT has an article about clamping down on the
process. New fee or tax for high frequency trading? The
concern is micro trading can swing markets without real
merit and has the ability to manipulate equity pricing by
high volume traders with potential for worse.
The EU may proceed since their governments seem to
generally have focus on sustainabilty but here debate will
be split by party and well supported by Wall St to continue
business as usual.
10-09-2011, 03:42 PM
[QUOTE=Tank;1666045]. Now I was born after the civil rights movement but in my lifetime I have never seen a protest change anything.
"I was born after the civil rights movement"..yes, we can tell.
Perhaps you skipped your history classes..or perhaps not..seeing how history is taught in schools..but it desn't take much searching, in the era of Google, to expand your horizons and further your education.
10-09-2011, 03:50 PM
With all of the handringing regarding multinational corporations on this forum, I have a question:
Originally Posted by Tank
What makes you think we can trust Google?
(or Bing, or Yahoo or M.S. or Apple)
10-09-2011, 03:58 PM
I read the article. Did you read the article on drone warfare? Apparently the US, although way ahead of other countries, is not be the only country investing in automated war machines.
Originally Posted by ColoradoBoy
I saw a video on Utube where some researcher invented a robotic insect..bout the size of a hummingbird. This "insect" was equipped with cameras and when coupled with face recognition software could identify faces in a crowd..add some explosives..things nightmares are made of.
I know this subject is OT but does anyone else sense the enormous waste of human engineering skill dedicated to killing other people. I think the young people involved in OWC see this..maybe not articulate it..but see it nonetheless.
10-09-2011, 04:21 PM
I am more Tea Party than OWS. Having said that, A for effort. I wish it was ODC, maybe they would have a chance for change there.
10-09-2011, 05:16 PM
Originally Posted by dhammer
Most of us, myself included, tend to look for information that reinforces our worldview. However, it is discussions such as we have here that force us to defend our positions and subject them to the light of day.
Hopefully, through this process, the "truth" is revealed. By "truth" I mean that we approach an accurate description of reality.
10-09-2011, 05:31 PM
10-09-2011, 05:42 PM
10-09-2011, 05:53 PM
Have you checked out Egypt recently?
Originally Posted by Tank
Or the impact of near riot conditions in town hall meetings on health insurance reform?
You might be surprised at what you can see if you look around.
10-09-2011, 05:54 PM
You mean the Koch bros?
Originally Posted by iwananew10K
10-09-2011, 06:04 PM
The tea party was financed and still is by the Koch bros.
Originally Posted by iwananew10K
who favor no government, no regulation and no taxes for
their daddies energy business they now run. Koch bros.
have paid for seminars to train tea baggers to organize &
promote their agenda as a local grass roots thing. Wake up.
Tea baggers-total freedom.
Do what you want.
Tea baggers saving America-?
Corporations in charge.
More like destruction for profits.
10-09-2011, 06:29 PM
10-09-2011, 06:52 PM
"have you checked out Egypt recently"
Originally Posted by Miguels244
I just finished watching a 60 Min segment on Egypt. The people are still in the streets.the army is in control and it is business as usual..for the moment.
The interview with that Egyptian singer was amazing. We in the US get all bent out of shape by the pepper spraying of some female protestors(stupid move on the NYPD's part)..this Egyptian singer was tortured and beat for hours and yet he still has the courage to protest...and Panetta meets and shakes hands with the generals.
10-09-2011, 07:44 PM
"I just hope they stick to the issues they started with."
Using koch money to get republicans elected?
10-09-2011, 07:51 PM
"I have never seen a protest change anything. "
Not old enough to have seen the Moratorium help end the vietnam war?
Yes btw I did happen to see the drone article in the NYTimes. Very interesting.
First off the quivering discussion of 'what happens when the rest of the combatant
countries start using RPVs?
(remote piloted vehicles)
We in the US are again leaders in a dubious technology. Namely what happens
when somebody tries to shoot Dick Cheney or Karl Rove from a drone? It's
been proven that it's totally legal to kill american citizens without a trial or
a verdict, no need to worry about the fourth or fifth amendment to the US
constitution. All you have to do is prove they're possibly an enemy of the
state and then it's cross-hairs to the ready.
At this point the US government is in the same business as Jarrod Loughner.
Don't like his looks? Zoom, bang. Done.
10-09-2011, 08:08 PM
I'm waiting for the left money to start flowing...
Originally Posted by smalltime
perhaps Soros will give them free vegan free trade soup.
They already blew the union coopt off pretty efficiently, that's a good thing.
10-09-2011, 08:37 PM
I think the Koch Brothers are far more malevolent than the others you've mentioned, on either side of the fence. The Koch Brothers aren't Republicans -- they're hard-core, kill-the-government libertarians. David Koch ran as the Vice Presidential Libertarian candidate against Regan in 1980 -- they thought Regan was way too liberal
Originally Posted by smalltime
When Fox started advertising the Tea Party Express in 2009 on "Fox and Friends", the Koch brothers saw a once in a lifetime opportunity: hordes of disenfranchised voters, still smarting from the 2008 financial collapse, and totally fed up with the shenanigans of the 2-party system.
So the Koch Brothers started funneling hundreds of millions into the Tea Party. But this was before the SCOTUS vote that legalized unlimited corporate funding, so they created an incredibly elaborate system of shell corporations, phony foundations, anonymous political groups, and quietly took control of the Tea Party.
They vehemently denied *any* funding of the Tea Party, until last February, when Jane Mayer published an investigative report in the New Yorker that broke down the money trail.
Some of the funding is downright stomach-turning. The Koch Brothers paid for Clarence Thomas and Antony Scalia to attend a 4-day all-expenses paid "event" at the exclusive Rancho Las Palmas resort in Palm Springs. Shortly before the SCOTUS vote on the Citizens United case
Between 2003 and 2007, Virginia Thomas, Justice Thomas’ wife, earned $686,589 from the Heritage Foundation -- a Koch Brothers construction.
Tea Party Funding Koch Brothers Emerge From Anonymity - Peter Fenn (usnews.com)
"For many years, they have been involved in politics but not terribly open or transparent about it. It is true that David Koch ran as vice president on the 1980 Libertarian ticket, to the right of Ronald Reagan. According to New York Times columnist Frank Rich, “his campaign called for the abolition not just of Social Security, federal regulatory agencies and welfare but also of the FBI, the CIA, and public schools.” Since the Libertarian party’s 1 percent showing in 1980, David Koch has very much been behind the scenes, until now.
Jane Mayer, of The New Yorker, in her 10,000 word piece last August, peeled the cover off the onion of the Koch brothers' empire. And she focused not only on their personal wealth and family, but on their political empire building.
It was not, and is not, easy to get the details on the extent of their tentacles. They funnel money through 501c3 tax-exempt foundations, and they give money to other foundations, lobbying organizations, and right wing think tanks. They have PACs; they support candidates. Only a small portion of what they control do they divulge.
But it has now come out how involved they have been in funding Tea Party groups, Americans for Prosperity, FreedomWorks, and Citizens for a Sound Economy.
We do know, from Mayer’s reporting, that the Koch brothers have personally given over $2 million to candidates over the last 12 years, their PAC has contributed $8 million to candidates, and they have spent $50 million on lobbying. The Charles Koch Foundation has given $48 million, and another foundation they control gave $28 million. David Koch’s foundation gave more than $120 million. According to Mayer, $196 million dollars in total was distributed in the last 10 years to conservative causes and institutions."
They're clearly not Republicans. Although they're a Jewish family, they're not religious, and could care less about abortion, or apparently the United States. They're old oil, and they want to be left alone to pursue those interests...
Bloomberg investigation alleges Koch subsidiaries paid bribes, sold to Iran
Bloomberg investigation alleges Koch subsidiaries paid bribes, sold to Iran | The Envoy - Yahoo! News
10-10-2011, 05:43 AM
I am confused as to why this argument always comes up, how is this different then unions using there money to get liberals elected?
Originally Posted by jim rozen