Thread: The rise and fall of a great American company - Burgmaster

The book is still available, all the way from $5.00 to $167 new. Amazon and ebay. Harvard Business School Press, 1990.

Tom

I think the main design flaw that doomed the burgmaster was having lots of spindles. Modern cnc has one spindle and a tool changer with tons of tools. That is much more efficient and cheaper than having 6 spindles. I wouldnt mind a small one for some of the parts I make, but in the end I would probably send it to a cnc shop anyway, after the novelty of doing it a few hundred times wore off.

Kpotter

There are a few CNC-s with multiple spindles, not unlike the Burgmaster.
Some have a Burgmaster "style" toolchanger, where there is only one spindle, but the carousel revolves around it much like the Burgmaster does.
And, while I have 4 CNC mills in the shop, I still very often do simple 2nd ops on the Bridgeport, namely chamfer the back side of a hole, chamfer/tap a hole or ream/chamfer a hole.
Very often there are different size holes, some needs a 1/4" chamfer tool, some a 5/8, some 90 deg, some 120 included.... No matter what, the Bridgeport seems much faster
than the CNC for these, and usually can be done simultaneously or for the simple purpose of letting the CNC do what it does best and let the simple stuff done .... simply.
With a Burgmaster style "drillpress" those tasks would be even faster as you can have most if not all of the required tools in it, ready with a simple index.

But you're correct, the multiple spindles don't lend themselves easily for milling, specially for heavy milling, and a simple drill-only process is rare at best.

I started my company in 1973 when I was 24. I watched as the whole U.S. machine tool industry killed itself off through shear arrogance and ignorance. All those arrogant idiots that ran those companies got what they deserved, it's a shame that they had to take down the industry and hurt all of their great employees and put America in third world machine manufacturing status. I think about what happened quite often and can see that part of the problem, especially the arrogance was a result of America being the only country that was left intact after WW2. For many years if you wanted anything like that you probably had to come here to buy it. Lead times on new machines were measured in many years and the machine tool builders could sell any piece of crap that they built without regard to what the customer wanted. Once I called the chief engineer at Davenport Machine tool (they make multi-spindle screw machines) to suggest that they put a low lube oil limit switch on their machine so that it wouldn't run out of oil and seize up the spindles if you forgot to fill the oil tank up. He said some what sarcastically "Over the years many of our good customers have made many suggestions on how to improve our machines, we haven't acted on any of them and we aren't likely to act on yours." I saw that attitude at every machine tool company that I have ever dealt with.

Jake

Originally Posted by S_W_Bausch

That book hasn't depreciated in price, my guess is it was a vanity press production, and the author has a garage full of them.

Yeah well, you tend to make alot of wrong guesses on PM....it was published by the Harvard Business School Press. Eight pages of bibliography and sources at the end containing nearly two hundred entries...very detailed researched book. There's even five pages of charts detailing the financial performance of Burgmaster from the beginning in 1954 to near the end in 1985.

Originally Posted by John Welden

So you admit you were misled by the right wing media? You read the quotes and can see how they were taken out of context? I'd think you'd be pretty upset about that?

Address my point on the Obama quotes. I don't care if you get a boner for the Koch story or not.

Weldon, you are the one who has been took in my the media, yes I have read the Koch stories that have been posted in the past, and I could debunk a good portion of them if I was at liberty to do so. I worked for the Koch's for 13 yrs., I have hauled Charles K. around out in the field in a pickup, I know them and I know their true story. You on the other hand know what you read on the liberal blogs.

Edit: forgot to address your Obama quotes, I actually was watching him when he made that statement, I didn't get an edited second hand version,he came of pretty arrogant to me, if he meant to say your interpretation of it , then that is what he should have said.

Originally Posted by J. Randall

Weldon, you are the one who has been took in my the media, yes I have read the Koch stories that have been posted in the past, and I could debunk a good portion of them if I was at liberty to do so. I worked for the Koch's for 13 yrs., I have hauled Charles K. around out in the field in a pickup, I know them and I know their true story. You on the other hand know what you read on the liberal blogs.

Edit: forgot to address your Obama quotes, I actually was watching him when he made that statement, I didn't get an edited second hand version,he came of pretty arrogant to me, if he meant to say your interpretation of it , then that is what he should have said.

Are you a machinist? How can you be retarded and a machinist? Jesus Christ.

You can always spot a lefty.....one personal attack after another......I was watching obama also..... And was insulted as well. I was busting my ass, working 18 hours a day getting my business started. First few years were hell. Rules, regulations, 4 different licenses, 1,000 dollar fine for not knowing I need my air compressor tank inspected. O shit my sign does not meet code.....well more money wasted. Workman's comp. audit.....My son, age 14 was working for me at the time. I did not get "permission" from school for him to work after school. Fine for that and "overtime pay" irregularities for my own son, 3850.00 + 167.00 back pay for my kid!
April 15 comes around again, all the money left in the bank won't cover the bill, no matter they say, I can just pay on time......+penalty and interest of course. O great, the septic tank needs work, get the guys with the back hoe in here, its got to be fixed.....you need a permit for that, along with that comes a g-ment inspector!
Inspector says new rules now days for septic systems, the old one is too close to the property lines. When we have the proper setback it is now to close to the well. The well is perfect, but is now 12 feet to close to the new septic location so I get to drill a new one! 15,000 later I can take a crap again. Some where along there I missed one of those tax payments the irs was "letting" me make on time so they seized my savings and checking account, no matter the outstanding checks! My shop was on a dirt road that the county never got around to plowing the snow off. So I did it myself, not the end of the world, Minnesota snow, the road was only 1 mile long. Looks like I can't plow it anymore unless I get special insurance 1 million dollar coverage. I could go on, I just don't know how I ever could have done it without all the "help" I got from the government.
I have a lot of work now and would hire 1 or 2 guys right now except for all the gov. BS and expense involved.

Originally Posted by John Welden

You know they took Obama's comment out of context right?

If Barack Obama has a Harvard law degree, he didn’t earn that. Somebody else made that happen.

Originally Posted by jimfnd

If Barack Obama has a Harvard law degree, he didn’t earn that. Somebody else made that happen.

He did lose his law license on his own though......

Originally Posted by jimfnd

If Barack Obama has a Harvard law degree, he didn’t earn that. Somebody else made that happen.

He didn't build Harvard.


Thanks to tax payers, we have roads and courts and schools and everything else. Conservatives are too selfish to see that all those things made it possible for them to own business in the first place.

Originally Posted by John Welden

He didn't build Harvard.


Thanks to tax payers, we have roads and courts and schools and everything else. Conservatives are too selfish to see that all those things made it possible for them to own business in the first place.

Makes you wonder how Sears, Monkey Wards, SS Kresgees(forgive spelling Kmart), Atlas press, etc..etc.. ever became profitable. I imagine all those horse drawn wagon roads the government made, The hand screwed printing presses the government invented, the treadle lathes the government designed built and gave to small businesses etc..etc..

These things and companies seemed to appear magically before the government saw a way to tax us for them, as does everything else. If left to grow on their own, they could become as H. Fords company did(During his life). Outsourced via the government they will inevitably end as Fords company(begging handouts).

Good luck with these arguments. No end to the B.S. and the little truth the media gives is hard to define without a .000 in the front.

Ben

I'm on the road and don't get to watch the news every day, but I didn't see anything about the massacre at the university in West Virginia. Maybe because of the 2 students that had concealed weapons and held the gunman at bay till the cops got there. He only got 2. Makes me wish the government would outlaw legal gun ownership so we all could be at the criminally insanes mercy. Obama, Hilary, and the UN Will bring that to be.

Tom

Sorry about ranting off topic on your thread. It is a shame that all those companies couldn't, or wouldn't keep up with the times. I guess hindsight is 20/20. I suppose with the EPA, IRS, DOT, and a million other 3 letter swear words, no-one can afford to restart them. SBL and many others from China, Taiwan, India. We haven't been able to compete with slave labor since the 1860's. As long as we allow countries to export their goods to us and not follow the rules we must, this won't change.

Ben

Originally Posted by Ries

The way I read it, the leveraged buyout was just the kicking of an already dead horse.
Burgmaster never made the transition from a 1950's rotary turret drill press to CNC. They tried, and failed, in the late 60's, and the Houidaille buyout pretty much clinched their death. That was a long long time before the KKR buyout.

Some truth to that, but many of the Burgmaster screwups with NC were the result of pressure from Houdaille to do something quickly and take shortcuts to satisfy short term investor needs. If Burgmaster had stayed independent with original management they might have made a better go of it. Admitedly their very first NC machine was a disaster, but the subsequent ones had potential except for the Houdaille inteferences.

Ironically, Burgmaster probably could have done pretty well up until about 1980 if they had just stuck with their manual turret drills and taken their time getting into CNC....but they were in such a hurry being afraid of missing the train that they wrecked the train.

Milacron