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Yankees Out Saving the World - or Arrogance???

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
Northwest Ohio
To start off - I don't follow the news at all. :Yawn:


I cought a wee bit of the oil spill on The Weather Channel a few times is all. Also - I heard one night that the miners were about to be hoisted up the mine shaft. I think the next morning on the radio they made mention that it was Yankee drill rig guys that bored the hole.

...but a day or two later I was talking to a business buddy of mine on the phone and he brought that up - and the fact that Yankees were drilling, but he said that it was kind of a werld wide effort.

Somewhere during that time (I think on TWC) it was siad that the Yankees were up in Europe or N Africa or ??? when this happened and they instantly hopped a plane and headed for Chille.

I had been thinking about posting this ??? for some time - but it came up aggin tonight at a National Honor Society sh-bang. Just how good the American public education system is - that we were there to take care of these miners. :Yawn:

:confused:


Now there are times when a global effort is mandated...

A) The Big One.
B) The War to end all wars
B1) D Day

And maybe simply Yankee help for:

D) Saving mariners from the Kursk. (Not that it was really gunna happen to begin with.)

But this miner thing really has me :confused:

Correct me if I'm wrong, and please help me to understand this...

They doo drill holes in South America on their own eh?

They only sunk ONE hole down there?

In the case of sinking only one hole - how much extra hands doo you need? Could you use? Would you even want just for moral support?

What specialties did the Yanks (and maybe others?) have to offer that these guys didn't have? I take it that it was NOT special equipment? I highly doubt that they shipped special drill rigs to Chille in a few days. ???


Now - armed with little to no knowledge of what actually went down here, my thoughts on this are that

A) the Yanks, armed in all their (our) arrogance - thinking that no-one can doo anything important without us, just had to git in there and show the world how good we are.

and/or

B) Follow the money. Who did these guys werk for? Who sent them? Uncle Sam? Or a private mining company that has been trying to git mining rights to that area for decades and is trying to use this "safety" issue as a wedge to git their foot in the dirt.... ???


So - are we really that good? We only THINK we're that good? Or the money?


--------------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
Ox - there were several holes sunks, a couple of which didn't work. It was a big triumph when a very small hole (4"?) made it through so that material and information could be passed to the miners.

The drilling task was kind of weird - not a normal sort of drilling for either oil or mining, from what I saw (which is filtered by the news.) [A mining expert with knowlege of the relevent facts would be good to hear from.]

So in the end, some much-more-sophisticated-than-normal gear and people were used, and likely required.

I think the dynamic you see (and wonder about) arises because people hear all the time about how the US is "in decline" and we "don't make anything" yada yada.

But of course, US entities still lead or even dominate many markets and technologies. The US mfg. sector, while employing far fewer people, is still, by itself, the size of the 3rd or 4th largest economy in the world.
(But ranking economies is weird, the UK is the size of Oregon...)

So there may be some "focused pride" afoot, because people don't realize how many things the US does very well at.

(Oh, and it appears that the issues with schools is consistency. The best students from the best US high schools are as good as anywhere. But lots of schools aren't so hot, with many of their students. It's about the shape of the distribution, much more than the height of the peak.)
 
I read a news article that explains how it came to be that an American company wound up drilling that shaft. It was a company in Pennsylvania that saw and read what the geologic conditions were that they were trying to penetrate. They felt they had the ideal knowledge and drill to handle that very thing. They not only had to offer their services, but actually had to convince those in charge that they were the right folks to do the job. The president of the compnay knew this was what they were good at, and both he and his "right-hand-man" stayed at the mine until they made it thru. The actual drill operator(s) were from Colorado and were working in another South American country. They were brought over to do that actual drill operation.

There was another Pennsylvania company that actually made the cutting bits that went on the cutting head; so, hats off to the Pennsylvania manufacturing and drilling companies that made this possible.

If I can find the article, I will post a link.

Here's one, but not the original that I had read:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/13/ap/business/main6955041.shtml

Read a little about the young "college dropout" here:
http://www.mademan.com/brandon-fisher-chilean-mine-hero
 
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That Pennsylvania company used one of their high tech drilling heads which cut through 2 or 3 times faster than what they already had.

They weren't suppose to be out until Christmas otherwise.

Tom
 
Now - armed with little to no knowledge of what actually went down here

That's probably where your post should have stopped.

The level of hysterical US bashing some people participate in makes me laugh. Yeah, it couldn't be that some guys just thought they had the best chance of getting the guys out... No, it must have been some evil plot... because that's all the big terrible US is good for, right? Then if we didn't do anything, people would say what a bunch of assholes we are for not doing anything. LOL Unbelievable.
 
No, it must have been some evil plot... because that's all the big terrible US is good for, right? Then if we didn't do anything, people would say what a bunch of assholes we are for not doing anything.

To be fair, the US doesn't have the best record regarding Chile. The last time we "helped out" down there, it was to overthrow a democratically elected government, to install a dictator and his death squads. September 11th was a dark day in history for a few decades before the WTC collapsed...

1973 Chilean coup d'état - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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B1) D Day

Nobody ever hears about Gold, Sword and Juno beaches, but then Hollywood makes the films.

D) Saving mariners from the Kursk.

Errr, from Wikipedia:-
On 12 August 2000, the Russian Oscar II class submarine Kursk sank in the Barents Sea after an explosion. The investigation showed that a leak of hydrogen peroxide in a torpedo led to explosion of its fuel, causing the submarine to hit the bottom which in turn triggered the detonation of further torpedo warheads about two minutes later. This second explosion was equivalent to about 2-3 tonnes of TNT,[1] large enough to register on seismographs across Northern Europe.[2][3]

Despite a rescue attempt by British and Norwegian teams, which was severely delayed due to the Russians refusing them access, all 118 sailors and officers aboard Kursk died. The next year, a Dutch team recovered the wreckage and all of the bodies, which were buried in Russia.[1]

Sorry, but you never got there.

On the other hand, does anyone give a shit? I live in the fond hope that when it hits the fan we'll all do our best for whoever is in trouble. It's generally only the Politicians - should that word be capitalised - who try to make capital out of it.

Alan
 
Ah, so :)
That wasn't clear, which is why I put the question in there.
Why? 'Cause I'm getting old and very cynical about the politicians who climb on every bandwagon that they think will make them look better. Their ability, over here as well, is awesome. We don't need us sensible people to join in.
Alan
 
FWIW Nova had a 'quick response' topical on the rescue operation on a few days ago
with some interesting computer graphics of the mine configuration, which evidently
spiralled down, rather than the 'typical' mine with vertical shaft and horizontals out
into the ore body. They left hanging the technology involved in steering to the
portion of the shaft where the miners were. Lots of videos in the mine, but a bit
repetitious there. The successful hole drillers used a studded bit to drill a ~6" pilot
hole then a much larger bit initially unpiloted but when the bit broke they had to
spend a week or so trying to remove the broken part and resumed with a piloted
bit with a cylindrical extension that stayed in the 6" hole and prevented the big
bit from wandering. Bit drilled using a 10-20 strikes/second vertical pounding to
pulverize the rock. Video can be streamed from the PBS website.
 
To be fair, the US doesn't have the best record regarding Chile. The last time we "helped out" down there, it was to overthrow a democratically elected government, to install a dictator and his death squads. September 11th was a dark day in history for a few decades before the WTC collapsed...
[/url]

How does something that happen 38 years ago have anything to do with some people going there to try and get some trapped guys out?

I don't understand why some people always want to focus on the negative.
 
How does something that happen 38 years ago have anything to do with some people going there to try and get some trapped guys out?

It has to do with trying to understand WHY people from other parts of the world often have a strong distrust of the USA and its motives, even when we are offering humanitarian aid in a crisis. Despite what FauxNews or Rush Limbaugh might tell you, people don't burn US flags, chant "Yankee Go Home", or crash planes into our cities simply because they "hate our freedom". They do it because they have seen first hand the results of US foreign policy in their own countries, and figure (rightly or wrongly) that they have no better way to make themselves heard.

I don't understand why some people always want to focus on the negative.

Something about learning from history or being condemned to repeat it?
 
Nobody ever hears about Gold, Sword and Juno beaches, but then Hollywood makes the films.

That's not true at all. :confused:

And my point in that remark was not that "WE" did it by ourselves. It was the fact that the US's help was needed. Most of my examples were where volume mattered most.




per the Kursk:

Sorry, but you never got there.

Near as I remember from 10 (?) yrs ago - that we were there, but held at bay. Maybe not nearly as quick as the Norwegeons (sp?) but I believe that we had a submersible near by as quickly as we could - and before anyone else had actually been able to doo anything. But the Reds didn't want us poking around their sub.

And for the record, I would say that the Reds were 100% correct in their action. Even if the Yanks could have saved all those men (:wrong:) it was still National Security to some degree that the Yanks not be allowed there. Even if that means those men died for the cause. The cold War aint over chumms. It's just in remission.


That's probably where your post should have stopped.

So your view here is that I shouldn't have asked a question that I didn't already know the answer to?

You should have followed the news.

Besides that, it's not arrogance if you can follow through.

Any chance that I may know something that you fellers don't? :confused:

Maybe not...:bowdown:

But then - that is why I asked the question eh?

Let's just make sure that y'all never ask a question on this site that I may know the answer to - or you will have egg all over your faces. :drool5:


Also - I may note that neither of you answered the question posed here either. :rolleyes5:


Turns out that it was a mix of option 1 and option 3.

1) Yes - we are that good!
3) Yes - there likely was some money in it. If nothing more than bragging rights for the team/company that was able to doo the best job. When a paying job comes up - they will Shirley be at the top of the list - and likely be able to pull down some good $ as well.



Why? 'Cause I'm getting old and very cynical about the politicians who climb on every bandwagon that they think will make them look better. Their ability, over here as well, is awesome. We don't need us sensible people to join in.
Alan

Exactly. I question most everything enymore.

...and more relivent - I hate hype!


The level of hysterical US bashing some people participate in makes me laugh. Yeah, it couldn't be that some guys just thought they had the best chance of getting the guys out... No, it must have been some evil plot... because that's all the big terrible US is good for, right? Then if we didn't do anything, people would say what a bunch of assholes we are for not doing anything. LOL Unbelievable.


As if freedom was a question of might
As if loyalty was black and white
You hear people say all the time--
"My country wrong or right"
I want to know what that's got to do
With what it takes to find out what's true




I am not anti-American by eny stretch there chumm. My defenition seems to mean a bit diff than some others tho. But FWIW - me and Mamma went to a CSN&Y concert a few yrs ago. It didn't dawn on me untill I saw the T-shirt selection that there was a war on.

We were not too happy :bawling:

A perfectly good concert ^%#! up by an anti-war rally! :angry:


80% of it was SUPER music tho! :D


If you want to only see the good, and believe that there is no corruption in politics, please - by all means - you run with that. You will sleep better at night and prolly live a longer and less stressfull life.



----------------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
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"Something about learning from history or being condemned to repeat it"

Just curious, which event(s) specifically are we ignoring/repeating?

The Berlin Airlift?

The Marshall Plan?

Or is it just "bad stuff"?

The recognition & support of Israel? Don't blame us, blame Lord Balfour. Without him, No Zionism, Unicorns would still be in the Forest.
Formation of the Arab States? Blame T.E. Lawrence.

Damn Brits. Never failing to learn from history.

As for the USA, Kipling tried to tell us;

Read "White Man's Burden".

Iraq & Afghanistan?

Read the war-criminal McNamara's confessional.

Shucks, we wouldn't have been in Indochina anyway, except for our ass-kissing of the French. What's up with that??
 
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How does something that happen 38 years ago have anything to do with some people going there to try and get some trapped guys out?


Most likely, not a damn thing.
If you were FROM Chile, however, you might be a little more skeptical. We all have suspicions of some group or another, founded or unfounded.

Jeff
 
Most likely, not a damn thing.
If you were FROM Chile, however, you might be a little more skeptical. We all have suspicions of some group or another, founded or unfounded.

Jeff


Oh - I think they ca$hed in just fine about 8 yrs later when they picked up the slack from the Russion Grain Embargo under Jimmy Carter.


--------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 








 
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