Many folks here complain about the current economic state of affairs and with the current unemployment rates, vanishing manufacturing sector, and huge trade deficits it is pretty hard to argue that some thing isn't wrong. Then along comes some one with some statistics that show US manufacturing is up and the sky is not falling - but it sure doesn't feel like it to the guys on the street. They are losing the jobs, homes, businesses, and every thing else they have worked for over the countless decades

This is just 1 more perspective.....

More and more folks seem to be understanding the "Robber / Baron" thing.
The question is?
In 2009, how do we stop them? Litterally...How?

In the day the peasants all stormed the castles....pitch forks torches...
drag em' out and etc. etc.

How does the 2009 surf..... bite the baron?
m1m

By letting them fail under the weight of their own mistakes and greed, and not bailing them out.

Next question, how do we keep the government robber barons from bailing them out?

Read this book and you will have a better understanding of how these evil bastards got us over the barrel.
http://www.amazon.com/They-Own-All-I.../dp/1439233616

I heard some thing about a bill before the House and Senate that would require an audit of the Fed. Currently they are not even audited

It's exactly the same over here in 'euroland' or 'eurozone' or whatever the hell we're supposed to call it.
The european government is all self elected and they can't be voted out AND for the 4th (maybe 5th) year running, no-one will sign off the accounts.
This year I believe they got another group of accountants in to sign it all off, as the previous years lot were'nt playing ball', but the new lot thinks it stinks as well.
I wonder what would happen if we never submitted out tax forms for 4 years running...
They are all somehow above the law. The untouchables.
It stinks.

Ron Paul has been behind that effort for years. Finally this year its going to be heard in the House, not sure how the senate companion bill is progressing:

HR 1207-Federal Reserve Transparency Act & S 604-The Federal Reserve Sunshine Act

Write your congress critter and get them to support this. The fed is not audited by, nor does it answer to the congress.

While I commend Ron Paul in this endevor I'm trying not to name names or political affiliation as to avoid this thread suffering the demise of the last thread I posted in this section of the forum.

With that being said .........

While an accounting is a great start I think the real crux of the problem and were a mere accounting does not go far enough is as to the means the money (credit) can be accessed by Main Stream America. Accessed by the same Small Businesses (such as machine shops) that politicians from both sides of the isle acredit as driving the economy, creating jobs, and innovating new products.

The ones that actually spur the economy, as opposed to the leaches that simply tack on a percentage or create NEW and IMPROVED Buzz Words

http://lcurve.org/LCurveVideo.htm

A few of the Wall St. thugs get what they deserve but not many. Hopefully the ones still misbehaving will take notice.

Unfortunately a lot of Wall St. behavior is perfectly legal and the worst of it still unregulated. Reading this made me feel a little better.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/19/bu...l?ref=business

Go to utube and watch pme5dogbu40

It makes you wonder for sure. The full version is found eaaqnacwalw&feature=fvw similar at p7jxjy7w_7a&feature=

It seems every expert obama brought in was from Wall St.

I guess all the little folks can do is hang on and hold your breath.

The history of mankind or get a bigger stick.

I wonder where else you can find a financial expert. I don't think even the "Sage of Omaha" could get us out of this mess.

MT2,

The FED is NOT a Government entity. It is wholly owned by their own stockholders, primarily by bankers and RICH people.

The only way they could be audited would be if an action was brought against them for fraud or criminal doings.

I, personally believe they have robbed the US of TRILLIONS of dollars. Make an actionable case for that.

Andrew Jackson ousted one of the first national banks. "You will kill the United States or I will kill you." He killed them. No President or Congress has fought any National Bank since, and created the "Monster from Jeckyl Island" in 1913. We are stuck with that, and I don't know if we could exist without it, today. They HAVE created every recession-Depression ever since, expanding and contracting credit.

It's much easier to make money playing with money than it is setting up a machine shop, for instance. The rich do it every day, in the billions.

They think we're idjits for getting our nails dirty, or getting our asses covered in grease keeping machines running so we can make what they need. 8 bucks an hour is ridiculous for a garbage collector till they strike and don't pick it up for 3 weeks in the Summer and they can't have lawn parties because of the stench.

Anybody ever see the movie "The Day Without A Mexican"? Hilarious.

Cheers,

George

Very good thread fellows...

and as for how can we fix it?...
you can't, (the "fix" is in) Learn how to use it to your advantage.

One example... most people think you have to own something before you SELL it.
Not at all... SHORTING is a great way to make $
You Short at the now price and then when it falls, you "buy to cover" at the lower price and now your what is called FLAT

If you do not like shorting (it can be dangerous) Another way is to look at the Exchange Traded Funds that are INVERSE to the market, They go up when the market falls...and some of them are double speed, meaning that if the mkt falls 1% the ETF goes up 2%

Learn about it, profit from it.

Good luck

GaryE,

Welcome back. I got the feeling you lost a lot of the money you were bragging about making before the shit hit the fan and went away.

I assume, with the market recovering, you have made enough back to not be a "poor person", and can now start telling us how to short sell and go ETF and trade FOREX and other esoterics.

Anyhow, welcome back. Come up with something simple mechanics can understand, to turn their hundreds into millions. Lots of guys here would like to quit machining, since they are going to take all their profits away to pay for insurance for bums.

Cheers,

George

Thanks George, actually I didnt go anywhere, I'd check in on the cincinnati troubles thread ocasionally and just sorta lost interest in the day to day chitchat...

There are as many ways to make money with markets as there are ways to cut metal.. maybe more... I'd sugest these 2 places to start..
1...Motley Fool
2...StockCharts.com
Google them and learn what they both teach...

http://stockcharts.com/

Here is another place to look at charts of stocks...
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/
Google that and then look at
SSO
and the SHORTING version SDS

I tried to post the links but it was not working.

Look at both charts and you can see they are mirror images of each other.

LEARN before you jump in... PAPER trade before you jump in...

Good luck

George, we'll have you in 'bellies" & 'beans' before you know it!

and sometimes Beans is easier than spoo's

Couple more things... Movies...
RENT, BUY, BEG, Borrow or steal THESE two movies
TRADING PLACES... Eddie Murphy, Dan Acroyd,
LIMIT UP...

1/2 of this stuff is in your head already...but learn from the movies...

Good luck

BBC NEWS | Business | NY Fed 'paid AIG banks too much'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8364003.stm
Page last updated at 10:26 GMT, Tuesday, 17 November 2009
NY Fed 'paid AIG banks too much'
Regulators involved in the rescue of AIG may have overpaid other banks when cutting a deal, a report says.

The New York Fed paid AIG's business partners face value for securities so they would cancel insurance-like contracts AIG had written.

But officials used a weak negotiating strategy, Special Inspector General Neil Barofsky's report said.

AIG was initially bailed out for $85bn (£50bn), but its total rescue package eventually amounted to over $180bn.

The report criticised both the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and the US Federal Reserve for failing to use their "considerable leverage" to force AIG's counterparties to accept less than the full amount for the assets.

As a result, 16 banks, including Goldman Sachs, Deutsche Bank, Societe Generale and Royal Bank of Scotland, were paid more than $62bn.

The initial bail-out "was done with almost no independent consideration of the terms of the transaction or the impact that those terms might have on the future of AIG", the report said.

It also criticised the New York Fed, chaired at the time by current Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, for insisting that all banks be treated equally in negotiations and for not treating US banks differently from foreign institutions.

'Extraordinary circumstances'

The New York Fed and Federal Reserve Board issued a joint letter to accompany the report.

"We believe that the Federal Reserve acted appropriately in conducting these negotiations and that our negotiating strategy, including the decision to treat all counterparties equally, was not flawed or unreasonably limited," the letter said.

The Treasury Department said that the report overlooked "the central lesson" learned from the AIG rescue.

"The lesson is that the federal government needs better tools to deal with the impending failure of a large institution in extraordinary circumstances like those facing us last fall," a Treasury spokeswoman said.

She also called for the approval of an Obama administration proposal for new powers to step in and shut such firms down.

And yet when people like NASA turn up asking for their 16 billion budget, everyone says "ohh thats a bit much, what can we chop from the space program....."

Boris

LF,

It is no surprise that we paid too many banks too much to "rescue" them. Had we allowed more of them to be shut, we might have fewer closing on a semi-daily basis. I think it is about 140 that have been closed within the last 6 months.

Bought up for pennies on the dollar, close over the weekend, open with a new placard over the sign, gain BILLIONS in assets.

The Fools mail me daily. Have for more than 5 years. Send money, and we'll tell you our secret. Gardners are no better than Jim Cramer as to their return. They cherry pick. I get mails from others who tell me of their back tested 7,000 % returns. Most ARE back tested, IF you had bought this 5 years before we got into this business, you would be a millionaire.

I've been idle for a few years. DID make a bit, back then, COULD have, but didn't in the last year. Chicken shit, I guess.

Cheers,

George