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We're Heading Into a Jobless Future, No Matter What the Government Does

oldster

Hot Rolled
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This is an article that I brought over from the Wall Street Journal.

As in all predictions, there is some truth, and some failures, but the overall idea (I think) is sound, and I am glad that I am 79 this month. I think that it is time to pull out my old copies of Issac Asimov. He was writing about this sort of thing back in the '50s.

Lee (the saw guy)




In an op-ed in The Wall Street Journal, former Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers revived a debate I'd had with futurist Ray Kurzweil in 2012 about the jobless future.

He echoed the words of Peter Diamandis, who says that we are moving from a history of scarcity to an era of abundance. Then he noted that the technologies that make such abundance possible are allowing production of far more output using far fewer people.

On all this, Summers is right. Within two decades, we will have almost unlimited energy, food, and clean water; advances in medicine will allow us to live longer and healthier lives; robots will drive our cars, manufacture our goods, and do our chores.

There won't be much work for human beings. Self-driving cars will be commercially available by the end of this decade and will eventually displace human drivers -- just as automobiles displaced the horse and buggy -- and will eliminate the jobs of taxi, bus, and truck drivers. Drones will take the jobs of postmen and delivery people.

The debates of the next decade will be about whether we should allow human beings to drive at all on public roads. The pesky humans crash into each other, suffer from road rage, rush headlong into traffic jams, and need to be monitored by traffic police. Yes, we won't need traffic cops either.

Robots are already replacing manufacturing workers. Industrial robots have advanced to the point at which they can do the same physical work as human beings. The operating cost of some robots is now less than the salary of an average Chinese worker. And, unlike human beings, robots don't complain, join labor unions, or get distracted. They readily work 24 hours a day and require minimal maintenance. Robots will also take the jobs of farmers, pharmacists, and grocery clerks.

Medical sensors in our smartphones, clothing, and bathrooms will soon be monitoring our health on a minute-to-minute basis. Combined with electronic medical records and genetic and lifestyle data, these will provide enough information for physicians to focus on preventing disease rather than on curing it.

If medications are needed, they can be prescribed based on a person's genome rather than a one-size-fits-all basis as they are today. The problem is that there is now so much information that humans cannot effectively analyze it. But artificial intelligence-based physicians such as IBM Watson can. The role of the doctor becomes to provide comfort and compassion -- not to diagnose disease or to prescribe medications. In other words, computers will be also taking over some of the jobs of our doctors, and we won't need as many human doctors as we have today.

It will be like the future that Autodesk CEO Carl Bass once described to me: "The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment."

Summers is wrong, however, in his belief that governments can do as they did in the industrial age: create "enough work for all who need work for income, purchasing power and dignity." They can barely keep up with the advances that are happening in technology, let alone develop economic policies for employment. Even the courts are struggling to understand the legal and ethical issues of advancing technologies.

Neither they nor our policy makers have come to grips with how to protect our data and personal information, control cable and Internet monopolies, regulate advances in genetics and medicine, and tax the sharing economy that companies such as Uber and AirBnb inhabit. How are policy makers going to grapple with entire industries' disruptions in periods that are shorter than election cycles? The industrial age lasted a century, and its consequent changes have happened over generations. Now we have startups in Silicon Valley shaking up bedrock industries such as cable and broadcasting, hotels, and transportation.

The writing is clearly on the wall about what lies ahead. Yet even the most brilliant economists -- and futurists -- don't know what to do about it.

In his debate with me, Kurzweil said: "Automation always eliminates more jobs than it creates if you only look at the circumstances narrowly surrounding the automation. That's what the Luddites saw in the early 19th century in the textile industry in England. The new jobs came from increased prosperity and new industries that were not seen." Kurzweil's key argument was that just as we could not predict that types of jobs that were created, we can't predict what is to come.

Kurzweil is right, but the problem is that no matter what the jobs of the future are, they will surely require greater skill and education -- robots can do all the grunt work. Manufacturers who want to bring production back already complain that they can't find enough skilled workers in the U.S. for their automated factories. Technology companies that write the software also complain about shortages of workers with the skills that they need. We won't be able to retrain the majority of the workforce fast enough to take the new jobs in emerging industries. During the industrial revolution, it was the younger generations who were trained -- not the older workers.

The only solution that I see is a shrinking work week. We may perhaps be working for 10 to 20 hours a week instead of the 40 for which we do today. And with the prices of necessities and of what we today consider luxury goods dropping exponentially, we may not need the entire population to be working. There is surely a possibility for social unrest because of this; but we could also create the utopian future we have long dreamed of, with a large part of humanity focused on creativity and enlightenment.

Regardless, at best we have another 10 to 15 years in which there is a role for humans. The number of available jobs will actually increase in the U.S. and Europe before it decreases. China is out of time because it has a manufacturing-based economy, and those jobs are already disappearing. Ironically, China is accelerating this demise by embracing robotics and 3D printing. As manufacturing comes back to the U.S., new factories need to be built, robots need to be programmed, and new infrastructure needs to be developed. To install new hardware and software on existing cars to make them self-driving, we will need many new auto mechanics. We need to manufacture the new medical sensors, install increasingly efficient solar panels, and write new automation software.

So the future is very bright for some countries in the short term, and in the long term is uncertain for all. The only certainty is that much change lies ahead that no one really knows how to prepare for.
 
"................ in the long term is uncertain for all. The only certainty is that much change lies ahead that no one really knows how to prepare for. "

I would add "that no one can accurately predict" to his statement.



Which in some ways negates the entire article.
 
The jobs will be in administration ,people will still need to have meetings ,even if it's just to discuss other meetings.
 
woo hoo. Then I can use all these fancy machines to make cool things for my hover board!
 
When I was growing up the "futurists" were talking about things like flying cars, 24 hour work weeks, colonizing other planets, etc.

The reality is cars only fly when they drive too fast on the crappy roads, 50 plus hour work weeks at 40 hours pay, and we haven't even gone back to the moon.

Some jobs will certainly be lost to automation but human beings are extremely versatile and fairly cheap compared to high end robots. If you have ever seen skilled workers doing final assembly on small consumer products you would be amazed how fast and well they do it.

Or we can let the assholes, I mean elitist "intellectuals", cull the population as Jacques Cousteau and others have suggested over the years.
 
One thought I have....if no one has a job....and everything is made by robots (relatively cheaply) than who is buying what the robots are making and with what $? Does this mean eventually the rest of us will be able to sit at home and watch Maury in the afternoons? Maybe, I will be able to get rid of this "flip phone" and get a "smart phone" given to me.......sounds good. (though I will believe it when I see it) :stirthepot:
Maybe the governments of the world will start promoting people to drink and smoke so that we lose a few once in a while......Hmmmm
I think I just described paradise lol
 
Mother Nature won't be fooled.
Too many humans are a Cancer on the planet, contaminating land, water, air.
MOM will inevitably bring balance back to the planet, and we pesky humans won't like the outcome.
 
Mother Nature won't be fooled.
Too many humans are a Cancer on the planet, contaminating land, water, air.
MOM will inevitably bring balance back to the planet, and we pesky humans won't like the outcome.

Nature is not a balancing act, its a cycle. Build, then purge, build again. The dinos were top dog for a longer period than humans have been around, but our days are numbered just like theirs were.
 
And thats only the technologies that the public know about.

In 1993, according to Ben Rich of Skunkworks fame...

"We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an Act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity...Anything you can imagine, we already know how to do."

I bet the 'deep black' secret technologies are mind blowing.
 
I bet the 'deep black' secret technologies are mind blowing.

Yeah, or after so many years of big earners, budget cuts and other crap and lack of a actual worthy adversary like a cold war they could actually be non existent!
 
And thats only the technologies that the public know about.

In 1993, according to Ben Rich of Skunkworks fame...

"We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an Act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity...Anything you can imagine, we already know how to do."

I bet the 'deep black' secret technologies are mind blowing.

yeah right. no doubt someone says he said it... National inquirer says that and more every day, but do you believe he actually said that? Flush the idea that there is mind blowing secret technology, two people can keep a secret if one them is dead.

If you want a sense of what might be, and its pretty exciting, sort of science meets imagination, read Kaku's Physics of the Future.
 
Mother Nature won't be fooled.
Too many humans are a Cancer on the planet, contaminating land, water, air.
MOM will inevitably bring balance back to the planet, and we pesky humans won't like the outcome.

Obviously you did not spend last winter here....if you had...you would not refer to the earth as MOM.....you would refer to the earth as that evil bitch trying to kill my ass......and thereby figuring going against any green initiatives is really just your personal way of telling that whore to kiss your ass. lol
 
The article sounds very much the same as predictions for robotics in the 70's. Back then analysts like Laura Conigliaro were predicting outlandish growth rates for robotics and 20 hour work weeks. The big question was "what will we do with all our leisure time?" All of us working 50++ hours for the past few decades somehow missed that one.

Just because it didn't happen in 1970 doesn't mean it won't happen in 2020, but there are some reasons not to book our places at the beach, being served robotic cocktails for in the coming decade or two.

A society that can afford millions of robots and billions of people not doing much is highly dependent on cheap energy, stable politics, strong and honest capital markets, enough water for everyone, economic surpluses, and so on. One could count dozens of credible threats to that scenario. Among them rising energy costs, catastrophic climate change, a plague or two run amuck, the partial collapse of agriculture for a half dozen reasons, the aspirations of dictators, religious war mongering, instability due to rising income inequality, your average asteroid hit, severe water shortages, nuclear winter, endemic terrorist actions, general political idiocy enshrined by gerrymandering, major cities taken out (your pick of quake, fire, hurricane . . . ) . . . the list goes on. The point being that there are enough threats to question the notion of the sort of robust economy that makes widespread robotics possible. One of the possible scenarios -- if we don't get/keep our act together -- is a sort of retreat back to a dark ages rather than forward to every increasing prosperity. In that case, people might be working very long hours just to lose ground gradually.

It seems to me that we'll need at least two key elements before this prophecy could endure: "Within two decades, we will have almost unlimited energy, food, and clean water; advances in medicine will allow us to live longer and healthier lives; robots will drive our cars, manufacture our goods, and do our chores."

First is to find and transition to other cheap energy sources. They'll be required to keep agriculture running, desalinate the water we need, built the robots etc. etc.

Second to embrace a sort of economic system that doesn't have the notion of limitless population, limitless physical growth, and quarterly compounded earnings at the core. There may be an infinity of things left for humans to discover or learn -- but there isn't an infinity of resources on this planet. An economy that embraces population at replacement levels while still providing the motivation and drive to keep discovering, inventing, and creating (working!) is going to look a bit different than the old models like socialism and capitalism.

One promising thing (to me) is that we surely have enough work to do to keep all of us doing something useful. There are potholes to be filled, kids to be better taught, trash to be picked up, healthier food to be grown, science to be discovered, art to be created, homes to be built, infrastructure to be repaired, cities to be revitalized, decent governments to be run, widgets to be invented, and on and on. There's work to be done.

Back in the 70's robotics was expected to far eclipse CAD CAM as an industry (some analysts covered both). At the height of the industry (automotive assembly robots, electronics apps, etc.) the robotics industry got to be as large as the now-defunct Church's Fried Chicken chain. In my mind one of the reasons the robotics industry fell short of expectations is that people just didn't get all that much gratification out of programming robots. Even bean counters didn't get interested when overseas labor was cheap. In fifty years, CAD CAM grew fairly large (people are still somewhat eager to learn it -- and it's still productive) but the computer game industry has far eclipsed it. That's driven more by an emotional rush of dopamine here, adrenaline there, than any real contribution to productivity.

What robotics still lack for many is an emotional appeal. We may let our cars do the driving; but we won't be bragging about it. I suspect the larger emotional appeal of robotics is a bit further off -- when we're more clearly augmenting human capabilities with "on board" information systems, embedded robotics, and the like? Kurzweil's notion of the "singularity" gets more attractive, when we see it as part of ourselves than either in service or opposition. In any case, by the looks of things around the Bay Area it seems that iPhones are already embedded in some folks' ears.
 








 
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