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    Default Apprenticeships

    Could be this man is on the right track. I wish our clowns in Washington could get their heads out of the mud and start a program we urgently need. Skilled labor shortage all around. Don't leave it up to private industry alone. They will manage to screw it up so any program will be benefiting only their company. The rest of the country - go to hell.
    Is anybody in Washington even thinking about something like it? They all worry about this little clown in North Korea.
    Russia and China are next door and don't seem to be worried. We are thousands of miles away.
    We had apprenticeship programs, we lost it and now we need it!
    But I guess it is more important to have all the football players standing up.
    Read this:
    The education of Emmanuel Macron – POLITICO

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    How can anyone want to promote professional education when man is being replaced by robots?
    The true problem of unemployment is wreckless reckoning. Computers, by the way, only help
    those who reckon, calculate, compare.

    I’m waiting for a generation that runs against the computer. Remember the Luddite movement?
    Big wigs managed to resolve most union problems by removing workers. I can only hope that a
    fresh generation will come to tell bosses, hey why don’t you do the shit yourself? It is shitty to
    comply with machines. But I fear that game is lost. Millions of people staring at cell phones all
    day long makes me sad. Women, young girls, men, every rolling stone is now used to perform
    on previously thought up things. Perfect slavery

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    Quote Originally Posted by juergenwt View Post
    I wish our clowns in Washington could get their heads out of the mud and start a program we urgently need.
    You've got your we's mixed up. There's the bankers, whose "we" does not include skilled labor and decent wages, then there's the middle class "we", who would like to see some of that remain in the US.

    Bankers own Washington. The rest of us are shit.

    Next question ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by juergenwt View Post
    Could be this man is on the right track. I wish our clowns in Washington could get their heads out of the mud and start a program we urgently need. Skilled labor shortage all around. Don't leave it up to private industry alone. They will manage to screw it up so any program will be benefiting only their company. The rest of the country - go to hell.
    Is anybody in Washington even thinking about something like it? They all worry about this little clown in North Korea.
    Russia and China are next door and don't seem to be worried. We are thousands of miles away.
    We had apprenticeship programs, we lost it and now we need it!
    But I guess it is more important to have all the football players standing up.
    Read this:
    The education of Emmanuel Macron – POLITICO
    Back in "the good old days" many skilled tradesmen emigrated from Europe to the USA. The standard of living and wages were higher. Those days are mostly history now.

    IMO the last thing you need is politicians and Washington getting involved. I think you'll find that in Europe the "work" re apprenticeships gets done by a cooperation between employer and trade unions. Over here employers also have trade unions. I don't believe this cooperation exists in the USA.

    European Alliance for Apprenticeships - Employment, Social Affairs & Inclusion - European Commission

    Quality and effective apprenticeships | European Commission

    I often wonder why individual US states don't seem to do more and use the degree of freedom they have. Not all states have the same conditions to make a "united" action possible or feasable.

    I can't imagine this happening.

    donkey.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechanola View Post
    How can anyone want to promote professional education when man is being replaced by robots?
    The true problem of unemployment is wreckless reckoning. Computers, by the way, only help
    those who reckon, calculate, compare.
    You always seem so bitter. Innovation is what separated man from beast. Fire, the wheel, you name it. Everything to make life easier keeps happening and I for one would hate to see evolution stopped. Tell a kid today that driving an automobile meant having a man walk in front with a flag to warn pedestrians was necessary.

    The more robots the better. 6 months ago I bought a robot lawn mower. Keeps my lawn much better than I ever could.

    Robotics is now being taught in several Danish schools and (surprisingly?) especially popular with female students.

    FANUC Denmark - Odense Robotics - YouTube

    Study Drone Technology at the University of Southern Denmark - YouTube

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    Big problem is..
    MACHINE OPERATOR - manufacturing - job employment
    Competing with China and India is tough and $10 per-hour is made at much cleaner and easier jobs..
    So getting the needed experience is at pea nut wages here is tough. Yes a machine operator is not a machinist but often that can be where one might start.

    Agree job training in schools would be good but educators mostly think factory jobs and even dirty jobs are below our dignity..and everybody needs college so everybody can be a doctor or engineer. Stupid because engineering follows manufacturing..

    Yes my per peeve "near free shipping" in in play here also.

    Yes one will say it is more than just that but we should have an even playing field IMHO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Big problem is..
    MACHINE OPERATOR - manufacturing - job employment
    Competing with China and India is tough and $10 per-hour is made at much cleaner and easier jobs..
    So getting the needed experience is at pea nut wages is tough.

    Yes my per peeve "near free shipping" in in play here also.
    Sigh. It's only a problem because it's made to seem a problem. Industrial European countries don't have this problem as they don't try and compete with Chinese and Indian wages. If the USA would focus more on quality and a higher automation as most European countries do then why not?

    I get the feeling you are being conned into thinking China and India is always the "goal" to be met. All the Chinese I know would rather buy western than Chinese.

    China - Trade - European Commission

    Foreign Trade - U.S. Trade with China

    India - Trade - European Commission

    India | United States Trade Representative

    There must be many Americans interested in only buying "cheap" to import so much.

    The same in the USA?
    http://cphpost.dk/news/chinese-touri...openhagen.html

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    Just by looking at this where would you prefer to work?

    Wages and labour costs - Statistics Explained

    List of European countries by average wage - Wikipedia

    Of coarse there's more to life than how much you get paid.

    Happiest countries - Top 15 happiest nations: Who's #1? - Pictures - CBS News

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    QT: [If the USA would focus more on quality and a higher automation as most European countries do then why not?]

    I really think we do that as well as anybody.. to think the USA not par with Europe is not logical..IMHO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    QT: [If the USA would focus more on quality and a higher automation as most European countries do then why not?]

    I really think we do that as well as anybody.. to think the USA not par with Europe is not logical..IMHO.
    Not disagreeing but how else do you explain the difference? Is the USA no longer making what the rest of the world wants? Something that says MADE IN THE USA is no longer enough. Once upon a time it was.

    We have some things in our house that were MADE IN THE USA but that isn't why we bought them.

    Just an example.
    Top 2 Best-Selling Cars In America - January 217 -

    United States Top 1 Imports

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    Going to Macy's or Sears you find much less made in Denmark, Germany and UK, and much more made in China and India.. I am just saying the playing field should be even..with no subsided factors...

    A subsided factor is like putting a duty on yourself or on your own manufacturing ability and jobs,IMHO..

    We are still high sales on pick-ups
    Top 11 Best-Selling Pickup Trucks In America – September 217 -

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Going to Macy's or Sears you find much less made in Denmark, Germany and UK, and much more made in China and India.. I am just saying the playing field should be even..with no subsided factors...

    A subsided factor is like putting a duty on yourself or on your own manufacturing ability and jobs,IMHO..

    We are still high sales on pick-ups
    Top 11 Best-Selling Pickup Trucks In America – September 217 -
    We've moved away from apprenticeships but you should ask yourself why the stores you mention import so much from China and India. I can't imagine anyone twisting their arm.

    I've seen how many drive pick-ups in the USA but they ae very rare in Europe. Vans though are very common but not bought or driven by families.

    See any pick-ups in these?
    Day 3 Traffic Jam Germany - YouTube

    A lesson in civilization from Germany: so the ambulance hurtling through traffic (VIRAL VIDEO) - YouTube

    I think pick-up popularity in the USA depends on where you live and which state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Going to Macy's or Sears you find much less made in Denmark, Germany and UK, and much more made in China and India.. I am just saying the playing field should be even..with no subsided factors...

    A subsided factor is like putting a duty on yourself or on your own manufacturing ability and jobs,IMHO..
    US tax laws all have about a 30* slant towards finance and retail. Manufacturing gets screwed, so free shipping or no free shipping, the smart money is not in manufacturing in the US. Europe appears to be different.

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    Point well made juergenwt
    Apprenticeship programs are always a good idea, but the root of our problem is that we have put price above quality in our decision making. Just look at all of those $19.99 priced products that are in our trash. The second problem that we have is that Washington doesn't have a clue of what manufacturing is about. They are more concerned for retail business than ours.
    otrlt

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    99% of problem is currency manipulation. tariffs are old school. cost of living many Chinese get equivalent to 50% of USA wages. actual wages might be $3./hr but cost of living is less. i gladly make $1/hr if cost of living was 0.50/day
    .
    you can make $100./hr but if you are taxed 50% and keep $50/hr then you buy on credit or bank loans and end up paying $600,000 for a $200,000 house and house is taxed at $8000/yr......... point is wages are lost by little taxes, loan interest, etc that adds up.
    .
    Chinese house is actually in some ways better than average American average house. they often send their child to college, they got cable tv and internet. many things they get at far cheaper prices.
    .
    for example not paying $8000/yr for house taxes amazing but thats actually a lot of money that can be used for other stuff like a childs education or saving for retirement. if you take a bus to work at $.50 a day rather than spend $10 to $20 a day to maintain a car (looking at all car expenses) just saying it adds up and in 100 ways in other countries they are not wasting 70% of their wages
    .
    basically average American is very bad at basic math and understanding compound interest. but in other countries they can do the math which they understand

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechanola View Post
    How can anyone want to promote professional education when man is being replaced by robots?
    The true problem of unemployment is wreckless reckoning. Computers, by the way, only help
    those who reckon, calculate, compare.

    I’m waiting for a generation that runs against the computer. Remember the Luddite movement?
    Big wigs managed to resolve most union problems by removing workers. I can only hope that a
    fresh generation will come to tell bosses, hey why don’t you do the shit yourself? It is shitty to
    comply with machines. But I fear that game is lost. Millions of people staring at cell phones all
    day long makes me sad. Women, young girls, men, every rolling stone is now used to perform
    on previously thought up things. Perfect slavery
    The Luddite revolution took place between 1811-1816, the US peak industrial employment was in the 50s and 60s a 140 years later. Peak employment in IT has not hit yet. If history is any guide here, the Luddites failed in turning progress back. Any backlash against automation will have the same fate. Remember the outcome of the industrial revolution was the specialization of metalwork into zillion directions, and caused the explosion of the industrial workforce. The explosion of automation will require a similar establishment of the support structure, either to automate the disposition of the output or the feeding of the industrial process. The skillset required for that will be vastly different. The real problem here is that scales of efficiencies are rapidly changing, we may have too many people to keep them fully employed, the other question is, whether or not full employment really necessary to assure global well-being of all humans.

    dee
    ;-D

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    99% of problem is currency manipulation. tariffs are old school. cost of living many Chinese get equivalent to 50% of USA wages. actual wages might be $3./hr but cost of living is less. i gladly make $1/hr if cost of living was 0.50/day
    .
    you can make $100./hr but if you are taxed 50% and keep $50/hr then you buy on credit or bank loans and end up paying $600,000 for a $200,000 house and house is taxed at $8000/yr......... point is wages are lost by little taxes, loan interest, etc that adds up.
    .
    Chinese house is actually in some ways better than average American average house. they often send their child to college, they got cable tv and internet. many things they get at far cheaper prices.
    .
    for example not paying $8000/yr for house taxes amazing but thats actually a lot of money that can be used for other stuff like a childs education or saving for retirement. if you take a bus to work at $.50 a day rather than spend $10 to $20 a day to maintain a car (looking at all car expenses) just saying it adds up and in 100 ways in other countries they are not wasting 70% of their wages
    .
    basically average American is very bad at basic math and understanding compound interest. but in other countries they can do the math which they understand
    It often gets overlooked that it isn't how much you get paid but what you can buy with it.

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    too many companies use types of tests to eliminate 90% of potential employees rather than use the test to identify training needs and just train the people if they are actually weak on some subjects
    .
    basically most companies that cannot find people is cause they often dont want to train others for months or years. sometimes it is as simple as recognizing the need to have newer employees stop and go ask nearby employee if they got a 5 minute question a few times a day. to often they want a new employee next to machine like they were part of machine like a machine part and replaceable when broke or theirs a problem rather that "repair" the problem
    .
    i got no sympathy for companies not recognizing masters of a trade help journeyman who both help apprentices at times. having 2 people at a machine at times is often best way to train
    .
    by the way many machine operators make $60,000 to $100,000 a year. i wouldnt be looking down on machine operators

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    It often gets overlooked that it isn't how much you get paid but what you can buy with it.
    .
    .
    cost of living often not recognized by people who rarely travel or leave their country. too often people who never left their country think they know how things are in other countries
    .
    China pictures i show to people who think Chinese live in straw houses and only grow rice
    .
    you have to travel the world a bit. often American pride bubble popped like a balloon with a needle when they see a 7 story tall ship being built
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ship_b.jpg   chinabuildings.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    It often gets overlooked that it isn't how much you get paid but what you can buy with it.
    .
    swapping currency not often done in USA but in other countries they buy and sell money from many countries everyday. some people actually get rich and all the do is buy and sell money from different countries.
    .
    money is paper and cost of living using paper is not fixed. its a math thing which often Americans are bad at math

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