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GM pays back "hand-out" ahead of time.

jdj

Diamond
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Location
detroit,mich.
It is all over the news. I just saw a GM commercial that mentioned it as well. Just had to put it out there for all those who said it was a "hand-out", not a loan, should have never been done and would NEVER be paid back.

Jeff
 
It is all over the news. I just saw a GM commercial that mentioned it as well. Just had to put it out there for all those who said it was a "hand-out", not a loan, should have never been done and would NEVER be paid back.

Jeff

Look a little closer before you pound your chest, hater.

A handful of lawmakers are accusing General Motors of misleading the public by continuing to claim as part of its advertising blitz that the auto giant has repaid its government loans "in full."
General Motors has been running ads on all the major networks claiming the company repaid its $6.7 billion U.S. government loan "with interest five years ahead of the original schedule." General Motors Company CEO Ed Whitacre can be seen in the ad walking through an auto plant as he touts the company's progress.
But lawmakers, and even the inspector general for the bailout fund GM borrowed from, point out that General Motors only repaid the bailout money by dipping into a separate pot of bailout money. They say the company did not actually use its own earnings to make the early payment and are questioning why executives are making such a big deal out of it.
"The hype is not the reality," Sen. Charles Grassley stated over the weekend. "It is far from clear how GM and the Obama administration could honestly say, much less trumpet in prime time television ads, that GM repaid its TARP (Troubled Asset Relief Program) loans in any meaningful way."
Grassley wrote a letter last week to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner expressing his concerns and asking for more information about why the company was allowed to use bailout money to repay bailout money.



The $6.7 billion is also just a fraction of the $52 billion General Motors received in government aid. Grassley said lawmakers are being told government losses on GM are expected to exceed $30 billion.
The TARP inspector general, Neil Barofsky, bluntly told the Senate Finance Committee during a hearing last week that the repayment "is just other TARP money" and lawmakers should not "exaggerate" the feat.
"It sounds like they're kind of like taking money out of one pocket and putting it in the other to do that," Sen. Tom Carper, D-Del., said at the hearing.
Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., expressed similar concerns Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press," saying it's "misleading" for the administration to claim the company has paid back its loans.
The GM ad could potentially land the company in trouble with the Federal Trade Commission over its truth-in-advertising laws, which prohibit ads that are "likely to mislead consumers."
The FTC would not comment on the specific GM ad.
General Motors admits that the company is repaying the loan with other government money, but says a year ago "nobody thought we'd be able to pay this back."
 
The loan wasn't paid back and never will be.* If you look at the financial structuring of the bailout, they paid back the loan with money put into an escrow account by the federal government (read taxpayers). Essentially, they paid off one credit card with another and neither card was theirs to begin with. There are two reasons they are claiming to have paid the loan back: 1) once cash for clunkers ended their sales tanked 2) they need to borrow $10 billion fom the taxpayers to retool their (our) factories to meet upcoming cafe standards and it would be political suicide to loan them any more money without this "we paid back the loan" cover.

*In order for GM to pay back the taxpayers, they will have to grow the company to be larger (and more profitable) than they were at their peak of about 8 years ago. This is highly unlikely, especially with washington calling the shots at GM.
 
This is "SOOO Last Week".

Big F'n deal, they paid back, what 8 billion, yet the government (US, me and you) still have about 50 billion in stock, stock that didn't exist before.

Must be nice, if I was GM,(small scale here, but accurate scale) the gov loans me $8,000 to pay off a credit card, then buys into my company $50,000, then they tell all my other owners to piss off (share holders) and then they tell all my investors that I owe, that they are only getting 9%. AND all my bills to the small guys are wiped clean and they're left holding their lunch.

So now, I don't owe anybody shit, except the gov, which is cool since I've got this $50,000 in the bank that the gov(taxpayers) gave me to become a part owner in my company, which is fine with me, since remember they were kind enough to tell everybody else to piss off and go broke.

So, I take 8k of that 50k and pay back the 8k, plus a bit of interest(42k still in the bank minus interest). This makes me a FUCKIN' GENIUS BUSINESS MAN. And to make things even better, once I pay back the 8k out of the free 50k, I get to sell more stock in my company, diluting the govs(taxpayers) shares even further, with blessings.

Smoke and mirrors and a bunch of bullshit.

Their commercials should say.

"You don't have to buy a Chevy, because your unborn grandchildren already did"
 
I saw that commercial as well. I know as little as possible about such issues, but when I saw that I knew there was a LOT more to this story... :rolleyes5:


---------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
Saw this as well, but didn't give it much thought.
When the TARP fund was being handed out I remember there was some finagling going on to get GMAC to qualify as a bank in order to get the money. I think this was where this came from. Also remember a second round of bailout money after the first of the year that was closer to 20 billion. Hope they haven't forgot about that too.
I could use some cash right about now............



I dunno, you should be able to believe a car salesman, right?;)
 
if they can make 6.7 billion proffit in less than 2 years in this economy, they have a lot to answer for in my opinion. sounds like bs, reads like bs. oh well.
 
Look a little closer before you pound your chest, hater.

How did I know?!?

I am the "hater"? That is hilarious!
I am not the one that would like to see more American manufacturers out of business!
You guys took the bait like a son of a bitch!

Jeff
 
Heres what I dont understand. Why is the debate that if GM didn't get the "loan" they would close down and be done, chapter 7. They would have done a chapter 9 bankruptcy reorganized and stayed open. They weren't going to close and be finished forever. I see this as just another straw man argument. What the "loan" did do was help keep the union fund, exactly how I don't know. I also dont know why a company is allowed to keep union pension money. I certainly know why they would want to...
 
The best explanation is right here, quoted from Wikipedia:

The Big Lie (German: Große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, for a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously."

Washington used to be bad, but it's looking more like Alice in Wonderland every day.

Dennis
 
So the banks are 'too big to fail' yet a company which directly and indirectly employs tens of thousands Americans ain't?
Small wonder we are in the shape we're in.
 
I don't want any manufacturer to go under. I just don't see the point in manufacturing more cars and trucks than the market will want to buy.

So any car manufacturer would need to either scale down their production if the demand for new cars and trucks isn't there or do their best to sell their cars more than the others but in the end only so many new cars and trucks will get sold, same with houses, it's unsustainble for every person to own 2 or more houses, maintain them, heat and cool them, secure them.

Everybody wants to "create jobs". In my eyes a "job" is something you create on your own, you look around and decide what needs to be done to make your life better, is it grow food? fix or repair something on your property? Learn something? Teach something to somebody else? It all starts by wanting something and finding a way to get it, somebody else wanting something and you know how to get it for them. Government doesn't creat jobs, banks don't create jobs.

If you sit on your ass and watch TV for 3+ hours a night then you aren't helping create any jobs.

So what other manufacturers do you guys want to go under?

Jeff
 
So what happens to the original shareholders of gm stock. Are they going to get shares in the new gm? Or are they (me included) out of luck?
 
How did I know?!?

You didn't. Once again you saw only what fit your opinions.

I am the "hater"? That is hilarious!

5th grade rebuttal. Yes, you openly hate anyone who doesn't agree with your political opinions, or who is what you deem to be' on the right', and project it onto them. It's self evident.

I am not the one that would like to see more American manufacturers out of business!

Irrelevant straw man argument, intended to change the subject.

You guys took the bait like a son of a bitch!

Another 5th grade rebuttal, a transparent attempt to deflect your failure to realize what happened into looking like an attempt to bait your intended objects of derision.


My last post in this thread, hate away.
 
How did I know?!?

I am the "hater"? That is hilarious!
I am not the one that would like to see more American manufacturers out of business!
You guys took the bait like a son of a bitch!

Jeff

I don't want to see GM go out of business.

I also don't want to see the government fooling all of the clueless out there into thinking they actually saved GM because GM "paid back" a 7 billion dollar "loan" with 7 billion dollars of free taxpayer funny money.

It sure would be nice to see the media latch onto this now exposed fraud, but they are too busy blaming Toyota for the death of some idiot who put an oversized rubber floormat in his car.
 
I wonder how much was discharged in bankruptcy? How much did their vendors eat of unsecured debt? The bailout & bankruptcy might have saved 1,000's of GM jobs, but I am sure an equal amount or more of jobs at their vendor's facilities were lost. The bailout did not accomplish as much as the uninformed masses thought it did.
 








 
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