Current market fluctuation and pricing given political climate. - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    Please post with out the name calling insults hyperbole and attacks.

    I have asked a couple of simple questions in this thread and also presented information that seems to refute the assertion the rich somehow are not paying tax. I'd like to know what information the individuals making those assertions have in support of them

    There is nothing to be angry about.
    The only person that seems angry is you. Who the hell made the assertion that the rich didn't pay taxes? I believe they don't pay as much as they should but that isn't quite the same thing.

    How about you get down to earth and out of your bubble?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    so you think the IRS is lying, because the info they present doesn't agree with your position? What information do you have the led to your position in the first place?
    Jeez I know what the problem is. You have a reading disability when understanding what is written. I didn't write that the IRS was lying but I won't rule out that they aren't always 100% truthful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    The only person that seems angry is you. Who the hell made the assertion that the rich didn't pay taxes? I believe they don't pay as much as they should but that isn't quite the same thing.
    ok, so you are do agree they pay their taxes? Because originally defended your claim

    while rarely using it to benefit others more than themselves
    by the fact that you pay more tax than what you get out

    as I pay my taxes, then yes, I believe I probably pay more into the "system" than I get out of it.
    It seems a logical implication in that the metric you were using for criticizing people as being greedy and not benefiting others was because (unlike you) you believed they weren't paying a lot in tax; what other reason could there be for you offering this as defence/support of your earlier remarks?

    So how have you come to know they are more greedy, and what do you do, as a global 1%'re that benefits other such that you have the virtue to criticize?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndlessWaltz View Post
    FIRST OFF: This is not a political thread. This is not pros and cons of the current president of USA.
    Thought this was appropriate.

    fucked-up-1.jpg

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  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Jeez I know what the problem is. You have a reading disability when understanding what is written. I didn't write that the IRS was lying .
    you wrote

    . Your reasoning seems to be "If the IRS says so then it must be right".

    Well of course it is. No government agency would lie, distort the truth or even manipulate "facts"
    I assume this was said with lots of sarcasm meaning you believe the opposite.

    They are straight forward numbers put out by IRS. Do you believe they are true or not?

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    I dont see how you can possibly predict what upcoming market fluctuation will be.
    First, the best economists had no idea that the huge recession of 2008 was coming. It just snuck up on em.
    Second, there is always the possibility of a volcano eruption, an earthquake, a tsunami- which can change the global economy, overnight, completely disregarding the "political climate".
    Of course, there is always the possibility of war- which also can make the best thought out predictions crumble fast.

    But really- we always have wildly varying theories, contradicting each other, and, often, they are all wrong.
    Who could have predicted, for example, that today's release of new jobs for March would be almost down to 1/3 of February?
    We all thought we were riding a Trump Bump...

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    First, the best economists had no idea that the huge recession of 2008 was coming. It just snuck up on em.
    .
    I read an analysis once, someone had a done a big research project on what causes recessions. The only meaningful conclusion to come out of it was that each time the recession was caused by something unexpected, something no one foresaw. It almost seems a comically stupid stated like that, duh(!), but I've come to think of it as good reminder that you just can't see around the corner and when you forget that it seems is when the carpet gets yanked

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    "Wealth Inequality in America..."

    Yeah, whatever. Didn't take long for this thread to get political, whatever the intent of the OP. But, since he asked, here's my experience:

    The practical aspect of an international market for a niche-product manufacturer is pretty simple--if your products are priced in US dollars they cost your European customer more when the euro is down and less when the euro is up.

    If the EU market for your products is highly competitive, they might be more attractive if effectively priced lower by virtue of a low dollar. If your products have little or no competition, and sales volume is not an issue, you make more money with a high dollar.

    The above is simplistic and as I said is my own experience with a family of "niche" products. Obviously there would be more volatility with commodity products like rubber duckies or liquor or mangoes.

    Niche-product manufacturing also has very little to do with who happens to be president, premier, chancellor, or prime minister and less than nothing to do with the percentage of the world's wealth controlled by the Bilderbergs or hedge-fund managers or whatever the fuck has Bernie's minions riled up this week. The single largest outside influence on international product salability is excessive import duties imposed by protectionist governments (a good example is Argentina, but they've never had any money anyway so it doesn't matter). If the US were to impose excessive duties on stuff I buy from Europe, it would obviously raise my cost; at present this would be partly mitigated by the dollar-euro exchange rate...but I'd still buy it, and would simply pass along the cost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    Please post with out the name calling insults hyperbole and attacks.

    I have asked a couple of simple questions in this thread and also presented information that seems to refute the assertion the rich somehow are not paying tax. I'd like to know what information the individuals making those assertions have in support of them

    There is nothing to be angry about.
    For once, just one freaking time, closely examine what you have said and how you react to what others post.

    You assert that the rich pay their taxes. Yes, after a fashion they do. BUT, they do so after an army of accountants and tax lawyers have loaded-up their tax returns with oversubtle and not infrequently specious deductions. Moreover, millionaires influence the outcome of elections and buy ever more power in order to mold tax policy (consider Trump tax cuts) in their favor. Of course, wealthy people don't report significant earned income, instead obtaining most of their income from dividends and capital gains which are taxed at a lower rate.

    Bottom line? The rich employ very aggressive tax avoidance strategies and pay tax at a rate that is quite often lower than wage and salary earners. Did you simply ignore my illustration that demonstrated that my aged mother, having a gross income of $26,000 annually paid federal income tax at about the same rate as Mitt Romney, a millionaire? Remember when good 'ol Mitt dismissed the working-poor as freeloaders who paid no taxes? He was talking about 47% of America! My mother was a part of that 47% and she paid as much in tax as he did, despite her poverty. And yes, despite her poverty, she and millions like her, would have paid even higher taxes to ensure that everyone in this country could enjoy a range of social welfare including universal healthcare.

    Who sounds more like the freeloader in this story? Be honest McGyver, this was a guy worth 250 Million dollars! Did he fairly and honestly pay his taxes like all those millions of wage earners whose income was taxed at a higher rate? Did they enjoy all manner of, shall we say, "creative" deductions like millionaires and billionaires? I think not. Do guys like Donald Trump pay their fair share of taxes or do they rely on tax escapes? Be honest! You know they do not.

    Why not admit, for once in your life, that you are wrong. The wealthy pay taxes, yes, but not their fair share and not honestly.

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK

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    You assert that the rich pay their taxes. Yes, after a fashion they do
    Yes that is what I've asserted in this thread as supported by facts and you seem in agreement. Do you dispute the IRS numbers?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSquier View Post
    Why not admit, for once in your life, that you are wrong. The wealthy pay taxes, yes, but not their fair share and not honestly.
    What am I wrong about? I have not commented on fairness or judgement or what they should pay, beyond 1) agreeing with Gordon that they should pay more tax than people with lower incomes and 2) like Gordon they pay more than they take out.

    As far as judging goes? Have at it, its not a conversation that interests me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    Yes that is what I've asserted in this thread as supported by facts and you seem in agreement. Do you dispute the IRS numbers?



    What am I wrong about? I have not commented on fairness or judgement or what they should pay, beyond 1) agreeing with Gordon that they should pay more tax than people with lower incomes and 2) like Gordon they pay more than they take out.

    As far as judging goes? Have at it, its not a conversation that interests me.
    I wasn't aware I had spoken of the moral dimension attending this discussion, but there certainly is one. I have no idea where or from what your sense of right or wrong derives, nor do I care. I can only hope that you can distinguish one from the other. If you can, you would do well to consider the fact that it is wrong for the wealthy to withold, from their surplus of wealth, tax monies needed to provide for the health and welfare of their less fortunate neighbors. It's that simple and that's exactly what goes on in this country. Of course, you don't live here, so you might not be very well informed.

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSquier View Post
    I wasn't aware I had spoken of the moral dimension attending this discussion
    I didn't say morals, I said judging. When you move to including phrases like fair, honest, they haven't paid enough etc into your statements you are judging. I haven't agreed or disagreed with your judgements, and you are free go about making them, its just a conversation I'm not interested in. Why? because its no longer about trade or economics or finance and it ends up just being contradiction instead of discussion, around who's belief system or point of view is right. Not interested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    you wrote

    I assume this was said with lots of sarcasm meaning you believe the opposite.

    They are straight forward numbers put out by IRS. Do you believe they are true or not?
    It was written with sarcasm. As to "lots of" then that's your opinion.

    They could be true but then again they might not be 100% true. Truth is rarely an absolute. Do you believe they are 100% true? Bet you answer that question with a question

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    It was written with sarcasm. As to "lots of" then that's your opinion.

    They could be true but then again they might not be 100% true. Truth is rarely an absolute. Do you believe they are 100% true? Bet you answer that question with a question
    I'll drop this as you don't seem prepared or willing to answer. Noteworthy however that you indicted a group and made accusations and refused to give any credible information or reasoning as its truth or rational.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    I'll drop this as you don't seem prepared or willing to answer. Noteworthy however that you indicted a group and made accusations and refused to give any credible information or reasoning as its truth or rational.
    I thought I did answer but as I thought, you ask questions but avoid answering them. Bet you are the center of attention at parties

    Yeps, that was sarcasm

    "you indicted a group and made accusations".
    Jeez, All I thought I did was express an opinion. When do I appear before the grand jury?

  17. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I thought I did answer but as I thought, you ask questions but avoid answering them. Bet you are the center of attention at parties

    Yeps, that was sarcasm

    "you indicted a group and made accusations".
    Jeez, All I thought I did was express an opinion. When do I appear before the grand jury?
    So if someone said all Danes are donkey fuckers with no information to support it that's just ok because its just an opinion? I think not. You pre-judged or prejudicing all in a group; generalizations are not light and inconsequential just because they are an opinion. On the contrary, to make negative generalization of a group I think you'd have a higher standard of information to support it other than just making it up, ie just an opinion. That's if its ever ok, as no one gets to meet and know and have the data on everyone. I doesn't matter what the group is, generalization not backed up with facts is something imo we'd all do better to avoid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    So if someone said all Danes are donkey fuckers with no information to support it that's just ok because its just an opinion?
    And you mother fucker advocate politeness and civility?

    I'll now give you an honest opinion of what I think of you as I've been polite up until now.

    You are a pompous POS and your opinion is worthless.

    Go sit on your porch and play your banjo.

    Dueling Banjos (HD) - YouTube

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  20. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    And you mother fucker advocate politeness and civility?

    I'll now give you an honest opinion of what I think of you as I've been polite up until now.

    You are a pompous POS and your opinion is worthless.
    Please refrain from insults, name calling, personal attacks etc.

    Relax. I didn't claim it, its a what if scenario. Look at your reaction....

    I think the point has been made. After being the recipient, how do feel about making negative generalizations now? Its not ok just because it was an opinion is it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    Please refrain from insults, name calling, personal attacks etc.

    Relax. I didn't claim it, its a what if scenario. Look at your reaction....

    I think the point has been made. After being the recipient, how do feel about making negative generalizations now? Its not ok just because it was an opinion is it?
    You know, I've had your "please refrain from insults" bullshit right out my ass. You cry foul then use words like "donkey fucker"? You are without a doubt the most stupendous cocksucker I have ever encountered. Your ploy of posing a pile of chickenshit questions while never responding to questions put to you has worn a little fucking thin as well. Furthermore, I've called you out repeatedly about your academic credentials since you so vociferously criticise mine. I know why you are mum on the subject dickweed. It's because you attended some half-assed junior college where you majored in Bowling, if you have any higher education at all.

    Go tune your banjo Gomer!

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK

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  23. #40
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    you know Mcgyver is just going to have to be put in the same bin with
    Gordon, John and Bill

    I'm really liking the idea of locking the whole lot in a room with clubs,
    winner takes all


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