Ford to move small car production to Mexico

Ford shifting all U.S. small-car production to Mexico

I live not far from the Ford plant that makes pickups. I hope they don't decide to move THAT plant down there.

What say you?

Here's something that makes me angry, I would love to "buy American". But at what point is a car an American car. I know there have been countless threads on this and countless comments, but if an "American" car company produces 70% or more of the vehicle in a foreign country, and a "Japanese" or other car maker produces more than 70% of the vehicle in this country, which is the domestic and which is the foreign?

I have two Ford sedans and a Ford pickup. I'll probably buy another Ford but it sure gives me pause when I read these articles about moving production south of the border.

Apparently this is nothing new. My 2000 Ford Escort sedan was assembled in Mexico.

If you want to "buy American", buy a plane (or a Tesla!). Why on earth would America be trying to make conventional cars nowadays? cars are low-tech consumer trash and it only makes sense to make shit like that over the border/overseas to keep the pricing practical. If you want a car to love, buy a classic.

Don't know what to make of this.
Despite this month old news they are hiring workers in the US at a pace not seen in decades.
Same true of the others. For the first time in quite a while you are seeing many "kids" on the plant floors.
Something is changing.

Manufacturing is up. I've seen a lot of reshoring for over 1 year.

apoc_101 said:

If you want to "buy American", buy a plane (or a Tesla!). Why on earth would America be trying to make conventional cars nowadays? cars are low-tech consumer trash and it only makes sense to make shit like that over the border/overseas to keep the pricing practical. If you want a car to love, buy a classic.

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...............wut?

JNieman said:

...............wut?

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I can recommend you some fine planes built domestically, if that's where you were confused


in all seriously though, Ford makes a lot of good stuff. big deal if they want to make most of it in state of the art facilities in Mexico. they're (north) American too! Hell, a third of America used to be Mexico. isn't it just fair to give a little America back?

apoc_101 said:

I can recommend you some fine planes built domestically, if that's where you were confused


in all seriously though, Ford makes a lot of good stuff. big deal if they want to make most of it in state of the art facilities in Mexico. they're (north) American too! Hell, a third of America used to be Mexico. isn't it just fair to give a little America back?

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The permafrost has apparently taken it's toll here^^^^^^^^^^^

CarbideBob said:

Don't know what to make of this.
Despite this month old news they are hiring workers in the US at a pace not seen in decades.
Same true of the others. For the first time in quite a while you are seeing many "kids" on the plant floors.
Something is changing.

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I see several things that are clouding what the "real" story is.

Quite often, the off shoring stories are presented at times when certain labor negotiations are going on and used as a bargaining chip, especially involving particular plants and projects. There seems to be the press story and then there is always the real story that is some derivation of the press story.

I also do not believe that Mexico is as low cost of a producer as what is presented, they do have their infrastructure issues. The cost of labor is lower but I'm not sure if the actual fully burdened cost is that much lower than the US costs when everything is all rolled up.

The Mexican standard of living is improving so that there is more disposable income to buy new cars with. The younger Mexicans are also willing to take on debt to buy new things such as cars and houses. This is a paradigm shift for them. This means that there is increasing demand for new cars in Mexico and the new small cars fill this market niche.

The automobile manufacturers are adopting a more regionalized manufacturing model. JIT works best when all of the parts do not have to travel a great distance. Eliminating delivery risks which ultimately create final assembly problems is becoming of significant importance.

It is over 8 years since the great downturn. A majority of the line workers that came back once the turn around started had high seniority and are to the point now that they would rather retire than work. This is opening up slots for younger people. The majority of the lower seniority workers that were not called back yet have moved on, further opening up new hire opportunities.

The new automation technology is probably not as labor saving as initially perceived. It does not take much labor on the manufacturing side but the support labor needed is probably greater than anticipated. Again more new opportunities for young highly skilled workers.

The automotive manufacturers have now gotten their sales numbers to a level that they can safely add some bodies without fearing it crippling their bottom line.

Ford has been doing business in Mexico for what, 90 years?
seriously, look it up.

Corvette and F150 have the highest US content IIRC.

Perhaps they are moving the low margin, low profit vehicles to make room for building more of the big money ones here in the US.
Are they closing US plants or cutting shifts here as a result of this change?

For sure you build a car, engine, transmission or driveshaft with a lot less hours of labor input than anytime in history but this trend has been happening for the last 50 years.
If the laws and the market would accept it I wonder what you could build and sell a 1969 428 mustang for now in volumes.
A crude car by today's standards but back then labor was a big input. Now it would be 1/10 of what it was and the quality 10X higher.
I have lived, ate, slept, and done things not to be mentioned in the auto plants since 1973.
Once great, then not so good, now coming back but it's a way different world now.

Building in Mexico has it's own set of unique problems that offset some of the wage differences as direct labor becomes less and less of the total cost so we shall see if this is a good move or not.
Just maybe this is more about opening up space and capacity in the US plants and tossing the "piddly shit" no money stuff outside.
As a job shop think those $35/hr jobs that you really don't want but hang onto anyway because they keep your brand and lead to better work.

I do not like it. wish they would build more plants here, but it makes sense and if you where in the jobs up top would you do the same?

depending on how you count, between 12 and 16 million cars were made in the USA last year- more than most of the years in history.
There are probably about 8 years, ever, when we made more cars.
So the auto industry is hardly dying.

And the car you can buy that is most "american" with the highest percentage of made in USA content is a toyota Camry.

CarbideBob said:

Don't know what to make of this.
Despite this month old news they are hiring workers in the US at a pace not seen in decades.
Same true of the others. For the first time in quite a while you are seeing many "kids" on the plant floors.
Something is changing.

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Yeah, what is changing is that Japanese and Koreans are becoming so wealthy and expensive-to-hire that Americans are getting more cost competitive. Part of the problem is that Japan and Korea are quasi-socialist states so they have certain labor costs that do not exist in the US. Add that to the cost of import and young Americans start to look good, despite their laziness and tendency to talk to their friends on their phones constantly.

Right now Mexico is the only place you can find cheap workers that are competent enough to make cars, but it is still challenging because you really have to dumb it down for them. Luckily, robotics are lowering the required skill level for car assembly so siting plants in Mexico is becoming more and more feasible, assuming you can find a stable area that is not controlled by drug warlords.

Ries said:

...
And the car you can buy that is most "american" with the highest percentage of made in USA content is a toyota Camry.

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That also depends on how you count. I guess suppliers and engineering of the entire process do not matter.
Direct labor is now a tiny bit of a car price.

CarbideBob said:

That also depends on how you count. I guess suppliers of the entire process do not matter.

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IMHO, suppliers are the primary "count" of where a car is made. Heavy manufacturing is where it's at. WTF care who slapped all those awesome components together?

rant on/
I'd rather the final assembly part NOT be a UAW worker. F that union...$160k for a pipe fitter. seriously.

Joe Miranda said:

Here's something that makes me angry, I would love to "buy American". But at what point is a car an American car. I know there have been countless threads on this and countless comments, but if an "American" car company produces 70% or more of the vehicle in a foreign country, and a "Japanese" or other car maker produces more than 70% of the vehicle in this country, which is the domestic and which is the foreign?

I have two Ford sedans and a Ford pickup. I'll probably buy another Ford but it sure gives me pause when I read these articles about moving production south of the border.

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The Ford I had (Ford Mondeo) was made in Belgium.

mkd said:

..
rant on/
I'd rather the final assembly part NOT be a UAW worker. F that union...$160k for a pipe fitter. seriously.

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I know hundreds of UAW skilled trade guys and some of them pipefitters. Where does this $160k come from?
Even on working doubles and weekends that seems high. Do actually you know this person and seen the W-2?
And BTW pipefitters don't build cars they are part of the support staff and be aware that my grandfathers were sit-downers so "F that union" is a bit of a slap in my face.
I'm management, seen plenty union bad, been written up more than a few times, but I get their side of the table.
How many decades do you have in a auto plants here in the US?
Type all you want but don't trash those you know nothing about.

Gordon B. Clarke said:

The Ford I had (Ford Mondeo) was made in Belgium.

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Ford Mondeo.. looks like a nice car.
Ford Mondeo Review | Auto Express
the best engine of the bunch in terms of efficiency is the 1.5 TDCi Duratorq, which boasts an official fuel economy figure of 78.5mpg


QT:[F that union...$160k for a pipe fitter.] I don't think so. Even at the old rate of around $35 per hour a straight time year would be perhaps $70K. Working 7 days all year perhaps $135K IMHO.. But might have to work through vacations and holidays to make that.

CarbideBob said:

I know hundreds of UAW skilled trade guys and some of them pipefitters. Where does this $160k come from?
Even on working doubles and weekends that seems high. Do actually you know this person and seen the W-2?
And BTW pipefitters don't build cars they are part of the support staff and be aware that my grandfathers were sit-downers so "F that union" is a bit of a slap in my face.
I'm management, seen plenty union bad, been written up more than a few times, but I get their side of the table.
How many decades do you have in a auto plants here in the US?
Type all you want but don't trash those you know nothing about.

Click to expand...

With all due respect to the individual workers that "make it happen"...F' that union. Their primary purpose is to take great blue collar jobs and send them out of the country, from noncompetitive wages and benefits and generally being the corrupt bully thugs they are. Everyone's heard the stories of working in a union shop, and all the games. I don't know about you, but i'd rather see a not-so-great blue collar job then see no jobs here.
Don't have to be in the UAW to see all the plant closures over the last 40 years. I blame the union. no need to take it personally.

I'm mad at the damage to local economies and the ripple effect of these closures. You could just as well blame politicians that setup the system. But hey, Perot told us there was going to be a giant sucking sound.