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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5 axis Fidia guy View Post
    As a Wisconsinite I am somewhat glad this deal came thru, however, between Amazon, Uline, and every other company with help wanted signs on the door, they are going to have a very difficult to find the thousands of workers to pass the piss test.
    Despite some people's penchant for trying to make everything under the sun political and personal, this is exactly what some of us were discussing. The existence of the issue itself, as well as how to remedy it. ( Is it even possible at this point? )

    Ironically, in that short time, we now find ourselves dealing with this, too. We are so busy that I have started looking at the possibility of hiring someone ourselves. And let me tell you, it's not so damn easy. I am considering looking for a youngster that we can train up, or a retired person that wants to be active and make money without dealing with the financial repercussions to their Social Security. The latter means less hours here, and the former means more of my time spent not working on customer parts. Paying the wage is actually the easiest part of the puzzle. It's finding someone that fits and is worthwhile that is the biggest challenge.

    That was a long way to say that I think that Foxconn will be finding themselves facing the very same issues that existing employers in the region have been facing for some time, now.

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  3. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zahnrad Kopf View Post
    Despite some people's penchant for trying to make everything under the sun political and personal, this is exactly what some of us were discussing. The existence of the issue itself, as well as how to remedy it. ( Is it even possible at this point? )

    Ironically, in that short time, we now find ourselves dealing with this, too. We are so busy that I have started looking at the possibility of hiring someone ourselves. And let me tell you, it's not so damn easy. I am considering looking for a youngster that we can train up, or a retired person that wants to be active and make money without dealing with the financial repercussions to their Social Security. The latter means less hours here, and the former means more of my time spent not working on customer parts. Paying the wage is actually the easiest part of the puzzle. It's finding someone that fits and is worthwhile that is the biggest challenge.

    That was a long way to say that I think that Foxconn will be finding themselves facing the very same issues that existing employers in the region have been facing for some time, now.
    I suspect that we are about 10yrs away from seeing a major improvement.

    It will take that long for young people entering middle school and high school to get the opportunity to even see the need and desire to choose a career beyond working at Star Bucks or other retail to career.

    The educational system will need to shift gears also and the parents need to challenge their children differently. There are a lot of high tech jobs that have the potential to pay well but yet they have a cultural stereotype of not being cool.

    It will take a paradigm shift in the mindset of the educational system also to get to where we need to be.

  4. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy2 View Post
    It will take a paradigm shift in the mindset of the educational system also to get to where we need to be.
    I am in agreement with you. The big problem facing ( likely ) the whole country is the question of ( for the moment accepting that it will change ) what we will do until that time. We ( collectively ) can squirt out button pushers and sweep-hands, but what will we do for actual Machinists and Toolmakers? What will we do for actual, critically thinking, skilled craftsmen? I know more than a couple business owners in this trade and they are ALL looking for those kinds of people, to hire them. But they are not having much success in doing so.

    So what do we/will we do collectively until that day when they are more commonly available?

  5. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5 axis Fidia guy View Post
    As a Wisconsinite I am somewhat glad this deal came thru, however, between Amazon, Uline, and every other company with help wanted signs on the door, they are going to have a very difficult to find the thousands of workers to pass the piss test.
    If the pay and or benefits are enticing , they won't have a problem.

  6. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spud View Post
    If the pay and or benefits are enticing , they won't have a problem.
    It sounds simple when we say it, but it actually isn't. I can personally take you to a few shops in this area that pay better than most others, and are great places to work, but can not get people to hire on right now. The shortage and market are such right now, that mediocre people can be very picky. It literally can be a matter not of battling dollar amounts, but rather of someone deciding which direction they want to drive, or whether they want to drive for 5 or 10 minutes less. ( and I have personally seen it actually come down to that )

    I find it a very bizarre situation.

  7. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zahnrad Kopf View Post
    I am in agreement with you. The big problem facing ( likely ) the whole country is the question of ( for the moment accepting that it will change ) what we will do until that time. We ( collectively ) can squirt out button pushers and sweep-hands, but what will we do for actual Machinists and Toolmakers? What will we do for actual, critically thinking, skilled craftsmen? I know more than a couple business owners in this trade and they are ALL looking for those kinds of people, to hire them. But they are not having much success in doing so.

    So what do we/will we do collectively until that day when they are more commonly available?
    You might laugh at me for saying this but one huge potential pool might be as close as our local hobby shops. That is where there are a lot of young gear heads hanging out having fun doing what they like to do.

    I'm not talking the buy it and fly or drive it crowd but the kids that like fixing or building the stuff that they are into. A lot of the core skills that these kids have often match very well with the skill sets we are seeking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zahnrad Kopf View Post
    I find it a very bizarre situation.
    Working in manufacturing sucks. I go into a lot of shops. Many pay well and have good benefit. I still wouldn't want to work there.

    The work is highly volatile. 6 months of mandatory overtime. 50 or 60 hours a week. Then overnight half the shop gets laid off and everyone is down to 30 hours a week. Management has no idea when things will pick up.

    The hours are stupid and not flexible. I have no idea what it is about machine shops, but they trip over themselves with pride about how early they start. Typical day shift in a machine shop is 6:00 to 2:30. Who the fuck wants to get to work at 6am? If you're a single parent, forget it. There are no day cares open at 5:30am. I've seen many shops that start at 5:00, or even 4:00 am.

    The work is often super boring and tedious. Even outside of the "assembly line", most work in a shop is just a grind. I know other clerical jobs and many white collar jobs can be really boring, but at least you are clean and cool/warm.


    I don't have a great answer to those problems, but in a world where manufacturing jobs don't pay very well, it's not hard to see why companies struggle to fill jobs.


    Recently I was asked to set up some CNC programs for a customer. The operator told me she was making $12.50/hr and pretty sure the were going to fire her because it was so hard to find someone to help her with her 2 kids in the morning so she could make it to work by 5:30.

    She can work at a restaurant or department store and make the same wage with a flexible work schedule more less volatile workload.

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  10. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post
    Working in manufacturing sucks. I go into a lot of shops. Many pay well and have good benefit. I still wouldn't want to work there.

    The work is highly volatile. 6 months of mandatory overtime. 50 or 60 hours a week. Then overnight half the shop gets laid off and everyone is down to 30 hours a week. Management has no idea when things will pick up.

    The hours are stupid and not flexible. I have no idea what it is about machine shops, but they trip over themselves with pride about how early they start. Typical day shift in a machine shop is 6:00 to 2:30. Who the fuck wants to get to work at 6am? If you're a single parent, forget it. There are no day cares open at 5:30am. I've seen many shops that start at 5:00, or even 4:00 am.

    The work is often super boring and tedious. Even outside of the "assembly line", most work in a shop is just a grind. I know other clerical jobs and many white collar jobs can be really boring, but at least you are clean and cool/warm.


    I don't have a great answer to those problems, but in a world where manufacturing jobs don't pay very well, it's not hard to see why companies struggle to fill jobs.


    Recently I was asked to set up some CNC programs for a customer. The operator told me she was making $12.50/hr and pretty sure the were going to fire her because it was so hard to find someone to help her with her 2 kids in the morning so she could make it to work by 5:30.

    She can work at a restaurant or department store and make the same wage with a flexible work schedule more less volatile workload.
    here here
    what is wrong with starting at a reasonable hour, it's just old tradition.
    ok yeah if you are in something like construction sure where you need day light,
    but really is any one working in machine shops that aren't artificially lit.
    and the machines sure don't care what time they start.
    and climate control the damn shop even the machines like it better.
    keep up with the times


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