It happened to me: Chinese rip off of my product

Chris Attebery · Jan 4, 2013

I make accessories for RC cars. There are a ton of companies making them so I try to find things nobody else is making or has thought of. I do this in my spare time and have been using guys I've found through PM to machine my parts. I have just finished putting together a small CNC mill so I can bring the machining in house and get a quicker turn around from idea to product.

So today one of my friends send me a link to an eBay post where some chinese hobby store is selling a knock off of my design. The stock part is plastic and looks nothing like mine so there's no denying that they ripped it off. I know there's nothing I can do. I know that my business is small beans and that nobody would help me even if I did make a stink about it. But at least I can come here and vent a little and know that you all share my pain.

Here's a picture of my product:

Here's a picture of the knock off:

Chris

ewlsey · Jan 4, 2013

Here's my thought:

The Chinese made it, but they didn't "rip it off". I would guess there are right around 0 RC cars sold in China. Those guys have no idea what it is, let alone how to make aftermarket parts for it. Is a niche product, not an iphone.

Much more likely, someone in the USA ripped off your design and had it made in China. That is not really China's fault.

Also, if you have no trademark or patent, there is no real protection to prevent you being "ripped off". If there is something novel about your design, you need to get a patent to protect it. If there is not special about it, and anyone can make it, you should not be surprised when they do.

adh2000 · Jan 4, 2013

This is exactly why you should be making your part in China. There's no denying the global market. If you don't seek out the lowest cost your competitor will and guess where that leaves you. Sucks but its reality.

ewlsey · Jan 4, 2013

adh2000 said:
This is exactly why you should be making your part in China. There's no denying the global market. If you don't seek out the lowest cost your competitor will and guess where that leaves you. Sucks but its reality.

Once again, this ain't no iphone or women's hand bag or Chevy 350 distributor cap. That is a dirt simple part. I highly doubt China will make them cheaper unless he can sell thousands a year. That isn't going to happen on RC car aftermarket parts.

I love your attitude by the way. It's a "global market", so f%*k it. I hope you can land a job pulling a rickshaw in America's new "service based economy".

TribalNewt · Jan 4, 2013

what kind of part is it???
I drive scale off-road... scale drifter... scale anything....
I have been in the scene for a while and can tell you that yeah they might have knocked off your design, but they made it out of cheap breakable plastic... i am a true believer in solid aluminum parts... I even made a custom front bumper/basher bar for my 1980's tamiya lunchbox... i have gone cheap in the past and i won't make that mistake again...

Chris Attebery · Jan 4, 2013

The part is a battery tray for the Losi SCTE. The stock tray puts the battery and ESC is a very forward position and makes the truck nose heavy. I designed my tray to fit the stock chassis, lower the CG and move the battery back up to 1" from stock. I did all the R&D and came up with a simple unique design. All they did was copy it. Again, this isn't a huge money maker, but it pays for my RC and machine hobbies.

Here's what the stock tray looks like:

To those of you with a sympathetic ear, thank you.

Chris

Mike_ · Jan 4, 2013

I agree with ewlsey, parts like this are knocked off regularly. The chinese likely had nothing to do with it though, somebody bought what you are selling and thought they could turn a profit through the chinese so they did.

I used to make niche products for a small hobby forum, I could almost estimate to the day when a new part I released would become available on e-bay through a chinese seller. I don't even bother trying anymore, so nobody gets new parts now. What the chinese currently sell is all there will probably ever be. If you've got a strong forum presence where you sell these things you might point that out, but it did me no good.

S_W_Bausch · Jan 4, 2013

I wouldn't worry about it, if you have created adequate cachet about your product, you have wonderfully excellent customer service, your retailers have access to web-based ordering, etc.

You were plaigarized by someone within your industry, or someone associated with your manufacturing, so...

A dumpter-dive may have been involved, do you confetti-cut all your office and manufacturing documents? Do you obligate your manufacturers to enforce intellectual property safeguards? And, which shop has an outside janitorial service with Asian employees?

Do your vendors sign confidentiality agreements?

Are you tight-lipped about mark-ups, do you "brag" about the alloy involved?

If your products are a commodity, your end-users don't need to know the alloy, your employees or customers don't need to know about your mark-up. If, however, your products (and the pricing structure) include a sizeable amount of customer service, then you need to vigorously enforce confidentiality, and stress the quality of the product.

You may also want to engrave your company name and phone number on the product. Perhaps you don't sell direct, but your phone number (or web address) allows anyone calling to locate a seller, and THAT is a value for your retailers.

Good Luck

Steve

Joe788 · Jan 4, 2013

ewlsey said:
Here's my thought:

The Chinese made it, but they didn't "rip it off". I would guess there are right around 0 RC cars sold in China. Those guys have no idea what it is, let alone how to make aftermarket parts for it. Is a niche product, not an iphone.

Much more likely, someone in the USA ripped off your design and had it made in China. That is not really China's fault.

Also, if you have no trademark or patent, there is no real protection to prevent you being "ripped off". If there is something novel about your design, you need to get a patent to protect it. If there is not special about it, and anyone can make it, you should not be surprised when they do.

Your vision of Chinese consumer products industry is a little bit out of date.

Back 10 years ago, they'd have "brokers" in the US that cold call domestic manufacturers to tell them how wonderful and inexpensive it is to have your products made in China. You'd give them prints, they'd have samples made, and then offer them to you at some low price. Whether you buy or decline, they go to all of your competitors and offer them YOUR product at the Chinese price. That's how half of the lift kit manufacturers in southern California got their ductile iron spindles.

Nowadays, it's much easier - especially with products they can just sell direct. There are thousands of Chinese manufacturers who have the capability to easily reverse engineer any simple "billet" item. If you look at virtually all of the "billet" trinkets manufactured for consumer industries, you'll find the two different styles: Made in house by a domestic manufacturer and sold through dealers, or sold only on eBay and drop shipped straight from China. The large companies who were sourcing billet trinkets in China are gone, because the Chinese manufacturers just started selling those items direct on eBay, and there's nothing anybody can do about it.

Joe788 · Jan 4, 2013

S_W_Bausch said:
You were plaigarized by someone within your industry, or someone associated with your manufacturing, so...

He didn't mention it in his initial post, but these parts are being made by a Chinese manufacturer, and drop shipped straight from China. It's a pretty popular scheme these days.

Gordon B. Clarke · Jan 4, 2013

Joe788 said:
He didn't mention it in his initial post, but these parts are being made by a Chinese manufacturer, and drop shipped straight from China. It's a pretty popular scheme these days.

I'm curious. How big a market is there for something like that? Quantity and price?

Gordon

Rob F. · Jan 4, 2013

Joe788 said:
He didn't mention it in his initial post, but these parts are being made by a Chinese manufacturer, and drop shipped straight from China. It's a pretty popular scheme these days.

Yes but how did the chinese manufacturer decide to make this particular part? :scratchchin:

Rob

Laurentian · Jan 4, 2013

Joe788 said:
He didn't mention it in his initial post, but these parts are being made by a Chinese manufacturer, and drop shipped straight from China. It's a pretty popular scheme these days.

Whenever I see something of interest on eBay and then come across the location ( Hong Kong ) I merrily continue my research. Usually end up buying a NA product used at auction, ebay, online or though my local tool rep. I just don't trust sending money there and ever seeing my item.

ihbuilder · Jan 4, 2013

Welcome to the RC aftermarket world . I feel for you , but it's going to happen :angry:

. your part and the chi-com part are similar but different . I've been to a patent lawyer on some of my products . al it takes is 1 little change and they're free and clear . Most likely someone here in the states did it I know of a few in the RC semi trucking world that are doing it as we speak . 1 of them bought a custom truck from a customer of mine for the sole purpose of coping every aftermarket part on it (some of mine :bawling:

) Although , he has a hard time copying my staple part cheaper

Gordon , you have no idea . If it was worth copying there's a market

CBlair · Jan 4, 2013

I had someone bring me a frame for a RC car they wanted made, it was pretty complex set of components for this car. Not hard to do with the right equipment and in quantity but hard to do for prototyping. By hard I mean hard to do cheap and this guy didnt have the money. So I went to the largest RC hobby store I could find in Atlanta and they told me that they had seen his parts and design and were not interested in selling it. They told me at the time that the RC market was so hard to work with because you had a 3-4 month period to sell what you had made before a cheaper one came from China and then he would sell that one. That is how long it would take for someone to send a sample to China and have someone there make a version of it and get it back in the stores in quantities high enough to sell nation wide.

I am sure there are those special parts that you can only get made here but most of those were custom parts and not in demand in larger quantities. Sorry to hear about your innovation being dragged around the corner and hored out so cheaply, kind of feels like a kick in the gut doesnt it. Someone said you can try to complain to customs and try to see if they will treat it like a cheap nock off of your brand, like a fake Gucci. But I doubt you will get very far, on the other hand, nothing ventured nothing gained.

Charles

Shadon · Jan 4, 2013

Sorry to hear about this Chris, but there is an angle you could use, playing on the consumers sence of patriotisim. Engraved on your product, "proudly made in the US" also serial numbers or some other type of authentication stamp and something on your website "How to tell if your RC car widgit is a fake"

My wife just went through this with a pair of "New Zealand made UGG boots" when the box came in it felt funny, you know how the Chicom cardboard looks and feels differnt? *clue #1* The hologram tag inside of the boots didnt look right *clue#2* Reading the instructions were the real kicker, you can tell when something is poorly translated *clue #3*

A few minutes at the UGG website proved our suspicions correct and we reported the knock off company and got our money back from pay pal, the website was full of information "how to spot a fake" "what to do if you get fake product" etc.

Trip59 · Jan 4, 2013

I have about a dozen items I hope to launch this year (several ventures), I have no doubt in my mind that someone will do this to me. I'm not going to patent, rather I'm going to push the benefits of mine and wave the flag, sell what I can and stand behind it. I start seeing them coming out of Asia, I'll be vocal about it on my websites and packaging, that I have "THE ORIGINAL" the "USA Designed and Made" etc. and hope the folks that buy the knockoffs come to me when theirs doesn't perform as desired or craps out on them. Now, I know that in the two industries I'm working with, that will make a difference. The customer base I'm after will see that and jump on it. Any chance that would work in your industry, push hard on a PR front?

Gordon B. Clarke · Jan 4, 2013

ihbuilder said:
Welcome to the RC aftermarket world . I feel for you , but it's going to happen . your part and the chi-com part are similar but different . I've been to a patent lawyer on some of my products . al it takes is 1 little change and they're free and clear . Most likely someone here in the states did it I know of a few in the RC semi trucking world that are doing it as we speak . 1 of them bought a custom truck from a customer of mine for the sole purpose of coping every aftermarket part on it (some of mine ) Although , he has a hard time copying my staple part cheaper

Gordon , you have no idea . If it was worth copying there's a market

If a patent is written correctly then it takes more than "one little change"

Trust me - I do know

As to "I have no idea" then I do havea pretty good idea. Anything that can be copied wil be copied and the main problem is that several Asian countries are very good at it. Other countries are too. Copying isn't against the law and I'll bet there isn't many in this forum that wouldn't copy something if they felt they could make it cheaper and perhaps even better.

China makes copies but research what the Chinese themselves that have money (and there are very many of them) in fact buy - they'll always go after the original. IMO there are too many Americans that just look at the price and then complain because they expected to get a gold plated product for the price of a nickel plated one :eek:

If something is very cheap there's almost always a reason.

Gordon

kpotter · Jan 4, 2013

I had someone copy my press the only thing they did different was paint it yellow. They used my description, the way I found out was a customer called me and said I want to order the yellow press not the blue ones you normally make. I had no clue what she was talking about then she sent me the picture and said see I told you that you made a yellow one. I called the guy up and he was in Austrailia so it was not big deal but he could have at least made it a different shape.

Gordon B. Clarke · Jan 5, 2013

I'm a bit mystified by some of the posts. There's a huge difference between copying something and violating a patent.

Having a copy made of something is in a way a compliment as the copier is admitting the idea is good. To make just about anything is done by seeing and thinking about something that exists even if it isn't exactly identical to the new thing.

If I copy something that already exists and make the copy better than the original is that still copying?

Is there in fact anyone here that hasn't stuck a piece of paper that had a © on it into a copy machine without giving a thought to the fact that they shouldn't?

Gordon

It happened to me: Chinese rip off of my product

Cast Iron

Diamond

Titanium

Diamond

Plastic

Cast Iron

Cast Iron

Diamond

Titanium

Titanium

Banned

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Stainless

Cast Iron

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Cast Iron

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Diamond

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