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    Default Healthcare - American style

    Assuming a majority of Americans wanted a healthcare system for all how could it be made to happen?
    As things are, and as I understand it, then good healthcare in the US is for those that have, and can afford to pay for it through insurance. There are of course those that either donít have any healthcare insurance because they canít afford it or donít think it necessary at the moment because theyíre never ill.

    Now I donít believe anyone is allowed to die in the street so when this type need care and hospitalization someone has to pay for it. The only ones I can think of that can pay are those that are already paying their healthcare insurance.

    Now if all paid something via tax (there canít be many that donít pay tax one way or another) then those that are paying their healthcare through insurance should pay less than they do now.
    Moving on. AFAIK no country has started any form of NHS without their government starting the ball rolling due to genuine concern and to public request. Once a viable scheme is agreed on then government should only be responsible for funding healthcare for all. No two countries have identical systems but the vast majority of citizens in the countries that do have a national healthcare system are happy with it.

    Where am I going with this thread?

    Most of you seem to know what you donít want but do any care to suggest what they would like and what might work in the USA? As things are at the moment the whole healthcare issue seems to be getting worse and that canít be good. If healthcare becomes political (as it is now?) then thatís that.

    I believe each state can partially decide what their ďstate taxĒ is so maybe it is possible for each state to have their own ďNHSĒ? Non state residents would have to pay whatever their own state or their own insurance didnít cover. Within the EU countries have reciprocal agreements and that works fine.

    Just my thoughts, no more, no less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Assuming a majority of Americans wanted a healthcare system for all how could it be made to happen?
    As things are, and as I understand it, then good healthcare in the US is for those that have, and can afford to pay for it through insurance. There are of course those that either don’t have any healthcare insurance because they can’t afford it or don’t think it necessary at the moment because they’re never ill.

    Now I don’t believe anyone is allowed to die in the street so when this type need care and hospitalization someone has to pay for it. The only ones I can think of that can pay are those that are already paying their healthcare insurance.

    Now if all paid something via tax (there can’t be many that don’t pay tax one way or another) then those that are paying their healthcare through insurance should pay less than they do now.
    Moving on. AFAIK no country has started any form of NHS without their government starting the ball rolling due to genuine concern and to public request. Once a viable scheme is agreed on then government should only be responsible for funding healthcare for all. No two countries have identical systems but the vast majority of citizens in the countries that do have a national healthcare system are happy with it.

    Where am I going with this thread?

    Most of you seem to know what you don’t want but do any care to suggest what they would like and what might work in the USA? As things are at the moment the whole healthcare issue seems to be getting worse and that can’t be good. If healthcare becomes political (as it is now?) then that’s that.

    I believe each state can partially decide what their “state tax” is so maybe it is possible for each state to have their own “NHS”? Non state residents would have to pay whatever their own state or their own insurance didn’t cover. Within the EU countries have reciprocal agreements and that works fine.

    Just my thoughts, no more, no less.
    What is your obsession with the health care system in the US? Clearly you have some sort of mental difficulty dealing with something that is none of your business. You probably should call the free traveling nurse for an evaluation. This is a machinist forum, if you want to prattle on about healthcare I am sure there are lots of appropriate places
    for you to force your opinion on others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    What is your obsession with the health care system in the US? Clearly you have some sort of mental difficulty dealing with something that is none of your business. .
    Megalomaniac, obviously didn't attract enough attention, last time he set out to rub your nose's in it.

    Would't this be the last similar Jihad he launched. - Health Care for All.

    Link >>>http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/manufacturing-in-america-and-europe/ot-health-care-all-333779/

    Apparently, there's no let up until you adopt the Danish system.

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    And so the trolls march in. What I don't get is if they know my posts will piss them off why open and read?

    Seems like some compulsory affliction. Obviously their healthcare doesn't cover it.

    Ladies, make it only about the USA and I'll keep my distance

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    And so the trolls march in. What I don't get is if they know my posts will piss them off why open and read?

    Seems like some compulsory affliction. Obviously their healthcare doesn't cover it.

    Ladies, make it only about the USA and I'll keep my distance
    The only troll here is the obsessed OP. How many more times are you going to post about health care. Never happy till you get a pissinmatch going on PM, and never about machine work.

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    Since it's your thread and your laying down rules I ' ll ask first.

    Can I comment on Canadian system since there's a lot of politicians that wanted people to believe that our healthcare is the model the US should emulate ? ... Trevor

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    Leetle child laying dying in London hospital, government states "child must die"

    and parents cannot take child elsewhere.

    Our president Trump has stepped up to do whatever is possible, second is the pope, who
    also offered care for this child.

    Stuff your "state run healhcare" righteousness and be gone from this forum, period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by t.jones View Post
    Since it's your thread and your laying down rules I ' ll ask first.

    Can I comment on Canadian system since there's a lot of politicians that wanted people to believe that our healthcare is the model the US should emulate ? ... Trevor
    There are no rules which should be apparent from the posts so far. The theme so far seems to be "Gordon is pissing us off again and forcing us to read his posts".

    Twin baby girls fight over pacifier - YouTube
    Maybe I should sell pacifiers?

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    "This message is hidden because Gordon B. Clarke is on your ignore list.
    View Post.
    Remove user from ignore list"

    The thread's existence is not hidden though, right at the top of the list.
    Read the title and you can guess who the "creator" is, what it will be like, how disconnected from engineering it will be. And you will be correct.

    The message is, of course, in plain view, pasted in #2.

    Apologies from PM users in Europe, I am sure most of us have nothing but good wishes for both US and Canadian PM contributors, and are embarrassed by this buffoon's infestation of your columns.

    Rich

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    Everyone in the USA has a right to health care but it is not in the constitution in any form so folks need to realize that.

    Anyone that needs to see any doctor or provider for any reason can freely do so.

    And every doctor and provider has invested huge sums of resources in their self and establishments and they too have the right to practice and also to charge for their services.

    We all have access to as n education system that certainly sis no the best but o e for which anyone can use to get enough skills to then seek further training and skills to allow them to perform work in such a manner that they themselves can pay for services that they themselves determine that they wish to buy.

    The constitution is a very clear document that establishes the rules of the playground and sets the duties of everyone.

    Nowhere does it state to steal monies from some parts of the populace to then control another part of the populace by supplying the stolen money to them...welfare state.

    The "forced medical insurance" required coverage for maternity care to men and folks past menopause as well as having deductible levels so high combined with limited participating providers that those who had insurance still had no medical care....we know this as we were one of those while doing contract work in the past.

    Folks not from here as well as folks from here who report the news need to first get the facts correct before anything else.

    Our government needs to focus on the constitution and do what it is required to do meaning it needs to get out of the way of the people and allow the people to thrive.

    It also needs to allow those who will not do anything for themselves to fail as only then will the folks who need help help themselves.

    Regarding those places where the government provides all of these things gs that is fine for them...but consider the tax rate and what the government does not do for them...The usa spends a great amount of our tax dollars doing things that allow them to thrive which may not be a bad thing but these same folks then complain about the usa while holding out their open hand...

    California is same...state is doing every anti trump thing possible while begging for monies for disaster recovery....

    Enough already....



    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManicMetalBasher View Post
    "This message is hidden because Gordon B. Clarke is on your ignore list.
    View Post.
    Remove user from ignore list"

    The thread's existence is not hidden though, right at the top of the list.
    Read the title and you can guess who the "creator" is, what it will be like, how disconnected from engineering it will be. And you will be correct.

    The message is, of course, in plain view, pasted in #2.

    Apologies from PM users in Europe, I am sure most of us have nothing but good wishes for both US and Canadian PM contributors, and are embarrassed by this buffoon's infestation of your columns.

    Rich
    And that's "Rich" living up to his aka
    At least the "manic" bit.

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    I went back to the OP to find out whether I had in fact written it in English.

    Wonder what the response/replies would have been if exactly the same thread had been posted by an American?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post

    A "furriner" obsessed with the USA keeps starting shit-stirring troll threads on a machinists forum and then has the nerve to suggest that Americans who don't join his fan boys in agreeing with him are "trolls" who should keep out of "his" threads.
    And he's right. If you don't want to see an endless repeat of this BS, the simple solution is
    DON'T FEED THE TROLL.
    Dennis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I went back to the OP to find out whether I had in fact written it in English.

    Wonder what the response/replies would have been if exactly the same thread had been posted by an American?
    I would have read it and then ignored it. You however keep beating this dead horse expecting it to move for you. Most of us are tired of your socialist views on this subject, You love the Danish system, great, carry on loving it. It's not what I and many other Americans want. If it matters so much to you, emigrate to the US, get your citizenship and do your best to socialize our health care, more power to you. Till you do, STFU.

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    I dunno if anyone here is interested in talking about healthcare. If not, that's cool. I get it that everyone who's chimed-in so far thinks I'm nuts, or a communist, or agent provacateur. I'm not any of those things. I'm just one guy with an opinion. Here it is:

    I think the best healthcare arrangement is "Medicare for All". To me it makes sense on several levels.

    First, it is a demonstrable fact that Medicare operates more efficiently than does the private market. You can Google this for yourselves if you don't believe me.

    The influence of insurance companies in the healthcare calculus is rather obvious. They cause premiums to be considerably more expensive than they need to be as a consequence of profit-taking. MFA takes these greedy middle-men out of the picture.

    Private insurers are apt to cut corners on patient care to boost profits. Govt. organizations sometimes do this too in order to cut costs. But, with Medicare, we can hold the organization accountable for patient care, demanding the best care rather than the lowest possible price. This isn't so easily accomplished when private insurers are in control.

    MFA creates a huge and diverse pool of patients. It will allow us to virtually dictate price to greedy doctors, hospitals, outpatient surgical centres, laboratories, etc. We can achieve huge price cuts for their services. After all, what alternative would they have? We could take legislative action to require them to treat MFA patients at fixed rates of reimbursement.

    Perhaps the biggest cost savings of all will come from prescription drugs. Big Pharma has been raping US consumers for decades with extremely high prices. I like to use this little illustration to show what I mean when talking about prescription drug savings:

    Lipitor manufactured by Pfizer Pharmaceuticals is one of the most widely prescribed prescription drugs on earth. Sales of Lipitor account for one-sixth of Pfizer's total volume each year. India which does not recognize patents owned by drug companies has negotiated pricing for its citizens for this drug. At my Pharmacy here in Tahlequah, OK the price of a 30-day 10 milligram prescription of Lipitor is $157. Consumers in India pay $4 for the same prescription. We can enjoy the same kind of pricing here in the United States. All that is required is a change in our point of view and adoption of MFA.

    There are other reasons to choose MFA as our healthcare plan of choice. I'll stop here though and say simply that I believe MFA is the way to go. I understand the people are skeptical of government run programs. It is true that the government doesn't have a great track record running big programs. Medicare seems to be an exception. After looking carefully into all of this it seems that Medicare does a pretty darn good job. And in fact government does a pretty good job with lots of things.

    I should probably mention cost before I stop. Obviously MFA is no good if we cannot afford it. I really don't know exactly what it would cost but I feel relatively certain that we could pay for it several times over by cutting the budget to the military. This would be my choice. At a time would we already spend five times more money than any country on Earth on defense the Trump Administration is looking to increase spending. It's just my opinion but I think this is utterly insane. Just think, we could pay for healthcare in its entirety by taking a reasonable cut in military spending. Wouldn't it be worth it to do so?

    For those of you who have taken the time to read my post I thank you. I make no claim to special expertise or anything like that. This is just my opinion based on everything I've been able to learn about the topic.

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Could the answer perhaps be that he wants to move here but first must convince us to establish Danish style policies so everything will be paid for?

    The level of fascination with America is extraordinary and IMO either the product of an unhealthy mind or the product of a hidden agenda.
    He want's us all un-armed as "soft targets", before he comes here permanently.

    Remember his Texas series of postings ?

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    Gordon your pissing into the wind mate, the americans are missing it. im with you but you can only lead the ill sick and dying so far before it becomes there own choice to either sort it or die in poverty.

    Starting thread after thread is never going to work, please let it die for once.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSquier View Post

    I should probably mention cost before I stop. Obviously MFA is no good if we cannot afford it. I really don't know exactly what it would cost but I feel relatively certain that we could pay for it several times over by cutting the budget to the military. This would be my choice. At a time would we already spend five times more money than any country on Earth on defense the Trump Administration is looking to increase spending. It's just my opinion but I think this is utterly insane. Just think, we could pay for healthcare in its entirety by taking a reasonable cut in military spending. Wouldn't it be worth it to do so?

    For those of you who have taken the time to read my post I thank you. I make no claim to special expertise or anything like that. This is just my opinion based on everything I've been able to learn about the topic.

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK
    We could not pay for MFA from the DoD budget, but we could if we pooled all insurance premium payments into one fund and negotiated with all health care providers uniformly, and guess what we would have a trillion left over every year for infrastructure

    dee
    ;-D

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    We could not pay for MFA from the DoD budget, but we could if we pooled all insurance premium payments into one fund and negotiated with all health care providers uniformly, and guess what we would have a trillion left over every year for infrastructure

    dee
    ;-D
    Thanks for this info Dee. I'm curious, though. Why do you think we couldn't pay for MFA with DOD funds? I think your suggestion is great, just wondering about this.

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK

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    So many people pissing and moaning against a National Heath Care System. Nobody has a better Idea as can be seen by the fumbling around going on in Washington. Eight years and they still have not come up with something worthwhile. The great Trump was going to give us a wonderful System the very next day. They are not going to bite the hand that feeds them - the Insurance Industry.
    I will say it again: " You can always count on the Americans to eventually do the right thing.....right after they try everything else first". Sad!

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