How should the us deal with mexico ?
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    Default How should the us deal with mexico ?

    I often wonder if we could find a way to help Mexico. The two country's unified together would be in a better position to compete against global competition. I don't have any first hand knowledge of Mexico, but the media pictures it as a country run by drug lords. If we worked with them and sent our military to destroy the drug lords compounds, would this be a possibility ?

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    By simply building a wall, and minding their own business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    By simply building a wall, and minding their own business.
    That sounds good, but what do we do when Mexico hooks up with North Korea and they build a military base there? Aren't we better off having them as an ally?

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    Quote Originally Posted by converterking View Post
    That sounds good, but what do we do when Mexico hooks up with North Korea and they build a military base there? Aren't we better off having them as an ally?
    "Help Them" How ? give them "most favored nation" status, and "give" them all our jobs ?

    Take their Poor ?

    Or maybe give them a "pinoche" ?

    Why not put the U.S. first for once ?

    And you can see how the U.S. has done for the past 70 years of "nation building"

    Now ask yourself...why would Mexico "side" with NK ?

    NK has no money, and nothing to offer Mexico.

    Doing so would also shut off all those factory jobs the U.S. has sent down there,
    and make Mexico fall under the same Iron curtain that NK is surrounded by.

    You think we need to "Pay for protection" ?

    What a crock.

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    Instead of importing low cost goods from China, I would rather buy them from Mexico. The US is surrounded by oceans on 2 sides and Canada and Mexico on the other 2 sides. To keep us safe we need support from both country's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    "Help Them" How ? give them "most favored nation" status, and "give" them all our jobs ?

    Take their Poor ?

    Or maybe give them a "pinoche" ?

    Why not put the U.S. first for once ?

    And you can see how the U.S. has done for the past 70 years of "nation building"

    Now ask yourself...why would Mexico "side" with NK ?

    NK has no money, and nothing to offer Mexico.

    Doing so would also shut off all those factory jobs the U.S. has sent down there,
    and make Mexico fall under the same Iron curtain that NK is surrounded by.

    You think we need to "Pay for protection" ?

    What a crock.
    What if China or Russia financed it for them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by converterking View Post
    That sounds good, but what do we do when Mexico hooks up with North Korea and they build a military base there? Aren't we better off having them as an ally?



    Do you think that is likely to happen? Why do you not already think they are an ally? Trade, billions a day, is the best way to make allies and friends.

    As for the drugs/narcos? Mexico doesn't have a drug problem, its the US that has the drug problem. Until that changes, efforts to stomp out the supply chain will accomplish nothing but to escalate the violent/instability.

    I've worked on the some big deals there. The educated class, the lawyers and engineers are I'd say just like here. There's corruption, but so is there everywhere. Probably more so there, partially cultural/legacy, partially narco but changing that is a bit swimming upstream. Not sure what help you think they need - they're already getting the biggest help they need, FDI and manufacturing industries

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    >>After running a trade deficit with the U.S. from 1991 to 1994, Mexico moved to a surplus in 1995, and that’s been the case ever since. Mexico has become a major producer of automobiles, electronics and appliances, to go along with its status as a large oil exporter.

    As a result, U.S. imports from Mexico soared from $65 billion when the North American trade deal was passed to around $295 billion in 2016.

    The U.S. has been helped, too, especially in border states such as Texas. Exports to Mexico have climbed from $68 billion in 1994 to an estimated $235 billion in 2016.<<<

    yeah, so let's throw out the 235 Billion in exports because ignorant trumpists cannot do math

    And yes, I buy tens of thousands of dollars worth of goods made by an American company in Mexico, do my work and resell them at a profit. Close off that market, and do you really think the US based companies are going to be competitive, or will I have to source off shore? Maybe you can write a letter to all my customers that the 30 percent price increase is Making America Great Again.

    I think they will buy elsewhere, as you have not proven particularly persuasive here.

    We make money from Mexico, and want to continue to do so.

    What do you suppose workers in Mexico will do when you eliminate all the good paying jobs in Mexico? Really? You think walls will stop them? I think not

    The best idea, to answer the thread title is to help them create wealth in Mexico, in whatever ways we can. Just Like Norway people who live in rich countries seldom crawl over fences to get into other countries

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    If they have it so good why are they sneaking into the US?

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    Quote Originally Posted by converterking View Post
    If they have it so good why are they sneaking into the US?
    Because for many of them it just plain sucks. Much of the work has evaporated in Southern Mexico especially since NAFTA. U.S. agribusiness corn imports have devastated small farmers who used to grow it as a cash crop, with vegetable gardens for family consumption.

    It ain't all roses on this side of the border for many of them either. They just traded life at the bottom in Mexico for life at the bottom in the USA. In many cases it's worse because they no longer have the stability of the extended family and village.

    PBS has shown some pieces on their Independent Lens series. The most recent I watched was about Salinas, CA. Most don't graduate high school and many get killed by gangs.

    The real solution IMO is to point the spotlight back at Mexico and the wealthy elites who run it. They could do more for their own people but they chose not to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by converterking View Post
    If they have it so good why are they sneaking into the US?
    American Food

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    "Help Them" How ? give them "most favored nation" status, and "give" them all our jobs ?

    Take their Poor ?
    We take a lot of their poor, California has 5 million of them if not more.

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    Spotlight on Mexico.

    This piece highlights some of the issues and why NAFTA didn't solve the problem. Everything in it has been known for years by those concerned about the problem.

    Immigration

    "The immigrant who arrives in the U.S. often made a stop at the border in a factory opened under NAFTA, one that did not pay and exposed the worker to toxic conditions. Possibly the flow of illegal immigration would stop at the doorstep of the U.S. if the wages and working conditions in the maquiladora jobs of U.S. companies at the border would actually support a family!"

    "Current immigration reform rhetoric ignores too much the role that globalization plays in pushing people out of Mexico and into the United States."

    Globalization, the same factor that caused so much devastation and job loss in the U.S. has caused problems for ordinary people all over the world. For the Mexican peasant class it has been catastrophic. While migration may solve the short term economic problem it doesn't get at the root of it and transplanting large numbers of low wage workers to the U.S. only spreads the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by converterking View Post
    I often wonder if we could find a way to help Mexico. The two country's unified together would be in a better position to compete against global competition. I don't have any first hand knowledge of Mexico, but the media pictures it as a country run by drug lords. If we worked with them and sent our military to destroy the drug lords compounds, would this be a possibility ?
    "Drug Lords" are a recent phenomenon, Mexico being older than the USA. One can only hope an impermanent problem as well. Key to a solution is that the the market for drugs dries up. I don't see that happening, though, as it would expect a major change in US "consuming classes".

    Our Military & Law Enforcement agencies? Many instances of cooperation.
    As many more where cash has subborned either side or both.

    Beyond PM's scope. Seriously, it is.

    Ex; Back of that drug trade, find a very different picture, but not necessarily one all that much more attractive.

    Oligarchs (in the beginning "Hidalgos" Hijo de Algo "son of some other". implying son of someone with power, influence, or both) long ran the economy of Mexico.

    Revolutions ensued. Many. Sometimes in parallel or contra each other, each shaping the landscape with blood, bullets, corruption, and no other word for it - every imaginable form of looting and a few that defy imagination.

    Far too complex a country for easy discussion.

    Far too little ANY outside agency, US least of all, can do to change it. They are doing that themselves. Always have done.

    Just not at the rate, in the manner, nor toward goals that please themselves, let alone anyone else.

    A better-controlled border, be it a wall or a fleet of drones (cheaper, actually) is not an end-solution. It is only one of the prerequisites for starting the process to find the first parts of what might become a solution.

    2 pesos worth

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    Screw the wall.
    I think we should offer to make them a territory. Keep their gov intact.
    Help them wipe out the Cartels( and the politicians in their pocket)

    then 3 guys on donkeys can patrol the Guatemala border to make everyone feel better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iwananew10K View Post
    Screw the wall.
    I think we should offer to make them a territory.
    They long had a similar standing-offer on the table. In reverse.
    We have had a fair number of wars, large to petty, after all.

    Their ruling powers have less than zero interest in any such arrangement. Their economy is, after all, very nearly the same size in GDP as that of the Russian Federation, and they have far the brighter future than Putinstan, warts and all.

    Do NOT judge that country on what you see of poor immigrants. It is those who have stayed home that run things.

    Treated to a meal of Mexico's finest by my host - head of Minisiterio de Prensa y Propaganda? French cuisine. Five star. Finest wines. Not actually a "French" restuarant, either. Just upper-crust Mexican - a heritage from Emperor Maximillian's era. That lot do NOT eat maize and frijoles!

    BTW - my host was of recent Baltic ethnicity, and Jewish, one generation back.
    Spain was but one of the European contributors to their elite. Opportunists have long sought fortunes in Mexico. His fortune had been built off the back of concrete technology and placement equipment.

    Nor do they much even notice the existence of those who have nought else.

    Still very close to a medieval Feudal Society at the top, "revolutions" or no, growing "middle class", or no. Incredible gap between great wealth and poverty.

    The "middle class" as is the great hope as an engine for change? Practically smothered between the sheer numbers of the less fortunate and the sheer money of the more affluent.

    The mixed lot of them will have to change things themselves. Or not.

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    No need to build a wall if American businesses lose their property and business owners go to PRISON if they hire illegals. Too bad for the American businesses if they have forged documents, better make damn sure before hiring them.

    2nd, ask for volunteers to man 50 caliber machine guns, post signs in English, anyone that keeps coming is fair game.

    Any business that puts products on display in stores with the Mexican language showing, fine 'em $500 a package.

    Any sanctuary city or state gets bombed by the US Air Force.

    Make all drugs legal

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    List of Mexicans by net worth - Wikipedia

    Many lesser millionaires not listed.


    86,700 millionaires in Mexico City per this list. # 19 of the top 20 cities for millionaires.



    And the peasants live in dirt floored huts in much of Mexico.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pathogen View Post
    No need to build a wall if American businesses lose their property and business owners go to PRISON if they hire illegals. Too bad for the American businesses if they have forged documents, better make damn sure before hiring them.

    2nd, ask for volunteers to man 50 caliber machine guns, post signs in English, anyone that keeps coming is fair game.

    Any business that puts products on display in stores with the Mexican language showing, fine 'em $500 a package.

    Any sanctuary city or state gets bombed by the US Air Force.

    Make all drugs legal
    I am trying to figure out if this guy is serious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    List of Mexicans by net worth - Wikipedia

    Many lesser millionaires not listed.


    86,700 millionaires in Mexico City per this list. # 19 of the top 20 cities for millionaires.



    And the peasants live in dirt floored huts in much of Mexico.
    And proud to have a single electric light and an outlet so the missus can earn an income with a recycled ELECTRIC Singer instead of her Mother's foot-treadle powered sewing machine. BTDTGTTS. I often learn as much by befriending my driver and my translator as I do from my client.


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