Illimois has a choice for senate

We no longer have a choice between "free trade senator A" or Free trade senator B". Alan Keyes has thrown his name in for the race and is against the "socialist free trade" of the predecessor, Peter Fitzgerald (Republican).

Fitzgerald has called it quits, unlike our other Democratic "free trade" senator, Richard Durbin, who continues to vote for every soverignty-destroying free trade agreement he can get his hands on.

Keyes' opponent, Democrat Barack Obama, is a free trader, whose "solution" for our trade woes is more tax changes.

Apparently, Obama is reading an updated version of the U.S. Constitution that I don't have.

My old version still reads:

Article I, Section 8

"The Congress shall have power...To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations..."

Mr. Obama's version must read:

"The World Trade Organization will have power to regulate trade..."


Steve

Steve,

Be careful there, Keyes from what I've heard on the radio, wants "reperations" in the worst kind of way. His of idea of reperations is to allow any "decendant of slavery" to go tax free for 1-2 generations. This means that even Oprah Winfrey, and Kobe Bryant as well as anyone else in this country who claims to have a great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great uncle who served in slaver deserves to get out of paying income tax for their lives and their kids life. Kind of nice ehh?

In writing this, I am by no means being racist, what we did to blacks was horrible, however any politician who lead me must be required to think and act practically. This is not practical and Unamerican!

I too believe in reperations and they go as follows. Any living human being who was forced to work against his will under the soverignty of the United States of America, should be properly compensated for the time he/she spent working at the going wage of the work they did.

However saying every black in America doesn't need to pay taxes is rediculous and unfair. My families were not here during slavery. Rather my family was being persecuted, tortured, killed and sometimes enslaved or imprisioned in Europe and Russia, and still I don't deserve any compensation. Actually I thank god they got the heck out of there and came to the US.

Adam

Adam

I am Irish and hoping for reparations from Britian for what they did to my great great Grama Mamie O'Grady. 2 of my kids are half black and I don't think they deserve reparations, but then I don't even think they deserve to borrow my car.

There is the prospect of one side of the family paying reparations to the other side of the family. Since the Gov't gets a cut for administering, it just means more wasted taxes.... :>

--jr

Guys, I know how Keyes stands on the reparations issue, and for me it will never happen because you can't define what a descendent is. 67% of black children in America don't even live with their biological father, half of them probably don't know who their biological Dad is, let alone grandparents, and forget about tracing back 4 or 5 generations.

Is a kid that is 1/8 "Black" (what ever "Black" is) due 1/8 tax break?

Even if some of this goofy crap happens, it will be dwarfed by the benefits of returning to our tradition of protectionism. Just imagine TVs, shoes, toys, cars, all coming back to America to be made in U.S. factories, paying high U.S. wages, paying U.S. taxes, and all of that other imported stuff having to pay through the nose, the taxes that we have been paying for the last 4 decades.

Gives me goose bumps. My son might have a future.


Steve

And what about blacks whose great great great great whatevers themselves owned slaves? Oh yeah, the dirty little secret that nobody brings up. Plenty of former slaves found or bought freedom and themselves owned and sold slaves. Anyone going to figure out who is related to them and make them pay as well?

"and is against the "socialist free trade" of the predecessor

Click to expand...

Would Mr Keyes care to explain exactly WHAT is "Socialist" about these "free trade" agreements? Seems to me that the ones benefiting from them are all those CAPITALIST corporations, no?

"Socialism" would mean to me that the WORKERS were in control of the means of production, and the WORKERS (of all countries involved) were negotiating these agreements for THEIR benefit. Doesn't sound like what's happening AT ALL, now does it?

Or is this just another example of a right-winger using the word "socialist" as a convenient slur against any centralized quasi-governmental body that they happen to disapprove of?

Machinehead61,

You said: "it will be dwarfed by the benefits of returning to our tradition of protectionism. Just imagine TVs, shoes, toys, cars, all coming back to America to be made in U.S. factories, paying high U.S. wages, paying U.S. taxes, and all of that other imported stuff having to pay through the nose, the taxes that we have been paying for the last 4 decades."


It doesn't work that way. The USA imposed heavy tarrifs and penalties on Canadian lumber two years ago. Those amount to about 37% duty on all Canadian lumber exported to the US. At the time the price of lumber was around $230 per MBF. Now two years later everyone in the USA is paying through the nose for lumber as it is approaching record high prices of around $448 per MBF. You are getting screwed and the lumber companies on both sides are laughing all the way to the bank. The ones in the US are laughing louder but you aren't seeing any benefit. It doesn't create any new jobs in the US, just fatter fat cats.

Having a protectionist duty instead of a politically negotiated agreement allows Canadian companies to dump as much as they please into the US market since they are already paying the "fine" for doing so. The protectionist duty is actually hurting the US.

I point out that not one dime of the duty goes to the US government, it all goes to the US forest companies.

N2IXK-

Good point. What is "socialism" ?

Ask 100 "socialists" what is socialism and you'll get 100 answers.

John Hallowell defines the basic agreement among socialists:

"There are many varieties of socialism but all socialists agree that the principal source of evil in the world is the institution of private property and all, although in varying degrees, advocate the common ownership of all the means of production as the cure."

Such a system requires a massive government to intervene in the natural greed of human nature.

"Free Trade" is an oxymoron. Trade has always been regulated by the participants to protect their own interests.

Free trade, i.e. trade with no barriers, is an impossibility without a governing body.

Nations left to their own free will, become protectionist. That is the history of trade. Survival of the nation comes before the welfare of any other nation.

Therefore, "Free Trade" as is being implemented in NAFTA, GATT, FTAA, WTO, the EU, etc. is highly regulated.

NAFTA is an 1,100 page agreement filled with regulations that never existed before.

These trade agreements are direct challenges to national sovereignty and self determination.

But that is the bigger goal, global government, implemented in gradual steps inside trade agreements.

The Europeans are just beginning to understand just how much control the EU is really after. It is going after control of court systems, legislative bodies, every aspect of government.

That is the "socialist" parallel that Alan Keyes alludes to, along with Pat Buchanan, Charles Collins, the John Birch Society, etc.

It really isn't socialism, it is an international dictatorship of a relatively few powerful elite.

That is the danger of socialism. A government that is powerful enough to regulate the behavior of mankind is powerful enough to control mankind.

Our nation was based on the Bible. Our government was only intended for a moral and religious people. A people that would essentially govern themselves. That is what Christianity's goal is. For men to surrender their own selfish will and submit to a higher power and live by the laws dictated in the Bible. Socialists, humanists, Communists, have no "Bible" that they can agree upon. They don't believe in a higher power to submit to. Thus they slip into the depths of greed and depravation.

Evan-

In case you haven't noticed, we Americans are paying through the nose for everything. As the Federal Reserve must continue to create currency out of thin air to replace the currecy leaving our shores through the trade deficit, it devalues the dollar. You should see the price of gas, milk, housing, land. Consumer debt is now over 9 trillion dollars as we must borrow to live as our job base and tax base are burned on the alter of "Free Trade". Come down here some time and take a tour through the stores and then look at the job adds in the paper. It ain't pretty.


Steve

You need to listen to the american philosopher Ferris Bueller. "Ism, Schmism.... it won't get me no car".

economics are always locally simple.

--jerry

The basic underlying tenet of socialism/the liberal-left is the denial of private property rights. They need to destroy this concept for that then will permit them to steal what ever it is that they want including ones freedom and life. One means to obtain this goal is to deny one the right to exchange one’s property (broad definition) with another person, i.e. free-trade is evil and must be eliminated. Socialism, because of it’s need for massive government intrusion in one’s life, to function, eventually degenerates to evil, pure and simple. JMHO

"Socialism, because of it’s need for massive government intrusion in one’s life, to function, eventually degenerates to evil, pure and simple..."

Not always. I have been to Denmark, a highly socialist society and state. The government is benign and not overly intrusive although it is a cradle to grave welfare state as is Sweden and Norway. Canada is also far more socialist than many states. For some reason it is possible to avoid the really negative consequences of socialism, at least some of the time. I don't like the political system here in Canada but it seems that when the socialist system is founded upon a Constitutional Monarchy as is the case here and in the Scandanavian countries there seems to be a moderating effect that prevents it from getting too far out of hand. The government here in Canada is easily arguably much less intrusive than the present regime in the USA. We don't have troops wandering around the city streets armed to the teeth. We don't have internal identity checkpoints. We do have a corrupt government but are saved by it's incompetence.

NAMpeters-

Guess what, I agree with you. See, not all hope is lost for me. By the way, you did not respond in the other thread about Upton Sinclair, the Ludlow massacre, and the Walsh commission verifying Sinclairs depiction of the events in Colorado.

Evan-

The condition in the socialist countries in Europe isn't too bad, yet.

I don't know anything about their day to day living, but I do know that they are well on their way to religious persecution, especially Christians.

The philosophy of Christianity and Socialistic states is in conflict. I believe in Sweden, a pastor has now been arrested for preaching to his congregation in his own church, the evils of homosexuality.

The liberal mindset of socialists embraces just about any deviate behavior known to man, from sexual perversions to drug usage. In their socialist "tolerant" minds, tolerance of these lifestyles is allowed, but no tolerance of the opposing Christian view is.

So a pastor has been arrested for a "hate crime".

The thought police are alive and well in the socialist nations and who can oppose a government that is based on the precepts of humanism when you are a Christian?

Better get out before they start filling the prisons with "hate crime" Christians.

As for the police running around in the U.S. it's probably worse than you realize.

The global socialist "New World Order" boys are gaining control.

In Waco, Texas, the real crime was the Federal government's violation of the Posse Comitatus act of 1878 which prohibits the use of military personnel to search, seize, arrest, or detain U.S. citizens.


Between August 1992 and April 1994, General Wesley Clark was commander of the 1st Cavalry Division of the Army's III Corps at Fort Hood, Texas. According to a report by the U.S. Department of the Treasury, the list of military personnel and equipment used at Waco included: 15 active-duty military personnel, 13 Texas National Guard personnel, nine Bradley fighting vehicles, five combat-engineer vehicles, one tank-retrieval vehicle and two M1A1 Abrams tanks. Additionally, Fort Hood reportedly was used for much of the training for the bloody attack on the Davidians and their children.

Welcome to "Amerika". More to come.


Steve

you been hijacked...

run "butch" anti viral SW, and spy ware - fast!.

Hijacking is a lot more complex - google on the site name and add "hijack" to it...

--jr

I was out of work for 6 months (I left my last employer because of unsafe shop practices and unethical business practices , I didn't want to be around when the hammer fell).
During this time I decided to see how the system worked. The long and short of it was if you are over 40, white, moderately successful, pay your bills on time,have good credit you will get nothing and to add even more gas to the fire after only working 4 months out of the last year I had the biggest tax bill I ever paid, Why? Because I sold some assets and stocks to pay my bills on time rather than be a dead beat.
If were a loser with bad credit and sniveled and whined about some make believe disabilty I could have scammed big time. Truly sad, success is penalized.

I don't know anything about their day to day living, but I do know that they are well on their way to religious persecution, especially Christians.

Click to expand...

Souds remarkable like the U.S. to me . A country that does not allow students to offer a christian prayer at football games. A country that forced the removeal of a plaque with the ten comandments from a public building. A country where a case is in court to remove roadside crosses in memory of fallen police officers because someone might just see the cross and feel that they are being forced to see a "christian cross" A country where in many cases it is not accepctable to mention Christmas , Christmas trees must be called a holiday tree and a manger seen is not allowed.

Evan,
You told one side of the story on Canadian lumber. The rest of the story is that Canada was DUMPING lumber in the U.S. The U.S. took the issue up with the Canadian government and got no changes. The U.S. then took up the issue with the World Trade Organization, the WTO found that Canada was indeed "DUMPING" through the Canadian government's stumping fees and subsidies to their lumber industry. Import duties were put in place to bring Canadian prices in line with American prices.
The largest impetus to the increased prices of lumber was the re-building of Iraq. The U.S. government ordered such huge quantities that the lead time at the mills went from 3 weeks to 4 months. Supply and demand. With a backlog that large, of course the price went up. The prices went up on ALL construction goods, electrical wiring, steel, copper, and lumber.
AL

The U.S. then took up the issue with the World Trade Organization, the WTO found that Canada was indeed "DUMPING" through the Canadian government's stumping fees and subsidies to their lumber industry. Import duties were put in place to bring Canadian prices in line with American prices

Click to expand...

This in fact totaly false. This dispute has been ruled on 5 times in the last number of years by bvarious trade organizations and Canada has been vindicated each time. The latest ruling was by a Nafta panel which was agreed on byb the U.S as the proper dispute resolution process. The panel which included americans ruled again against the U.S but the U.S. still refuses to comply

Don,
Can we get a block on an unregistered member (Fred) it's kind of obivious what he is trying to do. Better yet drop the delete axe on his posts.

Scott

Scott:

How's that.

MH 61:

Your opening post says "unregistered". Is that you and do you want to keep the post or the topic going?