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  1. #81
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    Assembly of the cars employs maybe 1500 people. Making all those parts that go into a car probably employs 15,000 people. FWIW...I remember reading an article some 20 years ago and they pointed out that even in the best of cases for an American car made in America, over 65% of the parts were imported.
    Auto manufacturing employment is all about the parts that go into the car. Not assembling the final product.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tim9lives View Post
    Assembly of the cars employs maybe 1500 people. Making all those parts that go into a car probably employs 15,000 people. FWIW...I remember reading an article some 20 years ago and they pointed out that even in the best of cases for an American car made in America, over 65% of the parts were imported.
    Auto manufacturing employment is all about the parts that go into the car. Not assembling the final product.
    Some should check where their air filter is made, Chances are India - not Indiana.
    Some suppliers would stamp "MADE ON THE MOON" if you asked them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    Brake on the left and shift on the right is the way all bikes should be. Once again uncle sam sticks his nose where it does not belong.
    I couldn't disagree more. By putting clutch and shifter to left hand and left foot, and throttle, front brake and rear brake to right hand and right foot it not only uses the brain more efficiently but makes it easier for automobile drivers to adapt to bikes.

    Of course I grew up on the Japanese imports that were that way from the start and later switched to Harley but IMO not only is the setup more efficient but the "one down, x up" version of foot shifter is safer when decelerating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Some should check where their air filter is made, Chances are India - not Indiana.
    Some suppliers would stamp "MADE ON THE MOON" if you asked them.
    I'm afraid the good habit of indicating where parts are made is fading away while nobody does anything about it. I remember some years ago air filters for a rather prestigious sedan where marked as being made in Ghana. Lots of pains cleaning the old ones until a suitable German made stash could be secured.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tim9lives View Post
    FWIW...I remember reading an article some 20 years ago and they pointed out that even in the best of cases for an American car made in America, over 65% of the parts were imported.

    Between the US and Canada there was the auto pact long before free trade. GM makes cars there and here, with parts flowing in both directions. I think that is the biggest part of the 35% and it can be argued that there is a balance such that it is not really detrimental to your economy. otoh with the Japanese companies, it is probably is a strong point that claiming made in America when its just assembled here is a snow job.....its likely unilateral, we know how difficult and insular they are with trade

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    Brake on the left and shift on the right is the way all bikes should be. Once again uncle sam sticks his nose where it does not belong.
    Did not know uncle sam had anything to do with it.
    Always thought it was user preference and market demand.
    Looked it up and you are right. Appears the Japanese won that battle with our help.
    We also taught them quality control at a level past our own during this time period..... Strange.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    I couldn't disagree more. By putting clutch and shifter to left hand and left foot, and throttle, front brake and rear brake to right hand and right foot it not only uses the brain more efficiently but makes it easier for automobile drivers to adapt to bikes.
    If what you care about is making it easier for automobile drivers to switch over, we best go back to left foot clutch, right foot brake and hand shifting.

    I truly fail to see how left foot or right foot uses the brain more efficiently. Lots of people would hop from a left-foot shift to a right-foot shift between races, no problem. I even did it, and I'm only a little better than a moving pylon. Never finished last, thank god.

    IMO not only is the setup more efficient but the "one down, x up" version of foot shifter is safer when decelerating.
    Then you've never ridden on a race track. As you come off the turn you need to shift up. When you are heeled over there's no room to get your foot under the lever to upshift. On braking you should be upright, on the street at least. So no advantage there to your way. One up is the way pretty much all roadrace bikes have been for the past fifty or sixty years, for a reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    .....
    Then you've never ridden on a race track. As you come off the turn you need to shift up. When you are heeled over there's no room to get your foot under the lever to upshift. On braking you should be upright, on the street at least. So no advantage there to your way. One up is the way pretty much all roadrace bikes have been for the past fifty or sixty years, for a reason.
    Not understanding this at all.
    Go fast turn left (flat track, ice racing) it would seem shifter right would be better if your way was was true? Yet you do not run or shift this way.
    MX , hare scrambles, ISDT Enduro, road tracks not so much but one does have to brake hard when laying down or sideways on such.
    In only a few of these do you every get down to first gear but bottom neutral is .... not good if you have raced one.
    Sometimes you loose count.
    Agree that grabbing a handful of the front brake for a normal street rider in a corner is a very, very bad idea and only barking while upright and straight should be taught and I do this.

    I do get liking the reverse brake/shifter and had the habit for a while but it is not natural for me across a handful of toys.
    Switching back and forth is what sucks.
    Particularly if riding hard. There is that panic mode you get into sometimes and anyone who denies it is lying or not pushing the edge.

    You can drive both a right and left car just as fast and deep and still run in the top 5 places? I'll call BS on that.
    One develops muscle memory and responses that are faster than your brain can think.
    You do not think, you just do and later wonder just how the puck you pulled that off.
    One would like to think that I'm just skilled and smart but ........ deep inside you know you made a bit of a conscious decision and the training and lessons learned took over.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    We also taught them quality control at a level past our own during this time period..... Strange.
    Bob
    Nobody in the USA was interested in listening to Deming at that time.

    Deming Prize - Wikipedia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    And, on the other claw, my 2003 Ford F150 was made in Canada. Damn imports. Used to own a Ford Escort- and THAT was made in Hermosillo Mexico. I think Trump needs to be attacking Ford and Chevy, and those damn Italians who build those Dodge Rams in Mexico, and leave the japanese alone- My Honda Element is from Marysville Ohio.
    but....here was likely more "made in America" in the Canadian assembled truck than the assembled in Ohio Honda because of the huge back and forth parts manufacturing base that goes across the border in both directions. Balance of trade should be the real focus imo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    I do not think that*China is really a free country. Look what they did to the president to be wife's boyfriend.
    Bill D.
    modesto, CA. USA

    But no, not 20/20 hindsight and not blurred memories (yet). I prefer 60's cars. I get to do that. It's a free country
    [/QUOTE]

    Where's there a free country? Stop and think how many rules regulations bylaws and laws govern your life. Not like I want anarchy, we need rules....but don't delude yourself either of us have freedom. Squashing it is what bureaucracies live for, and perpetuating the lie is what lets politicians live.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Not understanding this at all.
    Go fast turn left (flat track, ice racing) it would seem shifter right would be better if your way was was true? Yet you do not run or shift this way.
    I don't know ice racing but in flat track, you don't get to shift and the left foot is busy holding the bike up, so you kinda have to brake on the right. In fact, the best years of flat track didn't even have brakes, so neither one was a problem

    For a good thirty years XR's had the brake and the shifter on the right. That would give Joan a heart attack

    MX , hare scrambles, ISDT Enduro, road tracks not so much but one does have to brake hard when laying down or sideways on such.
    I don't see much advantage in dirt but on pavement, leaned over, coming off a turn you want to accelerate. Pushing down on the lever is easy. Getting your foot under the lever, all leaned over, to try to upshift is not so good for the foot. Nowadays people hang off more so it's less important, but again, not too many people hang off on the street ...

    In only a few of these do you every get down to first gear but bottom neutral is .... not good if you have raced one.
    I don't think anyone has neutral on the bottom. That would be evil ...

    I do get liking the reverse brake/shifter and had the habit for a while but it is not natural for me across a handful of toys.
    Switching back and forth is what sucks.
    Particularly if riding hard. There is that panic mode you get into sometimes and anyone who denies it is lying or not pushing the edge.
    That's not been my experience ... maybe because people used to expect it ? Guys would hop off a Triumph onto a Honda no problem. I had a wop bike that shifted left and a murican and a brit bike that shifted right, no problem. Run the 250 class left foot, open gp right foot, wasn't a big deal.

    You can drive both a right and left car just as fast and deep and still run in the top 5 places? I'll call BS on that.
    Not going to claim to be an ace but never phased me. And Calvin did it all the time. Win the expert-junior combined on a left shifter, hop off and win the big bike race on a right shifter.

    In the old dayes Stirling Moss and the rest did the same thing in cars. There were race cars with different pedal layouts.

    One develops muscle memory and responses that are faster than your brain can think.
    You do not think, you just do and later wonder just how the puck you pulled that off.
    One would like to think that I'm just skilled and smart but ........ deep inside you know you made a bit of a conscious decision and the training and lessons learned took over.
    I don't think it's that big a deal. You shouldn't be using the rear brake anyway. For most people, in a panic stop using the rear brake is just asking to go down.
    Last edited by SeaMoss; 12-04-2017 at 12:58 AM.

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    Breaker one nine, Reese's Pieces, you out there, son ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    NO thanks, been there, done that, and lay in the gutter changing 20 dollar generators every 10,000 miles.
    Just ran Smokey through mplayer, with the sound turned up. Haven't seen it in a while ... you are welcome to the Jap crap, son

    I don't care if the new front-drive shit with buttons and leevers up the wazoo lasts for 500,000 miles and kisses your heinie after you take a poop, gimme that old-time religion and a front-engine rear-drive small block with no god-damn electronics !

    Vanishing Point is up next, got me a date with a hitch-hiker and a coupla Cats, catch ya on the flip-flop.

    East bound and down, loaded up and truckin',
    we're gonna do what they say can't be done.
    We've got a long way to go and a short time to get there.
    I'm east bound, just watch them ol' farts run.


    10-4

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    Just ran Smokey through mplayer, with the sound turned up. Haven't seen it in a while ... you are welcome to the Jap crap, son
    I owned the 50th Trans-am, the original black and gold and with a CB.
    At the insistent of the girl friend went to see smokey at a drive-in not knowing what would roll out of that trailer or any clue.
    (yea it was the mass produced 76 in the show with the winking front end but still.........)
    A not really fast car but necessary to make it do what it could upon exit after the movie and a real pain later on the CB radio.
    I wish they had never made this along with Back to the Future which would forever doom another of my cars.
    Movies ruin cars and the love you have for them as your babies.
    Bob

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    Seems to me, consumers are better off having Japanese and German competitors in the US market. Forty years ago I was a manufacturing engineering manager at Ford. That company has made huge strides in quality beginning about then -- and much of it was in response to competition, especially from affordable and decent quality Japanese cars. It certainly shaped and motivated our decision-making at Ford back then.

    Government also had a somewhat positive role in mandating CAFE requirements. Without those, CEOs might have continued to move up to ever larger and more expensive gas guzzlers; right up to the point of extinction. Instead, companies like Ford and GM are now competitive in compact, small, and mid-sized cars.

    The issue of bringing back jobs is more difficult. For a couple decades, US auto bosses moved production wherever they could find cheaper labor or incentives -- and avoid unions. Part of that was because the UAW was a pain to deal with. But as the Fremont plant showed when it moved from being a GM-run plant to a Toyota-run plant -- a whole lot of the disfunction was US auto management.

    In any case, good auto jobs are disappearing on their own thanks to automation. Good thing is we have startups like Tesla, the styling capital of the world noted earlier, a still pretty robust domestic auto industry, and Japanese and German companies building here. We also have one of the world's strongest car cultures and lots of US companies serving the after market.

    As for Trump's complaint that he's looking out for us by bashing Toyota, Honda etc. a few points. First, as most everyone above has said it's mostly a made up complaint, typical of Trump. We'd lose more if other countries kicked out US companies making cars there. Second, our own auto industry execs presided over the loss of share. GM once had higher market share than all other makers combined; but then came guys like Roger Smith and flat out better competitors. Third, auto supply chains are now so globally entangled (witness the air bag recall) that we're not likely to make any huge impact on jobs or balance of trade in the "legacy" auto industry.

    Real bottom line is that we still haven't figured out where the next generations of blue collar jobs are going to come from. Not everyone gets a graduate degree in some STEM field or gets born into the 0.1%

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    Good, more for me ! Although all the ones I like are expensive now 64 Galaxie 500 at the top of the list, small block and, now that there's no drive-ins, bucket seats. Remember when the cup holders wore poodle skirts ? Do you still keep it in second and fourth ?

    But I gotta ask ... what were you driving that you had to lie in the gutter to change the generator ? I've never seen one, even on the ghastly e-type, that you didn't attack from above.

    And even in 64, Fords had alternators ...


    I see you're not a donuts guy I hate front drive. Absolutely hate it.

    btw, I was stuck with a Honda Accord (or maybe it was a civic ? they all look the same) for a couple months once ... got to where I could change the head gasket in an hour and a half. Did it three times before I got my own car back and returned the stinking Honda.
    maybe you should have done it right the first time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by janvanruth View Post
    maybe you should have done it right the first time?
    No, that particular model had a problem. A friend who worked at the dealer told me the tricks to beat flat rate, which is why I could do it so fast. And he had a reason for knowing those tricks If it had been mine I'd have scrapped it. Junk engine. The head gasket between 3 and 4 was too skinny or unsupported or something. Honda ain't perfect either.


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