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Jobs,jobs,jobs and jobs.

juergenwt

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Feb 2, 2008
Location
Wheaton, IL.
What is the one thing that every politician call's for?
Jobs - again and again.
What is it you never hear? A detailed plan to create real jobs!

The thing I would like to ask one of these blah-blah guy's is: Just how are you going to create jobs? What proposal's have you made?
How are you going to to train people and train them doing what? Who is going to train them? After you train them - than what?

I am sure the people on this forum will come up with many more questions to ask.
How many more Insurance people do we need? How many more Real Estate Agents? How many more young College graduates working as Bartenders or in Landscaping etc..
Where is the initiative of the private industry for training programs? Where is the government showing leadership for the development of meaningful training programs?

Now all agree the biggest problem is in the big cities and just screaming for jobs is not going to help.
First there must be a will and than the opportunity to work and learn.
They all scream about the crime in the big cities but nobody has come up with a way to make the young people after High school commit to a period of training for a real job. And even if there was a meaningful training program available - than where are these newly trained people gong to work?

I believe it is time for our private sector to realize that without a formal training program they will be out of business very soon.
For the Government it is time to say we will support and direct a nationwide movement to reconstruct our school system and our training programs. What was good 100 years ago when the US was still somewhat rural - is no longer working. For the Industry to have an attitude of: Why should I spend my money on training when I can just hire someone away from another company or we will hire and train a few people just so they can do just one job, no more-is just not good enough.

Our Industry must realize the changes that have occurred over the last fifty years. Having used the European Continent as the training ground to supply the American Industry is no longer working. The last wave of skilled workers to come here is now retiring and today's immigrants come in three categories:

1. The highly educated group of doctors, scientists and computer specialist, and than
2. the ones who's background in dealing an wheeling in their home country qualifies them to open a small business and
3. the big majority of uneducated, untrained workers.

What is missing is what's needed to sustain a highly industrialize country like the US: trained craftsmen. By "trained" I mean trained and tested in a formal nationwide program for the industry and not in so called "on the job" deals.
"On the job" training, combined with set requirements and verification could be a good way for small shops to go.

Next time you hear a politician talk about jobs, jobs, jobs just ask: WHAT TYPE, WHERE, WHEN, WHO AND HOW?
INTELLIGENT COMMENTS, OPINIONS AND SUGGESTIONS ARE WELCOME.
 
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Plenty of politicians have plans

privatize parts of the military. Creates jobs for blackwater and haliburton.
Lower minimum wage. Lower pay per job equals more jobs.
destroy unions
entice rich multinational companies with tax handouts. But dont entice them from oversees. Entice them from the next state. THen go up on taxes for local businesses to pay for it.
 
Enact a tariff on all goods proportional to the distance between production and consumption(purchase or use). An easy way to do this is to tax the snot out of shipping.
 
Off the top of my head - (and willing to be convinced that these might need some alteration)

1.) Rescind Most Favored Nation Status for China
2.) Approve Keystone Pipeline
3.) Flat Federal tax 15% - no deductions for anything/anybody - not for dependents, not for charitable giving, not for mortgage interest, nothing, nada
4.) Government budget limited to 85% of tax revenue with remaining 15% go toward paying down the debt
5.) Once dept is paid off - lower tax rate to 10% flat tax
6.) Change congress / senate / presidential terms to One and Done - 4 year terms for congress and senate and 6 years for president
7.) Any GREEN initiative should have a lifecycle analysis on environmental impact (i.e. if a wind generator consumes more energy to produce / erect / service than it can produce in a lifetime . . . do not approve)
8.) Change US Education system to reflect a two track focus - Vocation should be based on natural aptitude / skills and abilities rather than assuming everyone should go to college.
 
I remember the day I realized that no one owes me a job, food, sheltor, or even an education. I felt so liberated knowing that it was all up to me and that if I lived in an alley it was my choice. This is coming from a die hard progressive union loving guy. If more people were not afraid of failure more businesses would be started. I have failed at so many things, I sucked at school I stunk at baseball I was a terrible runner and I am unable to measure stuff. All these people who are unemployed had better take things into their own hands no company is coming to the rescue and the only thing the government is going to do is make sure you dont starve to death.
 
"6.) Change congress / senate / presidential terms to One and Done - 4 year terms for congress and senate and 6 years for president."

Abolish the electoral college.

Recind the corporate right to vote.

Do what switzerland is about to do: Abolish golden parachutes for corporate execs, and
pass a law that requires the 1 in 12 rule: The total span of wages in any corporation
can only be 12 times what the lowest worker is paid.
 
"6.)

Do what switzerland is about to do: Abolish golden parachutes for corporate execs, and
pass a law that requires the 1 in 12 rule: The total span of wages in any corporation
can only be 12 times what the lowest worker is paid.


Now that sounds totally socialistic...but I like it..:)

Charles
 
Sorry - forgot one last point.

Right now the US is heading towards a massive economic shrinkage. Does it look like the
depression of the 1930s? Not yet.

Private industry has given up employing workers as far as I can tell. I propose a national
service act - all kids have to perform some kind of national service upon graduation from
high school, or upon their departure if they don't graduate.

This would be a no exceptions, no exemptions national service that could be fulfilled by
entering the military, by working in inner city schools or hospitals, by working in industry.
Yes it will be funded by the federal government, just like the CCC and WPA of the 1930s.

Kids from the suburbs will go to the cities, kids from the inner cities will go to rural areas.

Education in a trade would be possible, and the saturated labor pool would get a break
from that age group for a bit.
 
7.) Any GREEN initiative should have a lifecycle analysis on environmental impact (i.e. if a wind generator consumes more energy to produce / erect / service than it can produce in a lifetime . . . do not approve)

Gave you a big time like, and singled that line out because of your line of business.
Have you ever looked inside an grid-tie-inverter?
Can you justify the asking prices on a 3KW single phase inverter without the subsidies? How'bout the 7.5KW ones?
Even on the 'Bay they're stupid, let alone the shii$t they're pulling in CT, where an electrical contractor cannot install a PV system without a specific license!

I own 27KW of solar panels that I bought on an auction for $.25/KW. The average quote to install was $17,000 + inverters+facilities by 3 separate so called "solar" companies.
BULLCRAP!!! I can do the mechanicals, I can do the majority of the elctricals. My electrical contractor can do the grid-tie for time+material, I will not be playing the garbage!!!
I'll install 6 KW at my house with a single-phase inverter, the rest will go to the shop with 3 x 7.5KW for a 3 phase hookup. All without any help from the "lottery" system our leaders-in-charge set up.

3000W Grid Tie Power One Aurora Solar PV Inverter PVI 3 0 Outd s US | eBay
Italy? Really? We can't make one here for half of that here? ( actually I think that one is manufactured in Romania )
 
It is not the Goverments job to create jobs. It is their job to govern. Once they get back to that the jobs market will thrive again.

IMO that post nails the problem and certainly not just in the USA.

The wealth of all countries is made by those that manufacture and produce sellable products. It's the money from this that funds everything.
The question is how many politicians have worked in the producing and manufacturing industry before going into politics?
As already mentioned in this thread then giving the opportunity through education to those willing and able to work within manufacturing will almost certainly create more jobs than those dreamed up by politicians who in fact know very little about what happens outside their own little universe.

Has anyone ever seen a politician on a guided tour of a manufacturing company and having to be prepped when to ask and which questions to ask?
I think most politicians are guided by their "backers" whether it be through "funding" or lobbying which isn't only sad but tragic.

Gordon
 
Most politicians do not come from a mfg. background. Many of them were Lawyers.

Guru's post. of COURSE he would love to see flat taxes. They are super for the rich. He even wants them to go to 10%, in future.

Government does not MAKE jobs, it just puts money into the Economy to allow companies TO hire.
I grew up in a company that gave me a shot AT a machine job. 2 weeks to prove you can do it. I will admit that CNC, mebbe 2 weeks isn't enough, mebbe 4 weeks. But, then, how long does it take to teach them to hit the Green button to GO, the Red button to STOP.

Actually, maybe some of you should be more willing to hire and train greenhorns. The old timers you are looking for are all retiring. You have a very limited base to hire experienced people FROM, because you will not hire and train.

Guru,

Though you seem so smart, at times, this makes you sound like a dick.

"Congress and Senate get the same healthcare plan that they "planned" for the rest of us.
No retirement for serving in congress, senate or president."

See FactCheck.org : Health Care for Members of Congress? They actually have to pay part of their premium,,just as you do, and I did, before I retired.

There was no pension for a President until 1952, when Harry Truman retired. He was destitute, and I think the Congress decided that a past President ought not be. I applaud THAT Congress.

#2 Keystone Pipeline will not save you one goddamned penny in fuel cost. That is designed to transport tar sands oill and midwest oil, cheaper, to Texas, so it can be shipped overseas cheaper than by barge or truck. You will pay MORE for oil products than you do now, with an easier route to export, just as you will for Nat Gas , when approval is given to ship 2.1 BILLION CF per day. Marcellus Shale produced 685 BILLION CF last year. That is one year of export.

The US will NEVER be "energy independent", because you can always make more money selling offshore than keeping it here. Just as you can most often make money BUYING offshore and selling here.

Most of you, "Mochinists", Do buy where you can get the best price, NOT US made, just because!

George
 
Off the top of my head - (and willing to be convinced that these might need some alteration)

1.) Rescind Most Favored Nation Status for China
2.) Approve Keystone Pipeline
3.) Flat Federal tax 15% - no deductions for anything/anybody - not for dependents, not for charitable giving, not for mortgage interest, nothing, nada
4.) Government budget limited to 85% of tax revenue with remaining 15% go toward paying down the debt
5.) Once dept is paid off - lower tax rate to 10% flat tax
6.) Change congress / senate / presidential terms to One and Done - 4 year terms for congress and senate and 6 years for president
7.) Any GREEN initiative should have a lifecycle analysis on environmental impact (i.e. if a wind generator consumes more energy to produce / erect / service than it can produce in a lifetime . . . do not approve)
8.) Change US Education system to reflect a two track focus - Vocation should be based on natural aptitude / skills and abilities rather than assuming everyone should go to college.
1) Probably wouldn't help at all, in fact it would cost tens of thousands of jobs in the short to medium term, as a trade war would kill all of our exports to China...110 Billion dollars last year.
2) Pointless as well, there would be few direct jobs and those would be offset because the oil would just go over seas.
3) Also meaningless...it would do nothing to increase the demand for labor. Voodoo economics is like pushing a rope, it hasn't worked for the last 40 years and still doesn't. Killing mortgage deduction would kill the housing sector dead.
4) Would cost millions of jobs, just like every where else austerity measures have been put into place. In fact 1-2 points of our current unemployment are the result of public sector layoffs. What's more it would require cutting spending to pre WWI levels...which makes no sense in the modern world.
5) See 3.
6) What does that have to do with jobs?
7) See 6.
8) Still does nothing to help the job market, if there are no jobs it doesn't matter what sort of education you have.

I think you missed the point of the question.
I think the question you answered is "How do I start a trade war with China and torpedo the US economy while making sure the middle class fills the oligarchy's Cayman island accounts"
 
George -

A couple of comments -

Flat tax would eliminate loop holes - plain and simple - I as a small business owner will pay roughly 30% of corporate profits to the IRS this year - while Obama pal Zuckerberg with Billions in profits will get a "tax credit" - Hundreds of thousands of small business owners who employ a millions of skilled workers will pay out 25 - 35 percent of profits that could be used to buy more equipment and hire more people with which to gain a competitive edge in the world economy. I don't begrudge paying taxes - but the system is broken and small businesses are where many jobs will be created if tax revenues were developed in manner that did not favor huge publicly traded companies.

According to you, I need to start hiring more green horns - the average age of an AMS employee at present is mid-30's and getting lower year by year. You made an assumption to support your world view which doesn't accurately reflect my reality. We design CNC machines - and your assertion of only needing to press RED and GREEN buttons is woefully inaccurate.

I did not say that congress / senate don't pay for part of their health care - I said they get a much better quality of health care than they dictate through legislation for the rest of us. While this is changing - it would be impossible for the average American citizen to receive the same level of health care as a lawmaker without bankrupting the nation. Special access to the best hospitals, no pre-existing condition restrictions, tax payer funded to the tune of 90% of premiums.

Pensions for lawmakers after serving for as little as one term = ridiculous - speaking fees for speeches should be adequate income for retirement If a politician is savvy enough to make it to a political post, they should have no problem making a living - and if they do have a problem making a living, perhaps they need to enroll in a government retraining program that they created for the rest of us. Today, the vast majority of politicians that have money problems after leaving office typically are guilty of gross mismanagement and/or crimes justifying jail time. eg Jackson, Rostenkowski, (I could spend all day finding examples), etc.

The Keystone Pipeline point is NOT lower cost energy although this could very well be the outcome - you are making assertions that go wide of the content of my post.

The Point of the Keystone pipeline is to create construction jobs, engineering jobs, and supporting jobs for those workers. Please review job growth in the Dakotas related to energy exploration and production and tell me with a straight face that jobs would not be created. Energy related to this project that is exported results in income to our country that would otherwise go to other countries that are extracting / processing energy. This would be a great alternative to just printing more money as the present economic gurus seem to think appropriate.

As for energy independence - you need to get out more:

crude-production-v-net-imports.gif



Miguels - next time you are in the NW - Sercos III will likely take a back seat to ethics, politics and logic, you have a lot of learning to do. ;) (George, you are welcome to join us, but no 50 cent beer will be served)
 
We are used to hearing how much faster the earnings of the top 1% grow compared with everyone else's, but we often forget that it used to be the other way around. From 1943 to 1980, the annual incomes of the bottom 90% of Americans doubled in real terms, while the average income of the top 1% grew just 23%, according to
 
George -

A couple of comments -

Flat tax would eliminate loop holes - plain and simple - I as a small business owner will pay roughly 30% of corporate profits to the IRS this year - while Obama pal Zuckerberg with Billions in profits will get a "tax credit" - Hundreds of thousands of small business owners who employ a millions of skilled workers will pay out 25 - 35 percent of profits that could be used to buy more equipment and hire more people with which to gain a competitive edge in the world economy. I don't begrudge paying taxes - but the system is broken and small businesses are where many jobs will be created if tax revenues were developed in manner that did not favor huge publicly traded companies.
Business only hires when there is a demand for a product. Besides you just eliminate depreciation and capital investment credits so it's a wash.

I did not say that congress / senate don't pay for part of their health care - I said they get a much better quality of health care than they dictate through legislation for the rest of us. While this is changing - it would be impossible for the average American citizen to receive the same level of health care as a lawmaker without bankrupting the nation. Special access to the best hospitals, no pre-existing condition restrictions, tax payer funded to the tune of 90% of premiums.

Pensions for lawmakers after serving for as little as one term = ridiculous - speaking fees for speeches should be adequate income for retirement If a politician is savvy enough to make it to a political post, they should have no problem making a living - and if they do have a problem making a living, perhaps they need to enroll in a government retraining program that they created for the rest of us. Today, the vast majority of politicians that have money problems after leaving office typically are guilty of gross mismanagement and/or crimes justifying jail time. eg Jackson, Rostenkowski, (I could spend all day finding examples), etc.
Which has fuck all to do with jobs for working people.
The Keystone Pipeline point is NOT lower cost energy although this could very well be the outcome - you are making assertions that go wide of the content of my post.

The Point of the Keystone pipeline is to create construction jobs, engineering jobs, and supporting jobs for those workers. Please review job growth in the Dakotas related to energy exploration and production and tell me with a straight face that jobs would not be created. Energy related to this project that is exported results in income to our country that would otherwise go to other countries that are extracting / processing energy. This would be a great alternative to just printing more money as the present economic gurus seem to think appropriate.
The number of jobs Keystone would bring is an open question.
Comparing it to the gas fields is naive. All those jobs are ephemerial, as are the construction jobs in the pipeline.
Keystone Pipeline Jobs - How Many Would Be Created

Of course by that logic we should remove all review of ALL industrial manufacturing proposals...
I remember industrial grade pollution and having black flag days here in Denver.
We were not allowed to go out to recess.

Beijing air anyone?

As for energy independence - you need to get out more:
We are well on our way to energy independence.
I was in Walla Walla last week and drove up the gorge from PDX. Hell of a lot of wind up there.

If you want to talk jobs look at what Vestas had to do here...
https://www.google.com/search?sourc...0.145.1014.6j4.10.0...0.0...1ac.1.1aUxsQtFIFc
Miguels - next time you are in the NW - Sercos III will likely take a back seat to ethics, politics and logic, you have a lot of learning to do. ;) (George, you are welcome to join us, but no 50 cent beer will be served)
Only after work...I only talk economics after hours with a handy libation or two. :)
 
I was in Walla Walla last week and drove up the gorge from PDX. Hell of a lot of wind up there.

If you flew into PDX - you were 10 minutes from my shop . . .


Business only hires when there is a demand for a product. Besides you just eliminate depreciation and capital investment credits so it's a wash.

I guess I have done it wrong all of my life as a business owner - as have all of my friends . . . Janicki Industries | Composite tooling supplier for aerospace, space defense, marine, wind energy and ground transportation industry., Welcome to Electroimpact . . . have a couple of good ideas, sell your house, put your ideas into a working model, borrow from your folks if you need to and see what happens . . . (oh, and hire a few people to help you get your ideas built) . . . work your butt off, treat people right and pretty soon you have a business that feeds hundreds of families - no government hand-outs, and by God's grace, your risks pay off.

We are slow right now in the shop while our engineering staff is going great guns doing clean up work for two of our biggest customers. I am building a mezzanine in the shop to keep guys busy (search mezzanine on this site) . . . your mindset is completely foreign to me and I wouldn't even blink an eye when hiring someone who I felt would be a good employee even if I didn't immediately have something for them to work on.

Even if the pipeline jobs were temporary (and they wont all be) - by that logic, no job should be allowed if there is a chance it isn't a permanent job. And - many of the jobs that will be created will be related to environmental compliance - not a chance that this will result in skies like those in Beijing.

I was in Walla Walla last week and drove up the gorge from PDX. Hell of a lot of wind up there.

All operating at a net energy loss for the investment to put them up at huge tax payer subsidies and killing an unprecedented number of birds while they are at it. AND a huge reason why the government should not be involved in picking winners and losers in the energy market.

As for the job losses at Vestas - within the last year, we have hired 3 decently trained employees as a result of the downturn in wind energy jobs and redeployed them to energy sector jobs (here) that do not require subsidies with which to survive. Google Lucid Energy or Agilyx . . . we design the brains that make these projects go. You have to know Sinumerik and Simotion to work on these projects in addition to understanding the ramifications of UL1741 (and we are still hiring people with these skillsets OR - more commonly hiring fresh out of college and training them.)


Lastly - the comments about lawmakers / health care / term limits / etc. are indeed related to job creation. Strip all of this crap out of the government and it wont be so hard to slash the budget. The mindset that people have whereby they get a golden udder to latch onto whenever they are involved with the government (either by employment or contract) reveals the truth that their is simply a lot of waste and entitlement related to the government. Cut all this pork out and there wont be a need for high taxes or year after year going deeper in debt.

Pay off the debt by limiting spending to a percentage of income - fix the income side with a flat tax and no deductions.
 
I guess I have done it wrong all of my life as a business owner - as have all of my friends
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We are slow right now in the shop while our engineering staff is going great guns doing clean up work for two of our biggest customers. I am building a mezzanine in the shop to keep guys busy (search mezzanine on this site) . . . your mindset is completely foreign to me and I wouldn't even blink an eye when hiring someone who I felt would be a good employee even if I didn't immediately have something for them to work on.
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As for the job losses at Vestas - within the last year, we have hired 3 decently trained employees as a result of the downturn in wind energy jobs
So you are saying that if there is no demand for your products you will hire people with the 'spare money'
Would you have hired those Vestas folk out of the goodness of your heart if the tax rate were lower?

.
Lastly - the comments about lawmakers / health care / term limits / etc. are indeed related to job creation. Strip all of this crap out of the government and it wont be so hard to slash the budget. The mindset that people have whereby they get a golden udder to latch onto whenever they are involved with the government (either by employment or contract) reveals the truth that their is simply a lot of waste and entitlement related to the government. Cut all this pork out and there wont be a need for high taxes or year after year going deeper in debt.

Pay off the debt by limiting spending to a percentage of income - fix the income side with a flat tax and no deductions.
Your math doesn't work out.

Unless you REALLY think government spending in the range of the early industrial revolution makes sense in this day and age.
Suppose Obama had taken office and don what you suggested and balanced the budget, over the last 6 years there would have been 1 trillion dollars removed from the economy each year.
Do you think that would have helped a delicate recovery?
Seriously?

And the lawmaker comments really ARE out of context regarding near and mid term jobs growth.

You are mistaken regarding the EROI of wind.
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/1863

All fossil fuels are energy negative, they take sunlight from millions of years ago...with no return to the energy pool.
As for picking and backing winners...the fossil industry has a HUGE Federal subsidy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies
Hell just limiting the liability in oil spills is essentially 'picking winners'
 








 
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