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Moving to Germany as a machinist?

A

Autodiattack!

Plastic
Joined
May 4, 2016
Hello, All!
I want your help ironing out my plan for the next three years of my career.

I'm new to the trade. I started as an operator 4 years ago, moved up into mold maintenance, and have had my current position as a Tool Maker I (but really just apprentice) for about a year and a half. I'm obviously still very fresh, but I'm getting better using manual mill, manual lath, EDM, wire, auto and manual surface grinders, and CNC mills every day.

Here's the catch. My dream lies in a completely unrelated career.
If I'm to accomplish my dream (Computaional Neuroscientist) it will mean spending 8 years minimum in school. So I have a choice: signup for a lifetime of debt or go to school in a country which boasts welfare education even for immigrants. I've done the research and Germany is by far the most advantageous country for this approach for many reasons.

Here's my plan

Because of my weak Highschool Diploma I will have to spend two years in a university here before I qualify for any German university. I will spend that time working at my current position and building my experience as a machinist. I will learn to speak German. I will fill my Kennedy with metric equipment and convert my imperial prints into metric before machining. I will research German history and politics and try to learn what it means to be a German citizen.

And then I will move to Germany, possibly for the rest of my life.

So my questions for you:
What are your thoughts on the machining trade in Germany? What should I do to prepare myself? What job would you look for if you were moving to Germany with my limited skills? Is it possible to be a part time CNC operator?

I see a lot of guys on here who deserve respect for the knowledge they've gained over a lifetime of machining. You've probably forgotten more than I'll ever know about machining.

I'm looking forward to your advice.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems as if your reason for choosing Germany is because you believe that's the country where you'll get the best education at the lowest price.

For the past few years Germany has been flooded with immigrants and immigration has been tightened immensely. No European country is going to give you a free education so how much money do you plan on taking with you? I'm also assuming you'll want a place to stay and eat daily. That isn't free either.

As far as I can see the least of your worries will be learning the metric system.

If you have never been to Germany then I suggest you go there (vacation) long enough to get a feel of the different areas.

You seem like a nice person albeit very naive. Let's take one thing at a time. How much money do you intend taking with you AFTER you've been to Germany on a longish "vacation".
 
As someone who is casually attempting to learn German, if you can learn to speak it fluently, then computational neuroscience should be a piece a cake :D.

Have you looked into job prospects in Germany once you graduate?

Will you have some money saved up before you leave? What area of Germany will you move to? How much government support will you receive? If I ever did something this I would probably want a years worth of savings to live on without having to work (about 15-25K Euros). If your German is decent by the time you arrive, it shouldn't be too hard to find a job, especially since you speak English as well.
 
Thank you for your replies!

@Gordon:
Actually my primary reason for choosing Germany is because of the Bernstein Network. In place since 2004, it is a funding initiative aimed at creating young, qualified cybernetics researchers. The hub of it's wheel is in Technische Universität Berlin, which is my goal (Also has high % of international students). I'm aware of the immigrant crisis, but I don't think that will damage my employ-ability. The reason Germany is pro immigration and encourages international students is because of a lack of skilled workers in it's economy. Germany has an unemployment rate at around 6%, but most of those jobs service-related or otherwise unskilled, which is bad for growth. The refugees coming are being welcomed as a long-term solution, as they are not filling the skilled worker gap. Public schools in Germany have a flat admitions fee plus materials, which adds up to a ballpark of 200-400 euros per semester. Am I wrong? I like the idea of vacationing there for a while, but for how long? Two weeks? That's a lot of time off work for me and I'm not certain the benefit would justify the cost (both up-front and lost work time).
Please cure my naivete.

@Rapid_tech (and Gordon):
Currently I have $11k for use as reserve until I can attain sustainable income. That pool will grow a little over the next two years as well. Job prospects will be in-line with the Bernstien Network parners. The Max Planck Institute for Biological Cybernetics stands out as a stretch goal.

@Sea_Farmer:
That is a very long story which escapes the topic of this thread. Essentially it's about using computers to better understand the brain. PM me if you want more detail!

EDIT: adding detail.
 
Autodiattack! said:
Hello, All!
I want your help ironing out my plan for the next three years of my career.

I'm new to the trade. I started as an operator 4 years ago, moved up into mold maintenance, and have had my current position as a Tool Maker I (but really just apprentice) for about a year and a half. I'm obviously still very fresh, but I'm getting better using manual mill, manual lath, EDM, wire, auto and manual surface grinders, and CNC mills every day.

Here's the catch. My dream lies in a completely unrelated career.
If I'm to accomplish my dream (Computaional Neuroscientist) it will mean spending 8 years minimum in school. So I have a choice: signup for a lifetime of debt or go to school in a country which boasts welfare education even for immigrants. I've done the research and Germany is by far the most advantageous country for this approach for many reasons.

Here's my plan

Because of my weak Highschool Diploma I will have to spend two years in a university here before I qualify for any German university. I will spend that time working at my current position and building my experience as a machinist. I will learn to speak German. I will fill my Kennedy with metric equipment and convert my imperial prints into metric before machining. I will research German history and politics and try to learn what it means to be a German citizen.

And then I will move to Germany, possibly for the rest of my life.

So my questions for you:
What are your thoughts on the machining trade in Germany? What should I do to prepare myself? What job would you look for if you were moving to Germany with my limited skills? Is it possible to be a part time CNC operator?

I see a lot of guys on here who deserve respect for the knowledge they've gained over a lifetime of machining. You've probably forgotten more than I'll ever know about machining.

I'm looking forward to your advice.
Click to expand...

It is possible to build up a lot of student loan debt in college, but it is not a certainty. If you're planning for 8 years of college, then I assume you want to go to graduate school. Even in the U.S., most graduate schools will cover your tuition and pay you a modest monthly stipend if you're in the physical sciences, biological sciences, engineering, etc. (If you're in the social sciences, however, you probably will rack up some serious debt.)
 
@Tomato Coupe
The statistics are not in my favor. I have no parental backing, and a poor academic history which invalidates me from any private grants. That leaves me with FAFSA, Pell Grant, and Colorado Opportunity Fund. the latter two being exhaustible grands that aren't enough for a two year associates, and the former is just another way to get into debt. On top of that, I won't be raking it in once I graduate. Researchers aren't renowned for their wealth. This is how most people make it out of a 4 year degree: http://ticas.org/posd/map-state-data-2015
 
Autodiattack! said:
@Tomato Coupe
The statistics are not in my favor. I have no parental backing, and a poor academic history which invalidates me from any private grants. That leaves me with FAFSA, Pell Grant, and Colorado Opportunity Fund. the latter two being exhaustible grands that aren't enough for a two year associates, and the former is just another way to get into debt. On top of that, I won't be raking it in once I graduate. Researchers aren't renowned for their wealth. This is how most people make it out of a 4 year degree: http://ticas.org/posd/map-state-data-2015
Click to expand...

If you're planning on doing research, then I assume you're planning to go to graduate school, which is what I was addressing. If you get into graduate school, they will take care of you.

I was in graduate school for a long time, and I never paid a dime for it. I finished with a modest amount of student loan debt, but it was mainly from my undergraduate days. In fact, I saved enough money during graduate school that it exceeded my loan amounts. It can be done ...
 
Autodiattack! said:
@Tomato Coupe
The statistics are not in my favor. I have no parental backing, and a poor academic history which invalidates me from any private grants. That leaves me with FAFSA, Pell Grant, and Colorado Opportunity Fund. the latter two being exhaustible grands that aren't enough for a two year associates, and the former is just another way to get into debt. On top of that, I won't be raking it in once I graduate. Researchers aren't renowned for their wealth. This is how most people make it out of a 4 year degree: State by State Data | The Institute For College Access and Success
Click to expand...

What are the requirements for the school/university you want to get into in Germany? How do you know you will be accepted?
 
@Tomato coupe
Does that apply to medical schools as well? The plan is to go for a "Bulky" computer science degree, meaning that it includes pre-med requisites as well as providing an option for entry level software engineering. Then go on to med school. My field of interest is interdisciplinary, and 8 years is just the minimum. It is unlikely I will make the first degree in 4, all things considered. But I've not been in school since I began work life, so my projections are suspect. With that said I'm looking up grad programs right now . . .. but compared to the european alternative this avenue still seems bleak.

I really would like to know more about my prospects in Germany . . ..
 
Autodiattack! said:
The reason Germany is pro immigration and encourages international students is because of a lack of skilled workers in it's economy. Germany has an unemployment rate at around 6%, but most of those jobs service-related or otherwise unskilled, which is bad for growth. The refugees coming are being welcomed as a long-term solution, as they are not filling the skilled worker gap.
Click to expand...

Check your information again as to the tendency the last 6 months. Germany, like Sweden has flipped almost 180º.

Berlin is a great city and you won't need a car but I still suggest you go there first to see if it is how you imagine it to be.

Visit Berlin - 5 Things You Will Love & Hate about Berlin, Germany - YouTube

The Real Berlin - YouTube

http://www.workpermit.com/germany/employer.htm
 
One of the very few times I disagree with Gordon on facts...

Most of Europe will give you a (somewhat) free education.
Scandinavia, probably germany, spain many others (dont have details on many, so not authoritative, but still ...) (depends).

But what he meant, I think, is that free=/=free.

I´m speaking from personal experience, having moved countries 4 times (Finland, Tanzania, Zambia, Spain) with languages (Finnish, Swahili, English, French, (Swedish), (latin), Spanish.

Points:
I moved to Spain to start a business, in 1999, 17 years ago.
Did not speak Spanish, at all.
Went well. Was not too hard (language/culture), for me. But my case is different..

Many immigrants arrive to Spain (EU all over) from africa, south america, learn the language, some work, some do ok to well - to very well.

Your plan is good.
If you execute, it will work out fine.
Its hard to do, and most dont make it.

Germany is a tough place.
Everyone is smart, well educated, and demands a lot.
They dont respect foreigners who dont work/do stuff well or speak german.

(Surprisingly, Spain is similar).

Germany is Your best bet.
Easy to enter (vs the better places like switzerland, very hard to enter unless rich), excellent pay.
Scandinavian countries would also be good, but crap weather, why I left.

You can get a basic crap job in germany, immediately.
Pay is higher than in the US.
Hours are shorter.
Overtime is 50% extra after 8 hours.

Germans (and all EU in general) like people who work.
Concept:
We could not care less where from and why you came, as long as You also pay Your taxes.
Almost all are deducted from your payroll by law.

Americans are very welcome.
 
Autodiattack! said:
Hello, All!
I want your help ironing out my plan for the next three years of my career.

I'm new to the trade. I started as an operator 4 years ago, moved up into mold maintenance, and have had my current position as a Tool Maker I (but really just apprentice) for about a year and a half. I'm obviously still very fresh, but I'm getting better using manual mill, manual lath, EDM, wire, auto and manual surface grinders, and CNC mills every day.

Here's the catch. My dream lies in a completely unrelated career.
If I'm to accomplish my dream (Computaional Neuroscientist) it will mean spending 8 years minimum in school. So I have a choice: signup for a lifetime of debt or go to school in a country which boasts welfare education even for immigrants. I've done the research and Germany is by far the most advantageous country for this approach for many reasons.

Here's my plan

Because of my weak Highschool Diploma I will have to spend two years in a university here before I qualify for any German university. I will spend that time working at my current position and building my experience as a machinist. I will learn to speak German. I will fill my Kennedy with metric equipment and convert my imperial prints into metric before machining. I will research German history and politics and try to learn what it means to be a German citizen.

And then I will move to Germany, possibly for the rest of my life.

So my questions for you:
What are your thoughts on the machining trade in Germany? What should I do to prepare myself? What job would you look for if you were moving to Germany with my limited skills? Is it possible to be a part time CNC operator?

I see a lot of guys on here who deserve respect for the knowledge they've gained over a lifetime of machining. You've probably forgotten more than I'll ever know about machining.

I'm looking forward to your advice.
Click to expand...

Dude, Have you even contacted any Professors in Mechanical engineering at any school in the US (Midwest particularly). You should make a resume, mention all your skills and start knocking on their doors and start talking to them. Some big research groups in grad schools always need machinists for prototype developments, making fixtures for testing etc.
 
hanermo said:
One of the very few times I disagree with Gordon on facts...

Most of Europe will give you a (somewhat) free education.
Scandinavia, probably germany, spain many others (dont have details on many, so not authoritative, but still ...) (depends).

But what he meant, I think, is that free=/=free.
Click to expand...

And you too LOL There isn't a single member I agree or disagree with 100%.

Citizens from other EU countries have more "rights" within the EU than from those from outside the EU. Citizens from the Nordic countries have even more "rights" when studying in other Nordic countries.

As you also point out (not quite as I'm about to write it) Germans have very little time for sloth and incompetence.

One thing though. If the OP plans on finding a part time job to help his economics make sure you don't just have a "study permit". Germans are very "ordnung muss sein"

Again, VISIT BERLIN AS A TOURIST BEFORE BURNING YOUR BRIDGES.

Another thing. When I moved to Denmark all spoke English to me and that didn't help me learn Danish. Only after I insisted that they only spoke Danish to me did I pick it up fast. 9 months from I arrived and I was quite good at it. Find a German girlfriend that's bad at English, not one that's good at it :D
 
Does seem a bargain to USA costs.

How Much Does it Cost to Study in Germany? | Top Universities

QT: [And then I will move to Germany, possibly for the rest of my life....if you were moving to Germany with my limited skills? Is it possible to be a part time CNC operator?]

Some of the larger USA shops will pay for ones education. At least they did when I was working, am not exactly sure how many still do so. Some USA universities have jobs in machining skills

Computational Bioscience Program, School of Medicine at the University of Colorado Denver: Graduate Studies

Looks like the machine tool trade is the means to get the education in other interests. Would it be prudent to enter an associated field to your target vocation to head in that direction?

How long before you have your card in tool maker or the like.
 
michiganbuck said:
Does seem a bargain to USA costs.

How Much Does it Cost to Study in Germany? | Top Universities
Click to expand...

Education costs in probably all European countries are probably cheaper than education costs in the USA. Education, like health care, is expensive in the USA and the question is "Is it better than in Europe?" The reason, at least to me, is obvious. Many Americans object to paying tax and tax financed education costs are something that most Europeans are in favour of.

Study in Germany - StudyinEurope.eu
 
More to it than 'only' the costs of Education.

Europeans and North Americans enjoy much the same levels of modernity, quality of life, other yardstick/meter stick and associated buzz-phrases.

But they do not spend their income in the same percentages by claims upon it.

Taxes, even if the populace on-average gets more BACK from them, and with less wasted, are generally higher in the EU than US or even Canada. VAT alone can put an American on the verge of shock.

Don't 'just' go as a tourist.

Do the research and see if you cannot try to live for a week or three as a 'local' of modest means would live.

The lifestyle difference may be harder to take than the language.

Bill
 
Autodiattack! said:
@Tomato coupe
Does that apply to medical schools as well? The plan is to go for a "Bulky" computer science degree, meaning that it includes pre-med requisites as well as providing an option for entry level software engineering. Then go on to med school. My field of interest is interdisciplinary, and 8 years is just the minimum. It is unlikely I will make the first degree in 4, all things considered. But I've not been in school since I began work life, so my projections are suspect. With that said I'm looking up grad programs right now . . .. but compared to the european alternative this avenue still seems bleak.

I really would like to know more about my prospects in Germany . . ..
Click to expand...

Are you planning to do an MD/PhD program? If you are, then you have concluded correctly that it probably won't be possible to do it in the U.S. without incurring huge debts.
 
I'm curious how old you are, and why your high school results were poor. Were you bored, undisciplined, distracted by home life issues? And you seem to be fairly new to machining, which if you intend on it being a support for you in Germany may be optimistic. And the interest in Computational Neuroscience - is it a deep fascination for which you're willing to expend enormous reserves of time to learn, or something inculcated by science fiction or movies?

This is not to dissuade you, but another possibility is to latch on to the new options available to you such as EdX (edX | Free online courses from the world's best universities). In your field of interest you might find this course of use:
Neuronal Dynamics - Computational Neuroscience of Single Neurons | edX or maybe others. You'll doubtless need foundational courses, you should be able to get a counselor to help with preparation and any remedial courses that you should have gotten in HS.

You're lucky enough to have the most extraordinary educational tool ever created at hand - the Internet. Do some more research in harnessing it towards your interests. No need to go to Germany or elsewhere unless you really feel that's your only way forward. And if you truly feel that, it might speak to a little personal myopia - something to think about...
 
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