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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by johansen View Post
    the financial system which leaves you to the mercy of those skilled in the art of usury.
    And now most "retirement" is held in 401k plans. So it is largely invested in some way by the SOB's that make it a mission to live off us like parasites. So they invest in commodities. They drive the price up and give us a tiny % of the profit. We think we are doing great. But the commodities are what we buy every day. So we may get 5% return on out "investment" but we pay 20% more for everything so the net gain is a substantial loss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
    WTF is the national dept?
    Gummint Employees and Banksters who f***k about with the manipulation of huge numbers.

    You didn't really think it was ever going to be repaid, as if it were some sort of DEBT, did you?

    Get real!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toolroomguy View Post
    I am dyslexic , I need to say the word I will type , to know if I should type b or p, so this slipped right past me.
    Meah.. dyslexic can sometimes be trained-up to become ambidextrous.

    Then you can mess with some other poor Pilgrim's mind from two directions simultaneously.

    .ƨυovɘiʜɔƨim ϱnilɘɘʇ ɘɿɒ υoγ ʇi ɘϱɒmi-ɿoɿɿim ni mɘʜɈ ʇo ɘnO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
    WTF is the national dept?
    Good damn question.

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    look at the trends.. in our lifetime Reagan made the biggest gain as a percentage, if he did not start foocking with tax cuts and trickle down crap we would be debt free, albeit a much smaller economy.

    dee
    ;-D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    I suppose there is no harm in viewing these trends in real time instead of the out of context distortion by talking points designed to undermine each administrations actions.

    I am a simpleton-
    I believe the government has a valid role as a lender of last resort which uses this capacity to blunt the worse tendencies of downturns.
    I take this as the preferred action to ‘austerity’ which I would judge unnecessarily protracted the recession in Europe in comparison to the support the US rapidly put in place.
    That delaying action in Europe in turn I would judge slowed global growth as we recovered from the downturn.
    This included the oft assigned ‘Obama recovery’ which was slower than the pundits would have preferred and miss represented as a failure of the administration.

    The other measure I take to be part of rational administration of revenue in a nation is to build reserves during times of relative prosperity.
    These reserves can be used for structural investment in the nation which can be judged to augment growth as well as remaining as a buffer for those times when once again drawdowns are required from the national coffers for emergency expenditures and simple maintenance of market strength during downturns.

    What is happening now will define our national prospects a decade from now.
    I don’t think we should wait for talking point distortions.
    We can attempt to judge now how our actions are designed to face those outcomes.


    The U.S. government is set to borrow nearly $1 trillion this year, an 84 percent jump from last year - The Washington Post
    Obama did the very best with what he inherited and Bernanke was a good expert to keep things from unraveling. With such volatility there are few good choices and those kinds of things cause grey hair for Presidents. Great article by the way. I’am very cautious about the news today my comment is not directed to your link I want you to know.

    Doing as Obama had to do which Congress owned and passed The President made sure to stop the bleeding giving needed attention to private industry. Some people with special interest imho choose to forget such industry including the insurance and banking sectors. All the years generating prosperity is appreciated our Manufacturing helped win wars and create that tremendous prosperity.

    We can not be prosperous and the world’s greatest super power unless we take care of our infrastructure both domestically and militarily. Globalism is great for fair free trade yet that should not mean we should have let General Motors fail. Nor would it mean we allow strategic private contractors in the defense industry to fail. When trading with China the Cost of doing this should not be giving away the whole plans or critical tech.

    That should be against the law for non military contractors to do either because such knowledge put together teaches them how we get to military superiority it can transition. Heck let them pay for their own R&D! Globalists a lot of them do not remember history class. Your trading partner may be your worst enemy tomorrow and even start a war especially if you manage to strangle their trade, these sanctions could be very dangerous imagine Russians millions perhaps starving and freezing.

    Wars are more expensive compared to borrowing during peacetime. We also do not want to in any way cut off trade to any country as they must survive unless we have no choice. We did hurt Japan in that with trade before WW2.

    I think with repatriated money along with less tax to pay that the increase in capital investment expansion will deliver more taxes overall and we will see it in time or we will change back to more taxation. With govt. bonds to fund projects they are backed by the govt. I think,I know Treasury bills are.

    We do not invest in ourselves ! It would be great to see TBills pushed and sold Much more maybe taken out of our checks and put in with our checks. If we do enough of that with even companies doing it we are lending to ourselves getting paid back with interest! I would see nothing wrong with citizens who buy TBills to have some benefits to doing so,perhaps being able to stipulate it go to Medicare or to not fund abortions, the draws to buy them could be very creative. Let’s lend the trillion ourselves and get paid back more interest than they currently pay. Also examine how much say and leverage we would have being a Taxpayer and T Bill investor. Maybe we can get new and repaired infrastructure which will payoff big time and providing good jobs!

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    ^ Just what are you smoking, the enemy does not lay offshore, the problems inside your own government at the top right there at the heart of your country.

    Cutting off trade just means the go else were, theres nothing the USA makes that can not be sourced else were globally.

    Building infrastructure achives little, it does not nor ever has make you money, it just makes it easier to control a given area, even the romans new that, they built roads to trade and to get high speed access for there armies to keep the territories they captured. Building roads does not make money, world trade makes you money.

    But there’s no use making more money if thats not gaining you more buying power.

    Military might, yeah right, smoke that one, just what has it achieved for you? When was the last time your country went to war and came away the winners? My little rock did it in the Falklands, we went there kicked ass and freed our people, all your wars for the last century have just caused immense suffering killed vast numbers of locals and injured - killed even more of your own to what net gain? What is it that you have fought since WW2 and actually not lost - had your asses kicked for no other reason than you can't get the locals to agree with you?

    Please stop smoking the propaganda bullshit, step back and take a clear look at what your presented with. Pretend your a outsider looking in and just ask your self how great it really is? Ask yourself what it would really take to make it better, IMHO its not the usual bullshit the media and governments portray. That shit, thoes lies and the heavy taxation just spirals into civil unrest in time.

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    Google "Bush accounting gimmicks changed by Obama" and adjust your deficit numbers appropriately.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

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    A shocking lack of understanding of basic economic principles, as well as a sad display of partisan talking points. Our education system has been flushed down the sewy hole. Regards, Clark

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    Ya'll worry about nothin'. The USA has the Federal Reserve. Money is based on numbers in a computer with nothing to back it up but the lives of your children who will be sent to war. We can have endless debt forever. Any one or any state, country that disagrees will be squashed like a bug. Put your head down and get back to work, you've bills to pay.

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    Yeah, let's try that trickle down thing again. It always works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    ^ Just what are you smoking, the enemy does not lay offshore, the problems inside your own government at the top right there at the heart of your country.

    Cutting off trade just means the go else were, theres nothing the USA makes that can not be sourced else were globally.

    Building infrastructure achives little, it does not nor ever has make you money, it just makes it easier to control a given area, even the romans new that, they built roads to trade and to get high speed access for there armies to keep the territories they captured. Building roads does not make money, world trade makes you money.

    But there’s no use making more money if thats not gaining you more buying power.

    Military might, yeah right, smoke that one, just what has it achieved for you? When was the last time your country went to war and came away the winners? My little rock did it in the Falklands, we went there kicked ass and freed our people, all your wars for the last century have just caused immense suffering killed vast numbers of locals and injured - killed even more of your own to what net gain? What is it that you have fought since WW2 and actually not lost - had your asses kicked for no other reason than you can't get the locals to agree with you?

    Please stop smoking the propaganda bullshit, step back and take a clear look at what your presented with. Pretend your a outsider looking in and just ask your self how great it really is? Ask yourself what it would really take to make it better, IMHO its not the usual bullshit the media and governments portray. That shit, thoes lies and the heavy taxation just spirals into civil unrest in time.
    I did not mean to imply I thought it good to cut off trade with the world. I personally believe many countries have proprietary innovations which are not made in different countries because they are secret. Example in the Iraq war there was a very crack Tank division and commander. We were watching him close because the consensus was he could do a lot of damage. We sent in first our Apache helicopter tank killers and they got shot up pretty bad. Oh and you Brits were nowhere near them but way down South! Anyway we used a spinning contraption which spun off many explosive projectiles and completely disabled their value. Only the dang scientists / inventors knew how that spinning multiple armor piercing bombs could find a target but they did. We did not give the plans nor manufacturing details to anyone- American made. Your own country has things no one makes but you.

    Building infrastructure does make money for America only one example the Interstate highway system along with bridges over rivers that quicken the transfer of British made goods like your fine Rolls Royce! It would be bad if ten of them fell into a river because we decided infrastructure does not make us money and let the bridge fall down. If you and I were on that bridge your opinion may change if you survive the fall.

    Reading Julius Casear’s books concerning holding France and as much of England as he could he made money on infrastructure even if he provided clean water to a occupied territory. The natives like it and they were less inclined to make even more trouble than they did time after time. Roads ensured good trade. Roads - infrastructure made possible rapid deployment of the Army when the French would rebel or the Germans came a plundering. That was part of my point free peaceful trade is possible only with a strong military lest someone ask “why don’t we just take what we want and make the survivors our slaves or soldiers”. I wish England were more like her glory days yet being our friends not our enemies. One Aircraft Carrier - Putin must think you are all Marxists because you do not challenge him enough you don’t even believe in infrastructure. I know that is a lie because you do at least fix your fleet of one aircraft carrier.

    Buying power I agree completely and I am sorry if I am a bit jackass here but my Uncle spent a lot of time in England and France if you get my gist. He liked both the French and English people.

    We did did not lose a empire like you did and Iraq is as good as it can be and it is not our intent to empire build like you guys did for centuries. I guess with us you taxed us poor and your military did not save you from us whipping your asses twice. That is pointed language really childish which I said to mirror what you said about us. I do not think that way about England yet I wish y’all would build up your military if you are able to control them from harming yourselves.

    We are not falling apart over here it is like a soap opera I grant you. You as a valued friend and ally are close to us you deserve better friends in us. My Uncle if he were alive and needed again would have done it again and he volunteered like my father also who island hopped all the way to Tinian and Saipan with the USAAC. Next war in Europe maybe with all the appreciation we get from so called friends we may just take our sweet time in coming. You do not disrespect me and my country by what you said because I have confidence in my country and pride we did things as the people wanted and that is fair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    I always thought Clinton got lucky and served during a very high period of GDP growth and therefore was better positioned to meet expenditures.
    Obama- dramatically not so lucky- collapse in revenue and dire need to extend into stimulus.

    I don't mind being corrected- like I say, I am a bit a simpleton on economics..
    Clinton had a couple things going for him. Reagan increased social security taxes in 1983 to front-load the "trust fund" for the baby boomers. This gave Clinton a ~$150 Billion annual surplus from payroll taxes. The dot com boom provided a windfall in cap gains revenues of about $400 Billion a year. That dried up in 2001 with the dot com bust.

    Even so, the Clinton balanced budget is a fiction. If you go the the Treasury website, you will see that the US national debt never decreased under Clinton. The balanced budget was a function of trust fund accounting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Clinton had a couple things going for him. Reagan increased social security taxes in 1983 to front-load the "trust fund" for the baby boomers. This gave Clinton a ~$150 Billion annual surplus from payroll taxes. The dot com boom provided a windfall in cap gains revenues of about $400 Billion a year. That dried up in 2001 with the dot com bust.

    Even so, the Clinton balanced budget is a fiction. If you go the the Treasury website, you will see that the US national debt never decreased under Clinton. The balanced budget was a function of trust fund accounting.
    As a percent of GDP it did decrease.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    We sent in first our Apache helicopter tank killers and they got shot up pretty bad. Oh and you Brits were nowhere near them but way down South! Anyway we used a spinning contraption which spun off many explosive projectiles and completely disabled their value. Only the dang scientists / inventors knew how that spinning multiple armor piercing bombs could find a target but they did. We did not give the plans nor manufacturing details to anyone- American made. Your own country has things no one makes but you.
    Yeah you may not have shared that info, but you do realise there’s whole factories in china using similar technologies, camera - object recognition making drones right? the multi axis gyro, inertial navigation and such sensors are all originally spun off military tech. Currently they put them in nice plastic shells add some live video streaming and kids race em.

    You seriously need to grasp that whilst a large intercontinental ICBM may have a few war heads, modern warfare is not going to be fought that way, its going to be cheap low cost on mass weaponry. You may be able to shoot down one or maybe a few hundred incoming weapons, now try and stop a swarm of a couple of million truly autonomous ones. The worlds moving on, the threats are changing, you either lead or fall behind.

    Again infrastructure only makes money for you if you have product to transport over it, in this century the real money is argubly from digital based things, no solid lorry loads of corn.

    As to iraq, IMHO and based on non American news streams the place is in a far worse way now than ever before, what do you think really let get isis get a strangle hold like they did?

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    Trump passed his one tax bill and it took wallstreet almost exactly one month to see how it will wreck the USA. Then the market has started to fall when they realized that making stuff for sale is not going to work if Americans can not afford to buy it. Who need health care? decrease the surplus population and be quick about it.
    Bil lD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    Trump passed his one tax bill and it took wallstreet almost exactly one month to see how it will wreck the USA. Then the market has started to fall when they realized that making stuff (in china) for sale (in the us) is not going to work if Americans can not afford to buy it.
    Bil lD
    Fixed it for you

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  26. #38
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    The market did not know how to price in Trump- it did as it does sometimes and erred on the side of enthusiasm.
    Price went parabolic when it broke topside early October from a already very strong bull trend.
    Price had to falter- it was just a question of how high momentum was going to carry it before it did.

    Dow traded precisely off of the extended line of trend finding support on the top line.
    We are too early for a major economic correction so I would venture the pundits are correct- this is just a breather for the indexes, not the start of a major bear market..
    The open question is how the market behaves now that the top has been trimmed off a bit.
    The 'million dollar' question..

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  28. #39
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    The market is based on confidence, an extremely subjective, variable and fickle emotion.

    No surprise that market indexes act hormonally.

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    "The market got it wrong, they sold off good news"

    Jesus- don't take trading advice from THIS guy.... lol.


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