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    Default OT? Health care for all.

    I'd thought about putting this as a post in another one of those threads where health care gets "discussed".
    I'll write what I think and it'd be nice if that left me out of things as far as health care went.

    The problem the USA has, as opposed to as good as all other countries, is that health care for all is a political issue. Unless health care for all gets removed from politics it'll never happen in the USA.

    The job of any government is only to assure funding and not administration.

    That's why I keep writing that you (Americans) should look at how other countries do health care.
    I'll be more than interested if a single country can be found where government runs health care.

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    do we nwed it? Yes.
    Would it save money? Yes
    Will it happen soon? Doubt it.

    Until people realize that it is in their own best interest for everyone to have basic care regardless of whether they are a couch sitting ball scratcher or not because even that ball scratcher occasionally makes his way to the convenience store to stock up on beer,smokes,and chips and touching the doors,fingering and sneezing on the donuts in the case and using the facilities,it just might be worth it to have that guy vaccinated/and/or treated for his herpes/gonnorhea/sinus infection et al...even prudent given the ever increasing resistant stains of shit going around and new shit popping up.

    It amazes me people can be so ignorant...Screw the ideology.

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    I'll be more than interested if a single country can be found where government runs health care.

    Jeremy Hunt,Secretary of State for Health,England.

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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    I'll be more than interested if a single country can be found where government runs health care.

    Jeremy Hunt,Secretary of State for Health,England.
    Runs or funds? Is he political?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Runs or funds? Is he political?
    He is the Secretary of State for Health for England. He is a cabinet minister and he runs the NHS for England.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    ...

    The problem the USA has, as opposed to as good as all other countries, is that health care for all is a political issue. Unless health care for all gets removed from politics it'll never happen in the USA....

    The job of any government is only to assure funding and not administration.
    You've captured a difference in attitude between the US and the civilized world.

    Health care is not regarded as a right in the US and it is not widely accepted that the government has or should have a role in health care, let alone fund it.

    And health insurance for all (as we all know, much different than health care for all) is widely regarded as a handout to the undeserving poor, who should be shoved down the nearest stairway to Hell so we can spend the money on the military instead. To keep us safe, of course.

    oi vey.

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    Gordon, this will be another of your s**t stirring threads, I'm sure, but as an American, here is my 2 cents.

    Health care is a life cost, not a right. It is not the responsibility of a government to provide universal healthcare. I pay a great deal for my healthcare. It is expensive everywhere, but I choose to do this. Healthcare is a matter of priority assessment by the individual and how he spends his money. I do not wish to pay for my neighbor's healthcare because he chose to buy a new car, as opposed to adequate healthcare. That's not to say that charity and compassion for others doesn't have its place, it does. In addition to that, universal healthcare is terribly inefficient because its management and oversight absorbs more cost than the actual healthcare it is supposed to provide, making the already expensive healthcare even more unaffordable. The oversight and program management can never be adequate because the enforced rule set must always be general and never to each individual case. This will always result in rationing for all kinds of reasons. Whereas market forces are self-leveling and come at zero overhead. The same applies to insurance as well. Government intervention always causes imbalances and market distortions detrimental to the overall situation. I for one, am sick and tired of the prevailing PC culture that absolves individuals from personal responsibility.

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    [QUOTE=Gordon B. Clarke;
    That's why I keep writing that you (Americans) should look at how other countries do health care.
    I'll be more than interested if a single country can be found where government runs health care.[/QUOTE]

    Scotland ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    Gordon, this will be another of your s**t stirring threads, I'm sure, but as an American, here is my 2 cents.

    Health care is a life cost, not a right. It is not the responsibility of a government to provide universal healthcare. I pay a great deal for my healthcare. It is expensive everywhere, but I choose to do this. Healthcare is a matter of priority assessment by the individual and how he spends his money. I do not wish to pay for my neighbor's healthcare because he chose to buy a new car, as opposed to adequate healthcare. That's not to say that charity and compassion for others doesn't have its place, it does. In addition to that, universal healthcare is terribly inefficient because its management and oversight absorbs more cost than the actual healthcare it is supposed to provide, making the already expensive healthcare even more unaffordable. The oversight and program management can never be adequate because the enforced rule set must always be general and never to each individual case. This will always result in rationing for all kinds of reasons. Whereas market forces are self-leveling and come at zero overhead. The same applies to insurance as well. Government intervention always causes imbalances and market distortions detrimental to the overall situation. I for one, am sick and tired of the prevailing PC culture that absolves individuals from personal responsibility.
    Based on this i have to assume that you work for the health care industry, most likely insurance, pharma, or a personal benefit management company. Or at least own plenty of stock in them.

    dee
    ;-D

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    Gordon, this will be another of your s**t stirring threads, I'm sure, but as an American, here is my 2 cents.
    Might be if you supply the s**t.

    To avoid that I won't comment the rest of your post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    Scotland ..
    The best reply I can give is "bollox".

    Healthcare in Scotland - Wikipedia

    From the above link:
    The National Health Service (NHS) in Scotland was created by the National Health Service (Scotland) Act 1947 in 1948 at the same time the NHS was created for England and Wales. Scotland's NHS remains a separate body from the other public health systems in the UK which can lead to confusion from patients when "cross-border" or emergency care is involved.
    Primary and secondary care are integrated in Scotland. Unlike in England, NHS trusts do not exist in Scotland. Instead, healthcare is provided through fourteen regional health boards. These health boards are further subdivided into Health and Social Care Partnerships.
    Scotland spent over £12 billion on healthcare in 2015/16 which accounted for 40% of the Scottish Government's total budget.[8] The NHSScotland consists of approximately 161,000 employees. 9.2% of whom are medical or dental doctors, 42.9% nurses and midwives, 18.2% administrative services, 3.9% healthcare scientists, and the remaining 25.8% in various other medical services.[9] In the past several years, healthcare costs have been rising in Scotland. Despite this, Scots have a generally favorable view of their NHS service with 61% of the population either very or quite satisfied with the service. This is in contrast to a diminishing view in England of their NHS system.[10]
    Healthcare policy and funding is the responsibility of the Scottish Government's Health Directorates. The current Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport is Shona Robison. The Director-General (DG) of Health and Social Care, Chief Executive of NHS Scotland is Paul Gray.[11]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    The best reply I can give is "bollox".

    Healthcare in Scotland - Wikipedia

    From the above link:
    The National Health Service (NHS) in Scotland was created by the National Health Service (Scotland) Act 1947 in 1948 at the same time the NHS was created for England and Wales. Scotland's NHS remains a separate body from the other public health systems in the UK which can lead to confusion from patients when "cross-border" or emergency care is involved.
    Primary and secondary care are integrated in Scotland. Unlike in England, NHS trusts do not exist in Scotland. Instead, healthcare is provided through fourteen regional health boards. These health boards are further subdivided into Health and Social Care Partnerships.
    Scotland spent ovr £12 billion on healthcare in 2015/16 which accounted for 40% of the Scottish Government's total budget.[8] The NHSScotland consists of approximately 161,000 employees. 9.2% of whom are medical or dental doctors, 42.9% nurses and midwives, 18.2% administrative services, 3.9% healthcare scientists, and the remaining 25.8% in various other medical services.[9] In the past several years, healthcare costs have been rising in Scotland. Despite this, Scots have a generally favorable view of their NHS service with 61% of the population either very or quite satisfied with the service. This is in contrast to a diminishing view in England of their NHS system.[10]
    Healthcare policy and funding is the responsibility of the Scottish Government's Health Directorates. The current Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport is Shona Robison. The Director-General (DG) of Health and Social Care, Chief Executive of NHS Scotland is Paul Gray.[11]
    Read the last paragraph of your post healthçare ...Is the responsibility of the Scottish Health Directorates. The current Cabinet secretary is Shown Robinson. Is that not saying Government run? Sure sounds like it to me. Just as an aside, I am a big boy now and I can spell bollocks correctly.
    Now as an addition to your post 1, Wales.

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    In the US, profit is far more important than a fair and equitable health care system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bucktruck View Post
    In the US, profit is far more important than a fair and equitable health care system.
    If a market based system is to function, fair profit is essential. Further, do not define fair and equitable as free or discounted healthcare for some at the cost of others, because it is exactly opposite. If you want quality healthcare, go buy it yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    I think you are trying to explain that to those who think ANY market based system is fundamentally flawed.
    Free market is very well and cool if the costumer has a fair choice. The argument is that health care is not a market where the customer has a fair or even an educated choice. What the free market advocates fail to realize that they are sort of trying to send the local share cropper for intercontinental passenger plane shopping, and all the plane sales reps were previously fired from the used car sales force for being dishonest. Other than that no problems.

    dee
    ;-D

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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    Read the last paragraph of your post healthçare ...Is the responsibility of the Scottish Health Directorates. The current Cabinet secretary is Shown Robinson. Is that not saying Government run? Sure sounds like it to me. Just as an aside, I am a big boy now and I can spell bollocks correctly.
    Now as an addition to your post 1, Wales.
    Google "bollox".

    Big boy or not but maybe you don't know what is meant by "government run"? The Scottish NHS doesn't change just because government does. Wales? If you believe than then you could just as well have written "England".

    Try and forget I started this thread and write something of benefit to others rather than trying to bother me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    If a market based system is to function, fair profit is essential. Further, do not define fair and equitable as free or discounted healthcare for some at the cost of others, because it is exactly opposite. If you want quality healthcare, go buy it yourself.
    If that was true wouldn't the USA have by far the best health care in the world?

    Not all buy very expensive cars. Geez, I wonder why not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    If a market based system is to function, fair profit is essential. Further, do not define fair and equitable as free or discounted healthcare for some at the cost of others, because it is exactly opposite. If you want quality healthcare, go buy it yourself.
    Precisely my point. I don't think health care should be profit driven, especially with insurance companies involved. The primary objective of an insurance company is to deny as many claims as possible, thus increasing its profits.

    I am one who believes that health care should be a right, and publicly funded by all. Call me a socialist if you like; I've been called far worse. My neighbor's cancer treatment should be overseen by a doctor and his staff, not the CFO of an insurance company.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I'd thought about putting this as a post in another one of those threads where health care gets "discussed".
    I'll write what I think and it'd be nice if that left me out of things as far as health care went.

    The problem the USA has, as opposed to as good as all other countries, is that health care for all is a political issue. Unless health care for all gets removed from politics it'll never happen in the USA.

    The job of any government is only to assure funding and not administration.

    That's why I keep writing that you (Americans) should look at how other countries do health care.
    I'll be more than interested if a single country can be found where government runs health care.
    Why are you so obsessed with socialising health care in this country? It seems to be all you are fixated on! I think you should see your psychiatrist, who will of course be paid for by Denmark's national health. It will I'm sure come with a visiting nurse to keep an eye on you and make sure you do no harm to yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Google "bollox".

    Big boy or not but maybe you don't know what is meant by "government run"? The Scottish NHS doesn't change just because government does. Wales? If you believe than then you could just as well have written "England".

    Try and forget I started this thread and write something of benefit to others rather than trying to bother me.
    I googled it and the very first word that appeared was bollocks,now what?When the Scottish government changes then a new Health Minister is appointed by the new Government to run the NHS.
    Why instead of Wales should I have written England? I offered England in my first post, Wales was my second offer.
    Offer 4, Northern Ireland.
    As to my bothering you you should read your original post where you said you would stand back and leave the replies to others, job done.

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