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  1. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    I think the current Republican proposal is fantastic except it doesn't go far enough. Really they should allow slavery again so that parents can sell their children, a kid's kidney or whatever to pay the bill. That's free enterprise, right?

    After all why should fuckwits like Scottl have to pick up the tab if they can force you to sell your kid's organs to fund your healthcare?

    Looking back on it one of my best decisions was to return to Australia to live out my life. Our system is far from perfect but it's way ahead of the USA's insanity.

    PDW
    Why stop at kidneys? I heard livers and hearts pay better.

    dee
    ;-D

  2. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    Why stop at kidneys? I heard livers and hearts pay better.

    dee
    ;-D
    That's good food

    Danny Bhoy - Breakfast - YouTube

  3. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    Why are you so obsessed with socialising health care in this country? It seems to be all you are fixated on! I think you should see your psychiatrist, who will of course be paid for by Denmark's national health. It will I'm sure come with a visiting nurse to keep an eye on you and make sure you do no harm to yourself.
    It's better to keep him fixed in front of a computer all day with his rants and raves. Otherwise he would have nothing else to do.

  4. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    It's better to keep him fixed in front of a computer all day with his rants and raves. Otherwise he would have nothing else to do.
    I'm enjoying myself but you don't seem to be doing so and still post. That's sick

  5. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Sorry to hear about your misfortune Paul. Hope things heal nicely.

    On the USA NHS front, Vermont was planning to implement single payer and dropped the idea after estimates of cost were deemed too high. Now California is planning to implement such a system. Vermont is a small state, California is a large one. If California can succeed a lot can be learned about how this could be done nationwide. I'm still skeptical because of so many factors unique to the U.S. but the states have always acted as laboratories for national programs and it will be interesting to see the results. If California can succeed it would certainly open possibilities.

    By success I mean funded by state taxes and fees without needing an infusion of cash from the feds or driving businesses and individuals out of the state. As I said, it will be interesting to see the results.
    I do understand that people are skeptical. I understand the folks on the right have concerns. I think they should be addressed. The thing is, healthcare is really a matter of life and death. It's much too important to become a shouting match between the right and left. We simply must get this right.

    I think it is time for Congress to stop playing politics and work together to create a truly great health care system that will assure superb care for all Americans far into the future. The only things that are essential are that every American citizen be covered cradle to grave, the quality of care must be excellent and that we get the very best out of every dollar we spend. That's a workable starting point.

    I'm glad to hear that you're looking at possible solutions. That's all its gonna take Scott - people of goodwill, considering every possible approach that might work, and working together to create something truly great that we can all feel good about.

    SquireOT? Health care for all.

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK

  6. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Sorry to hear about your misfortune Paul. Hope things heal nicely.

    On the USA NHS front, Vermont was planning to implement single payer and dropped the idea after estimates of cost were deemed too high. Now California is planning to implement such a system. Vermont is a small state, California is a large one. If California can succeed a lot can be learned about how this could be done nationwide. I'm still skeptical because of so many factors unique to the U.S. but the states have always acted as laboratories for national programs and it will be interesting to see the results. If California can succeed it would certainly open possibilities.

    By success I mean funded by state taxes and fees without needing an infusion of cash from the feds or driving businesses and individuals out of the state. As I said, it will be interesting to see the results.
    Must admit I was very surprised to read your post. I've written many times that I couldn't understand why one state didn't try some form of tax financed health care. Just think if CA succeeded as it is the richest state.

    Got a feeling though that the whole thing will turn political and politics, like insurance, should be avoided like the bubonic plague with health care.

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  8. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by gordon b. Clarke View Post
    just think if ca succeeded as it is the richest state.
    lolwut?????

  9. #388
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    Well California is the largest market in the US so has the best chance of pulling it off
    now if New York would jump in at the same time, big insurance would crap in their pants.

  10. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by 72bwhite View Post
    Well California is the largest market in the US so has the best chance of pulling it off
    now if New York would jump in at the same time, big insurance would crap in their pants.
    Large market has little to do with being rich.


    Quick googling:
    Bankrupt California City Seeks to Fix Politics and Finances - Bloomberg
    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/26/calif...ture-dims.html
    $1.9 billion error adds to California deficit projection
    California Dangerously Close To Bankruptcy; Politicians Unfazed - Conservative World Daily

  11. #390
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    Large market has everything to do with making a single payer plan work,
    as does large economy.
    there is a bunch of money here just not always well managed

  12. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by 72bwhite View Post
    bunch of money here just not always well managed
    That's the only point I'm making.

    A lottery winner that becomes an alcoholic is not rich for long.

  13. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonok View Post
    Just to put things in perspective, I'm a trauma surgeon.
    I take care of whomever comes through my door. Many, if not most of my patients are indigent, and frankly, I could care less. They are provided with the best care available anywhere in the world.

    Cost is not a consideration at this point, if it's what we need to do to save a patient, but it sure will be if the government ends up in charge.

    Seems pretty likely that an old guy with heart disease, lupus, a cancer history and end-stage liver disease would be on the short list for "the pill" that Obama said we should give to old people rather than treating their conditions.
    Citation please.
    Where did he say that.

  14. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by jNieman View Post
    lolwut?????
    Economy of California - Wikipedia

    Economy of the United States - Wikipedia

    Is the one really better than the other?

  15. #394
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  16. #395
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    Take the pill...
    Nope.
    My mother said there's a big difference between extending life and prolonging death...and she was a nurse.
    That's the comment.
    Please show me where Obama said you should just 'take a pill'.

  17. #396
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    California is actually doing pretty well these days; not only the country's largest but in the top three on a per capita basis: 216’s States with the Best & Worst Economies | WalletHub(R)

    Missouri is #30 on that list. The usual trash talk is between Texas and California and here again, we're doing OK: http://www.politifact.com/california...-faster-texas/

  18. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSquier View Post

    ... it is time for Congress to stop playing politics and work together to create a truly great health care system that will assure superb care for all Americans far into the future. The only things that are essential are that every American citizen be covered cradle to grave, the quality of care must be excellent and that we get the very best out of every dollar we spend. That's a workable starting point.
    While I agree, I don't see a way to keep politics out of the legislative process, which will be required to set the system up.

    And there are those, who have some power, who are not interested in a single payer system. The Freedom Caucus, for instance, who doesn't think the Fed should have anything to do with health care. And there are those who don't want to spend money on people with less than themselves.

    The Freedom Caucus is a minority and can be outvoted, but the selfish faction, both in Congress and the voting populace, is quite a bit larger and can't/shouldn't be ignored. Seems like the problem is how to convince them that singlepayer is in their self interest. Safe to say, appeals to altruism don't seem to be effective.

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  20. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilho View Post
    While I agree, I don't see a way to keep politics out of the legislative process, which will be required to set the system up.
    While that is very true it requires politicians that actually care about their voters other than just wanting votes from them.

    The only explanation I can think of why your politicians do nothing is that they are being paid not to do anything by some.

    Top 1 Ways the US is the Most Corrupt Country in the World | Informed Comment

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  22. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilho View Post
    While I agree, I don't see a way to keep politics out of the legislative process, which will be required to set the system up.

    And there are those, who have some power, who are not interested in a single payer system. The Freedom Caucus, for instance, who doesn't think the Fed should have anything to do with health care. And there are those who don't want to spend money on people with less than themselves.

    The Freedom Caucus is a minority and can be outvoted, but the selfish faction, both in Congress and the voting populace, is quite a bit larger and can't/shouldn't be ignored. Seems like the problem is how to convince them that singlepayer is in their self interest. Safe to say, appeals to altruism don't seem to be effective.
    You're certainly right. I think the way forward lies in our convincing the right who oppose single payer that they stand to benefit from its passage in no small way. Not in telling them time and again why they're wrong. Nobody is won over that way. Why not let them score a political victory too if we get good healthcare?

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    But what of the other guy? Does he "have a dog in this fight"? If I remember correctly not only his mother and father but also his brother emigrated to America years ago.
    Not sure if I'm "the other guy" or not

    It is true that my parents emigrated to the USA shortly after I emigrated to Denmark.

    The interesting thing is that my father emigrated to the USA to work in a hospital (Taylor Manor, MD) and ended up with his own department.

    My brother, 17 years old at the time, then had a decision to make. Stay in Scotland, travel to the USA or to Denmark. He lives 1 hour from where I do

    Old picture but this is him on his yacht so he seems to have made the right choice.

    ian.jpg


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