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OT An outsider's view of the Brexit vote

steve-l

Titanium
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Location
Geilenkirchen, Germany
As an outsider living in Europe, I have watched this referendum issue run its course from birth to the vote next week. I would like to offer some observations. UK's membership in the EU has been in existence for many years now and whatever benefits of this membership is, has had many years to surface. At face value, it is easy to see the obvious trade benefits that should exist, but for whatever reason, they have not. A visit to any shop or store on the continent in any country will validate this. There is a huge absence of goods made in the UK. Virtually none of the major UK brands of consumer goods exist on the continent. This is an observation anyone could make, but living here, I see everyday. The folks gaining most from the EU membership is the London financial industry and the Government bureaucracy. On the other hand, this membership costs in excess of 10 billion pounds in contribution and control of the laws and rules that govern the country. Now that the poles and general consensus appears to favor the exit vote (46% vs 39%), the current Government has gone into panic, their arguments against an exit quote all kinds of bull shit statistics that are clearly false. The Government is in fear mongering mode. Fortunately, the general population is seeing through this. I find this whole thing fascinating.
 
You might explain that "Brexit" stands for British Exit.
And take that shit down to Manufacturing - America and Europe. http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/manufacturing-in-america-and-europe/

They all ready have a thread about it that's been going on since 20th Feb, 16. Why are you polluting General with this?

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/manufacturing-in-america-and-europe/uk-eu-316509/

Now that the poles and general consensus appears to favor the exit vote (46% vs 39%)
Is that, the new kind of math, common core?
 
I'm not sure, but it might have something to do with Reverse Polish Notation. Why the Poles got engaged with the Brexit question is a mystery to me but public opinion polls being notoriously unreliable it must somehow make sense.
 
The poles got concerned as its the threat of our nukes that stops russia reclaiming them. You need to grasp, the european map on the eastern side is sorta more written in dry wipe marker than it is in something more permanent. They really can't rely on germany to support em and history has proven you can't even rely on the french army to fight even for em selves.

Now russia is more than capable of wipeing us of the map, don't get me wrong, but trust me, its would be messy for em!

Equally god only knows how much of the polish economy rides on the back of money earnt here in the uk. The poles i have worked with paint a pretty damn grim picture of things pre europe!
 
The poles got concerned as its the threat of our nukes that stops russia reclaiming them. You need to grasp, the european map on the eastern side is sorta more written in dry wipe marker than it is in something more permanent. They really can't rely on germany to support em and history has proven you can't even rely on the french army to fight even for em selves.

Now russia is more than capable of wipeing us of the map, don't get me wrong, but trust me, its would be messy for em!

Equally god only knows how much of the polish economy rides on the back of money earnt here in the uk. The poles i have worked with paint a pretty damn grim picture of things pre europe!

How stupid am I, I thought he meant the North poles against the South poles
 
I will use Mrs. Toolsteel V2.0's favorite saying (being from the heart of Dixie she has quite a few)......"Not my circus, not my monkeys". Best wishes with whatever they decide.
 
As far as I can tell, British exports to Europe are between 12 and 25 billion pounds a month.
Certainly not as much as they could be, but not nothing.
Major exports are not consumer brands- they are things like nuclear reactor parts, arms, vehicles, plastics, and chemicals.
So, no, you dont see them on the shelves in Paris.

stats here- but you would have to download the spreadsheet. Overseas Trade Statistics

But just looking at exports is only a small part of the picture.
Exports from the UK are low because of right wing government actions over the last 40 years to reduce support for industry in the UK, and to encourage real estate speculation, banking and finance, and other "City" businesses.

Somehow, BAE makes billions, but it chooses to have factories almost everywhere BUT the UK.
Lots of british companies make their products elsewhere, and keep their profits offshore.

The EU allows British workers to travel, own homes in Malaga, to work in Berlin or Milan, and to engage in all kinds of beneficial activities besides just export.

And, most importantly- if Brexit occurs, wine, beer, and spirits will all cost much more in the UK.
If the average punter realized that, I think the vote would be a landslide.
 
Now that the poles and general consensus appears to favor the exit vote (46% vs 39%)


Is that, the new kind of math, common core?

Not very intelligent are we? It's 46% against, 39% for, and the remainder (100%-46%-39% = 15% btw) are undecided or aren't going to vote. My 5 year old cat could have figured that out.
 
You might explain that "Brexit" stands for British Exit.
And take that shit down to Manufacturing - America and Europe. http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/manufacturing-in-america-and-europe/

They all ready have a thread about it that's been going on since 20th Feb, 16. Why are you polluting General with this?

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/manufacturing-in-america-and-europe/uk-eu-316509/


Is that, the new kind of math, common core?



:rolleyes5: someone's pissed on his Blundies and told him it's raining.
 
Not very intelligent are we? It's 46% against, 39% for, and the remainder (100%-46%-39% = 15% btw) are undecided or aren't going to vote. My 5 year old cat could have figured that out.

Huh? When the votes are counted then it's the majority that wins. It doesn't have to be over 50% of those that have a vote. You decide not to vote? OK but you let others make the decision.
 
Huh? When the votes are counted then it's the majority that wins. It doesn't have to be over 50% of those that have a vote. You decide not to vote? OK but you let others make the decision.

I think Machtool thought that the polling for%+against% =100%. (Machtool didn't consider the undecided, not going to vote, can't give a flying f***, what there's a vote? people)
 
And, most importantly- if Brexit occurs, wine, beer, and spirits will all cost much more in the UK.
If the average punter realized that, I think the vote would be a landslide.

Worth adding that aint true, a lot of beer is brewed here, they just can't ship it in fast enough :-) Have not got a statistic to prove it, but its a very very high percentage, even a lot of the eurpoean beers on the shelves here are still brewed here, think similar to how Coke do it except instead of diabetes you just get a hang over :-)

Equally on a typical supermarkets shelves here, probably less than half of all spirits and wines are from there. Bettwen my house hold and friends,i can't recall the last bottle of EU origin wine we drunk, most is very much Australian or chilli or some other location south of the equator in a hell of a lot of cases.

The homes in eu land, its not too common, most simply can't afford one here, let alone another else were. Even then, us brits have been buying land in the EU since well before the well EU!! Just like a lot of international people have property here.

Yes, UK and manufacturing is the past, but it still has some funny neiches. There seams to be ever more small buis opportunities here.
 
Worth adding that aint true, a lot of beer is brewed here, they just can't ship it in fast enough :-) Have not got a statistic to prove it, but its a very very high percentage, even a lot of the eurpoean beers on the shelves here are still brewed here, think similar to how Coke do it except instead of diabetes you just get a hang over :-)

Equally on a typical supermarkets shelves here, probably less than half of all spirits and wines are from there. Bettwen my house hold and friends,i can't recall the last bottle of EU origin wine we drunk, most is very much Australian or chilli or some other location south of the equator in a hell of a lot of cases.

The homes in eu land, its not too common, most simply can't afford one here, let alone another else were. Even then, us brits have been buying land in the EU since well before the well EU!! Just like a lot of international people have property here.

Yes, UK and manufacturing is the past, but it still has some funny neiches. There seams to be ever more small buis opportunities here.


you live there, I do not-
but I have sure heard a lot about Booze Cruises over the years- and I thought the reason why was because EU beer was much cheaper.

Booze cruise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I also was under the impression that hundreds of thousands of brits own houses in spain, italy, ireland and france. Probably millions.
 
you live there, I do not-
but I have sure heard a lot about Booze Cruises over the years- and I thought the reason why was because EU beer was much cheaper.

Booze cruise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I also was under the impression that hundreds of thousands of brits own houses in spain, italy, ireland and france. Probably millions.

Huh? I haven't a clue what EU beer is. Beer prices vary depending what EU country you're in. Some EU countries make much better beer than others. Beer "taste" too varies from country to country.

Beer Price Index | GoEuro

As to "millions" owning houses abroad then I'm curious as to where you heard that :eek:
 
I am wondering which major UK consumer goods I´m being denied of because UK is IN the EU? I assume you refer to goods being in demand and competitive? I think it´s likely they will be fewer after a brexit and if still around be more expensive since they will now be outside the inner market. Or maybe you wished we had an even stronger inner market so we could only have products from within EU?

On the beer, it is not likely it will be more expensive in UK after a brexit since english/uk beer exported from uk (very popular here) will be more expensive in EU, so it will not find it´s way out, while as Adama said a lot of "EU" beer is manufactured Inside the UK hence their market will be flooded of beer -> prices down -> bankrupt breweries -> people drinking more beer getting more drunk -> voting again to join the EU :)
 
Equally on a typical supermarkets shelves here, probably less than half of all spirits and wines are from there. Bettwen my house hold and friends,i can't recall the last bottle of EU origin wine we drunk, most is very much Australian or chilli or some other location south of the equator in a hell of a lot of cases.

We (my wife and I) drink 2 to 3 bottles of wine each week. Spanish and Italian are our two favourite EU countries for red wine and German white wine is good. Outside the EU then Australia, South Africa and Chile are our favourites.

How will a Brexit affect my life? I don't know but if it happens then I hope it will shake up the EU and stop all ideas of a United Europe. That's as improbable as a United America *** or a United Asia. Damned if I want corrupt south European politicians having a say in how we should run our country.

*** Maybe Trump can contract the US Mexican wall to the Chinese. They know how to build long and high walls ;)

Great Wall of China (Mutianyu Section) in HD - YouTube
 
My understanding on the beverage industry as a whole, liquids are bloody heavy to ship, its a lot easier for a typical german say beer company to simply brew the same stuff in multiple places. I know this is not just a UK thing, but the same across the whole of europe, beers just too expensive to transport vast distances.

Even a lot of the foriegn wines are brought in by the tanker or bladder sack container full and bottled here. Its just a basic logistical distribution stratergy and bulk fluid producer does.

Booze cruises use to be popular when i was younger, wine use to be pretty expensive back then. These days its a lot more common and hence in part is a lot lot cheaper. Tobaco wise my understanding is theres some pretty tight limits now too, hence not so much of a saving. Equally theres a pretty large and stable underground market for smuggled tobacco here too.
 
As an american living in Norway I find the whole thing in the UK rather perplexing. Looking at Norway which is non-EU but is so closely integrated, probably so than the UK is right now we get the negatives without most of the benefits. The EU is a mixed bag with plenty of problems but some real advantages. The modern European lifestyle, mobility and trade between countries just wouldn't happen without it.

Not being in the EU in Norway makes international trade a massive pain in the rear, with the bureaucratic (slow, expensive and inefficient) customs controls every package, all freight has to deal with tonnes of extra paperwork and fees in addition to a high VAT assessment. I have had packages from the EU returned multiple times before giving up and having them sent to a friend in Sweden. I payed an extra 20% in random fees on the last machine I imported from Germany (not to mention the 25% VAT) which is refundable for businesses). The availability and quality of food is generally much worse than Sweden never mind Germany or France which are a world apart in that area. Never mind alcohol prices and importation limits which would make most of you weep.

I think the UK isn't pro EU because they never actually integrated into it, they don't play the game and therefore don't understand or realize the benefits. The country has deep social and economic problems that are independent from the EU and leaving the EU will only further hinder trade and deepen the inequality and imbalance that is characterized by London vs the rest of the UK.

L
 
You stated the position perfectly. Now why can't some of us Brits understand it as well as you do?

Like they say on the National Lottery adverts:- "You've got to be in it to win it!"
 








 
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