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Thread: OT. The Quest for Cheap Stuff
01-28-2012, 12:12 PM #21
I don't want cheap, I want the best price on quality I can trust.
02-02-2012, 02:49 PM #22
Cheap is not always cheap
I was in the market for a mill, I could not find a reasonablr deal here locally, all the items in my size range new were made in CHINA, i dealt direct with a chinese distributor and made an excelloent deal on a mill, paid for it and a bunch of accessories, problem was the supplier short shipped it and did not send all the ordered accessories. It was a learning experience and I paid as much for the mill as I would have if bought locally. I am a hobby user, I have a nice Logan that I bought 1.5 yrs ago, have been trying to get time to finish refurbing but still have not finished and cannot use it. I wanted a working lathe, again local suppliers stuff mostly chinese +overpriced. I made a deal again from china and having learned from first experience this time bought direct from mfr in china shipped to my location + received an excellent lathe beautifully finished, actually nicer than the summitt toolroom lathe I paid over $6000.00 for 26 yrs ago. This lathe ie exceptionalfor the price I paid $4000.00 fo a nice 12x40 lathe, 10 inch rotary table, 200mm 3 jaw chuck set of quick change chucks, 10 inch tilting table, several set of v blocks plus another 3 or 4 accessories shipped to my door. All the pieces are quality items only the price was cheap. I bought directly from china and got better equip than the local suppliers sell at 1/2 the price. tom
02-06-2012, 07:50 PM #23
My company imports some product from china (I don't want to, I just have to meet a price point for certain things). Defects/product problems are extremely high compared to the much Better German product that I purchase alot more of.
What I find is the German stuff really isn't much more. That's because their factory is so efficient. Another reason is they engineer their stuff to use just enough material. Its like ,"the glass is not half empty or full, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be" sort of thing.
Chinese labor cost are rising people, I see it first hand in pricing. It's going to have an affect. It will likely move to another poor asian country. It's all a continuous circle.
The US needs to automate where it can automate. I know a couple companies Ive talked to that are bringing the price dependent things back. I know of a company that is mfging those shitty casters in the USA that you would find attached to computer chairs from walmart. If companies are more inclined to bring back things for not only price but for incentives like lead times and more control, we will all do better.
02-06-2012, 08:18 PM #24
It's gotten to the point I buy most everything used good condition high quality NA or Euro built. Stuff like Dake Johnson, Suburban tooling, Harig grinder, Kalamazzo, Baldor, +GF+ stuff etc.
Like Poter my workclothes and other is locally made 90% of the time.
Fits better lasts and feel good about wearing it.
Built a special marking machine for a customer last month and
local bearing supplier sold us some made in china Timken style
conical bearings. Called him up and told him never to sell me anything china again ! ( will exchange later ) Went to an other bearing house and picked up a true set of Timkens. I don't need my customer's highly loaded roll holder failing and causing everyone greif and lost time. I know that if anything ever does fail on the machine it can be sourced locally.
I also have peace of mind knowing most of our own equipment can be sourced locally as well and is robust and built to last.
02-06-2012, 11:35 PM #25
"Built a special marking machine for a customer last month and
local bearing supplier sold us some made in china Timken style
conical bearings. Called him up and told him never to sell me anything china again ! ( will exchange later ) Went to an other bearing house and picked up a true set of Timkens. "
I don't know if that is possible. 25 years ago, I had packages with bearings that said "Contains product made in one or more of the of the following countries."
China and most of the rest of the World were listed.
We have not bought bearings that we KNEW were made in the US since SKF shut its plant down in, where was it, Altoona or Johnstown, PA.?
NICE WAS Japanese made. Good bearings. NOW, you have NO idea where they are made.. Fafnir was good, I don't know if they still are, but I would ASSUME they are.
I do not KNOW, but I would ASSUME that Chinese bearings are made to spec.They actually ARE trying to make decent stuff, BUT, US importers want CHEAP, the highest profit THEY can make.
Others have said that if you want GOOD Chinese stuff, you gotta pay more.
If you want good USA stuff, you gotta pay more. Or else you get Chinese import with US name on it.
I have bought lots of stuff, on sale, at HF. 6" digital caliper, 10 bucks.
Now gimme a fucking break. My 10 buck tool does ALL that YOURS does, BUT, the batts don't last quite as long.
Mitutoyo, what, 200 bucks? Not 1/10 thou more accurate. I may be wrong, but I do not think there is ANY digital that is better than 1/2 thou. If I am post that, and in six weeks, China will have a clone.
Our problem is that we send everything over there to BE made, then bitch that they make the same thing, and sell it for half or less, AND, they make big profit.
They COULD buy an American made B&D drill and reverse engineer it, sell us the same thing cheaper. They don't have to. We give them all the specs, they make you 100 thou of them, then make 50 thou with a different color case, for half or less of the price. No development costs.
Tough world, ain't it?
02-07-2012, 12:21 AM #26
Last edited by <jbc>; 02-07-2012 at 01:27 AM. Reason: should read: being dissasembled for removal. That section of the tunnel is done.
02-07-2012, 07:03 AM #27
Timkens we installed were west euro made, I think sweden or something close. The china ones are Ringball.
As for linear ways is INA still made in USA ?
The packaging on the carriages says Made in USA.
Anyhow nice photo JBC, ça alors !
Are you liking or hating the Timkens ?
02-07-2012, 12:44 PM #28
How much of the problem is people wanting cheap stuff, or the fact that they don't make as much these days and have to make that dollar stretch farther? I would be willing to bet most people(at least here anyway) would like to get the quality stuff, but can't afford to due to the state of their economy.
02-07-2012, 02:16 PM #29
The US suppliers are a problem too. The initial air-system parts I bought for a product were bought direct from China by a contact over there - not bad. Since that time I have tried to buy US made parts, good luck.
For example, I use an air cylinder yoke. The original Chinese parts I had were well machined, smoothly finished and nicely plated. I bought what was advertised as the same part from a US company, the company admitted it was made in China and the dimensions were exactly the same as the item I was using so I am thinking it came from the same factory as the original parts I had. I did not mind paying a little more for these parts sourced in the US even though they were made in China. These parts were rubbish, rough as heck, plating blotched and thin.
I spoke to my Chinese contact and mentioned this situation, he laughed and said "Yes, American companies come over and think they are clever negotiating really cheap deals so we sell them what they pay for". It looks as though unless you have a rep. in country you had better make sure what you are getting for your cheap deal. I can still get the original type of yoke through my contact in China and I might just do this for the next batch.
02-07-2012, 02:45 PM #30
Its in contrast how much different it is working with the Japanese. With the Japanese alot of times its hard to get an answer from them on the spot. They're afraid of their boses and don't want to screw up so bad. They're very pleasant and friendly people genuinely.