OT - US Constitution, Article II, Section 4 - Page 49
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  1. #961
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    That's ridiculous.
    I was always taught that it's a circle, with far right and far left coming together at the bottom.
    I've seen a circular pattern often, but only in superficial explanations. Typically to just sum up the idea that politics/power /isn't/ linear. Left/Right is also an exclusively relative meaning. It's only used to relate one entity to another. What is "Left" depends on where you're standing. It's never a definition such as "this is a right-wing idea" unless you are in a very specific context. No one ever started a 'right wing' government. It's not a plan. It's just a way to point a finger or box people up nicely so you can agree/disagree love/hate them without knowing anything about them.

    As many Europeans will tell you - what they call Far Right would probably be pretty centric or even slightly Left for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JNieman View Post
    I've seen a circular pattern often, but only in superficial explanations. Typically to just sum up the idea that politics/power /isn't/ linear. Left/Right is also an exclusively relative meaning. It's only used to relate one entity to another. What is "Left" depends on where you're standing. It's never a definition such as "this is a right-wing idea" unless you are in a very specific context. No one ever started a 'right wing' government. It's not a plan. It's just a way to point a finger or box people up nicely so you can agree/disagree love/hate them without knowing anything about them.

    As many Europeans will tell you - what they call Far Right would probably be pretty centric or even slightly Left for us.
    The problem is the conflation of xenophobia, economics, and social issues.

    In this as in most current nations xenophobia and right wing economic theory fall in the same bucket usually, as well as religiously conservative morality.

    The collectivism of the third reich was not a product of the economic theory.
    It was a function of the authoritarians.
    Hitler was the Law and Order candidate.
    They needed someone to follow.

    What's missing from this conversation is a discussion of authoritarian policies in the context of xenophobia.

    Everyone here probably thinks that a broken leg should not consign you to dying in a ditch, and is willing to support programs to prevent that.

    Most people here recognize the rise of the oligarchy...even if we disagree on how to contain it.

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  4. #963
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Which is a symptom of big government. By giving excess power to government we get more cronyism rather than less. . . ..

    I'd say you're just partly right, Scottl.

    As a starting point, ask who buys/controls who? Do politicians bend large donors to their will? Or do the donors buy political favor? We might agree it's the latter. The root cause is unbridled self-interest of some large donors. Our military is in large part run by military contractors, our health care system by insurance, pharma, and medical conglomerates, our energy policy by energy incuments, and the like.

    So the part where I'd say you're right is that allowing politicians to create a poltical/legal/regulatory/tax/enforcement environment that favors the Shkrelis, Trumps, Kochs, Enrons, Halliburtons, Goldmans, BMS' etc. of the world is a problem.

    However, shrinking government to the level it can't do anything isn't the answer. Every system requires checks and balances to be stable. Otherwise, one powerful force swamps all the others. The answer isn't to destroy government, but to restore it to represent the best interests of its people. Personally, I'd like to see that interest centered in the middle and professional classes --- and for all our youth. The rich will do fine without special perks. The poor have a chance to do fine if there is a path to the middle class.

    The founding of this country came pretty much as a reaction to British crony capitalism; where the East India Trading Co. (of Boston Tea Party fame) and the Crown were acting in concert to screw America. Our founders did a generally exceptional job of assuring checks and balances between State and Federal govenments and also between executive, legislative, and judicial branches. They probably never suspected, though, that companies taking in 1/10 trillion a year would be buying political favor two centuries later. In any case, our own equivalents of the East India Trading Co. are now operating within the US -- and some sort of effective check and balance is required. Reforming government, not neutering it, is needed.

    We've already seen the studies where Congress enacts the laws their top donors want; not what the vast majority of their citizens want.

    Three simple steps in the right direction might include:
    - Get the hidden money out of politics. The "Citizens United" decision was a huge step in the wrong direction.
    - Have a balanced algorithm or an independent panel rather than self-serving politicians draw up political districts to avoid gerrymandering
    - Make it a crime, similar to the Canadian model, to just make up shit and call it the truth in politics.

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  6. #964
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNieman View Post
    ...serious educational environment...
    Taken very seriously indeed by its current practitioners, to be sure, but nonetheless a fatuous oxymoron right up there with "military justice." I'd offer "precision sheet metal" as another one but that might offend someone. Oh, wait, this isn't a metalworking forum so nobody will feel insulted.

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  10. #966
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    It starts getting fun when the cartoonists get in on the act:

    Capitol Ink | Trump Watergate Complex

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    - Make it a crime, similar to the Canadian model, to just make up shit and call it the truth in politics.
    That isn't a crime in the USA?

    Here it's cost more than one government it's life and removed a few ministers from government.

    Politics of Denmark - Wikipedia


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