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Patented Aussie belt grinder gets copied: how do I prevent my product being copied?.

SAG 180

Titanium
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Location
Cairns, Qld, Australia
Saw this Baleigh branded belt grinder on Ebay (1st pic), which at first I thought was this unit patented and made for around 10 years by Radius master (2nd pic):
So the first unit is a lot cheaper and is made in China for Baleigh and is obviously a dead nuts copy of the Radius Master. Is there any way of stopping someone from making
a copy of your product or is patent law pretty much useless these days to protect your product?.

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RM48-belt-grinder-709-280w.jpg
 
Wow, they didn't even try to hide it.... Didn't even change the guard hinge!
I have seen some patent protection work here in the states... But not sure how much good it will do with a Chinese company. They are professionals at copying everything. Look up the fake apple store.
 
Baleigh is a USA company as far as I know, they also have set up an Australian website and phone number to sell their product here but don't seem to realise that the mains power is 240V not 110V.
 
patent law

Saw this Baleigh branded belt grinder on Ebay (1st pic), which at first I thought was this unit patented and made for around 10 years by Radius master (2nd pic):
So the first unit is a lot cheaper and is made in China for Baleigh and is obviously a dead nuts copy of the Radius Master. Is there any way of stopping someone from making
a copy of your product or is patent law pretty much useless these days to protect your product?.

0000326155.jpg
RM48-belt-grinder-709-280w.jpg
.
patent laws are different in different countries
.
patents are only good for so many years. In USA a patent is good for 14 year I believe. After that anybody has the right to use it. That is what patent laws are for to encourage others to use the ideals and technology AFTER the patent is expired.
.
if not patented in other countries an Australian patent is only good for Australian market.
.
If an item is not patented and somebody else patents it first then the original company can easily be forced to stop making a product they designed first. Thus to not patent something is normally not a good ideal.
 
Patents are only as good as your ability to fight infringers. They cost like about 2 million to prosecute. So the invention needs to be valuable to defend it. Then it can usually be worked around. And usually what you get is them to change it a little to not infringe on the patent.

The biggest deterrent is a cease and desist order. After that it costs a lot of money. With being from China or manufactured from China, they could have been contracted to make it - then the companies distributing it is responsible.

Patents are very hard for small inventors. It helps but the best way to keep things on your side is to keep making a moving target with constant improvements every couple years. Stagnant successful designs will be copied, no doubt about it. Patent, improve designs to show value for your self, and cease and desist old designs that they can't get much money from - is a winning strategy.
 
Patent law most definitely isn't useless, but you have to file distinct patents in each target country. So for an American product to be patent protected in Australia, you'd have to file a separate patent there. For the Radius Master to be covered in the US, another patent would have to be filed here.

When I file patents through work, there's a filtering process for foreign filing. If the patent is important enough for foreign filing, you get a second page of documentation to file with WIPO (the World Patent Office in Geneva, Switzerland), which helps you file copies of your patent in other countries. There are checkboxes for each of the major industrial marketplaces (UK, Germany, Japan, Australia, ...), but each has to be filed separately. No one bothers to file in China, because culturally, they won't enforce the patent anyway.

In the case of the Radius Master though, two things are in effect. The Chinese could care less if you have a patent, and you can't sue a Chinese company for patent infringement. But in this case an American company is putting their brand name on it, and you can sue them. They wouldn't expose themselves to that risk if the patent hadn't expired.

As an aside, there was an article on 60 Minutes several years ago about the risks of having components manufactured in China. They followed a new TaylorMade golf club as it was sent to China for mass production. Within hours, one of the workers was taking a prototype head to a relative's shop to make a clone.
 
I make a product and have had numerous people copy the design, but they have to actually get it to market and keep it there which takes lots of work. I change my design constantly and I keep the price down so it discourages copying. I sell direct to the customer so there is no additional layer of markup that makes my product look over priced. Anyone can make what I make but making it for the kind of money I sell it for now that is the challenge.
 
Baleigh is a USA company as far as I know, they also have set up an Australian website and phone number to sell their product here but don't seem to realise that the mains power is 240V not 110V.

I used one the other day at a mate's shop, definitely not 110 - I understand he had a sideline in selling them a little while back ~ 2/3 years ago, but I doubt it now. I'm almost certain our mates to the north make em, to our north eastern cousins specs!
 
Thanks for all the replies, I suppose I was a bit put out to see a copy as I use a friend's original brand device and really like it. On further reading of the Ebay ad they say the won't ship to Australia, so the patent/s may still be in effect. Radius Master say they have an improved Mk2 model now.

So if I can:

Patent for likely markets.
Sell direct and give good value. (A friend will only do this already for his products)
Innovate/change it often: same friend is also doing this.
Make as much of the parts in house for cost and reliable supply.

It should discourage copying for all but the most determined people.

BillE: The Australian Baleigh website just looked like an exact copy of the USA website including the 110V, except with a .au domain name. I assumed it was just there to try and undercut the local product.
 
Big companies will not copy it until it reaches a certain level of popularity. I am making a pair of pliers right now that has a patent on them the patent is owned by another person and I will pay a royalty. He used to make them and sell them through large jewelry tool catalogs. The largest jewelry tool company in the US copied them and he had to sue to stop them from doing it. He succesfully sued them. That company was doing lots of business with the foundry that he used and somehow his molds got damaged and were no longer usable. He went bankrupt. I am making them again but fabricating them and keeping the price 1/2 of what it used to be so there will be no competitors.
 
Big companies will not copy it until it reaches a certain level of popularity. I am making a pair of pliers right now that has a patent on them the patent is owned by another person and I will pay a royalty. He used to make them and sell them through large jewelry tool catalogs. The largest jewelry tool company in the US copied them and he had to sue to stop them from doing it. He succesfully sued them. That company was doing lots of business with the foundry that he used and somehow his molds got damaged and were no longer usable. He went bankrupt. I am making them again but fabricating them and keeping the price 1/2 of what it used to be so there will be no competitors.

Is the implication here that the larger company somehow got his molds damaged? Because if so, that sucks.

I guess that is the danger of not doing things in house, although a production foundry isn't easy to just whip up as I understand it.
 
Baleigh is a USA company as far as I know, they also have set up an Australian website and phone number to sell their product here but don't seem to realise that the mains power is 240V not 110V.

Basically a bunch of eager guys in a warehouse buying and relabelling chinese machines. Word is they get some stuff made in the USA but they love to label chinese machines as there own. Youll find they dont actually make anything themselves. Brilliant marketing tools
 
SAG 180, that's your friends patent ?

I my opinion, it's a bit broad reaching, like trying to patent the automobile as having (4) wheels.

Any good patent lawyer could probably snake his way right thru that one.

No, my friend owns a radius master and surprisingly was the inventor of the tracking mechanism they use, as well as a German belt grinder company, with my friend's permission. My friend was of the opinion it wasn't worth patenting at the time as it shows up all over the place including car front ends. My homemade belt 2" grinder uses an idler wheel with the same tracking adjustment. The friend makes another type of machine which is copied in the State but which was never patented.
 
Basically a bunch of eager guys in a warehouse buying and relabelling chinese machines. Word is they get some stuff made in the USA but they love to label chinese machines as there own. Youll find they dont actually make anything themselves. Brilliant marketing tools

Another tool seems to be pricing their copy below the OEM's tool which would hurt the OEM.
 
Yea bag'leez cold saws are "fung ho's" from china. Good luck getting tech support or spare parts with out a ordeal. Funny, even fung's semi original designs get ripped off just down the street from them.
 
Basically a bunch of eager guys in a warehouse buying and relabelling chinese machines. Word is they get some stuff made in the USA but they love to label chinese machines as there own. Youll find they dont actually make anything themselves. Brilliant marketing tools

All true. And their slugs who troll any and all metalwork related forums seem to have the habit of trying to create the impression that they're some big in-house manufacturer of American made goods.
 
I believe alot of tools could be made in the US but you cant have a traditional retail wholesale relationship. I sell my products my self. The numbers are more manageable. If I went the wholesale route I would have to sell twice as much to make the same money, but even 2 times as much wouldnt work because to make 2 times as much I would need more expensive equipment to meet the demand. I think that you will see many more manufacturers selling direct in the future.
 








 
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