CNC Machinists in high demand?

I came across this article on forbes.com about how there's a huge demand for people that know how to operate CNC machines. Here's the article: The One Skill That Will Land You A Job In Any Factory, Anywhere - Forbes

What do you all think? Are there other skills that are in higher demand than CNC machining? Just curious about people's opinions on this one.

hahaha... look who shows up in the comments on the article. I won't spoil it for you.

In demand but Employers are not willing to pay fairly.

I think the article should be corrected... There is a huge demand for CNC operators.... Who will work for $10/hr

As always with these articles, the same two points:

Supply and demand. Forbes of all magazines should be willing to point out that if companies can't find workers, well, then wages should go up.

Capable workers exist, and are plentiful in this economy. They might not have all the magic HR-ready acronyms and buzzwords on their resumes, they might require a week's worth of training to start as a CNC operator, but plenty of people are out there, ready, and willing to work. Like, OMG (as the kids say), companies might have to crosstrain people. What a novel thought.

Last night on national radio.. Skilled workers needed to run high-tech CNC machines | Marketplace from American Public Media

You can read or listen.... click on start arrow under Haas photo to listen.

Yep, Public Radio had a "Biggest threat to American Manufacturing" segment that addressed the lack of CNC operators.

If someone is wondering "why won't they pay more?", it may simply be that Social Security Disability pays 30% of the highest income years, so $80,000 translates into $24,000 on disability.

And I know the machinist that did it.

To avoid an employee translating a $90,000 job into a $27,000 vacation, don't pay $90,000.

Bush,

I think you are full of some kind of effluent. I THINK that if you are disabled, under SS, you go ON Disability as though you were 65.

IF you did not MAKE very good wages while you were working, you did not pay very much, and that does affect your benefit.

BY the same token, you could have one year out of college, break your neck on a motorsickle, and get Disability payment as though you were 65. You will NEVER find a better Program than SS, for Working People. You COULD do as some of you do, buy "Income replacement policies", good luck with that.

Bored with this. You guys are SO ......

"If someone is wondering "why won't they pay more?", it may simply be that Social Security Disability pays 30% of the highest income years, so $80,000 translates into $24,000 on disability.

And I know the machinist that did it.

To avoid an employee translating a $90,000 job into a $27,000 vacation, don't pay $90,000. "

I was going to leave, but that struck me. YOU think people want to get a 90 thou Job so they can get HURT, and go on Disability, for 24 or 27 thou?

It may surprise you to learn that people LIKE to work, be productive, and, yes, they need any kind of income.

I was hurt on the job 8 1/2 years ago, denied Comp, which I did not ask for, simply wanted treatment, was denied. I worked another 10 months in excruciating pain, finally had to go on S&A. I would have PREFERRED retiring at my given date. I simply could not.

We don't ALL try to screw the Gov, maybe some, like you DO.

To those who SHOULD think SS does not give back, I get a pretty good return on what I paid into for 50 years. I don't regret one penny of my "TAX". hat it ends when I die means nothing to me, I won't know it.Iit ain't like I am a multimillionaire and my Lawyer says he will make sure I take it all with me, and puts his check in the coffin.

You should rethink whether you should be Dem Or Rep. MOST of you SHOULD be Dem, BUT, you ALL declare that you are "Bidnessmen', so, of COURSE you are Reps.

What a World!

George

The article did say CNC Operators, could just be a vague name for a machinist (as most dont know the difference between Machinist,Operater,Set-up man, Programmer,etc) but we all know the real difference is that a machinist will set-up,program,run the lot of pcs and do the inspection so he is really responsible for the entire job- at least in almost all shops.
If real CNC Machinists were really in that much demand we would all be making much more and finding jobs would be relatively easy.
4 CNC Machinist jobs I applied for in the last 2 weeks contacted me with the only question of "What was my last hourly wage" or "What is the lowest
wage I would accept?". They didn't ask any other question or to set up a interview. The only important fact was money.

"The article did say CNC Operators, could just be a vague name for a machinist (as most dont know the difference between Machinist,Operater,Set-up man, Programmer,etc) but we all know the real difference is that a machinist will set-up,program,run the lot of pcs and do the inspection so he is really responsible for the entire job- at least in almost all shops."

And that is pathetic! WE allow our "machinists" to inspect our own output. "I never made ANY scrap. I inspected it, my self!" I THINK you should REALLY have someone check your work. I won't say you are BIASED, but, I DO think you just MIGHT let stuff go that an Inspector would BUT, another pair of eyes might find that you are over or under limit

That you can do all this while running numerous VMCs is remarkable. You are SO proficient, that you can runs an entire Cell, and certify ALL your parts.

I could have passed some of my F**ps off, were I my own Inspector, many years ago. Unfortunately, I had salaried Inspectors whose job it was to make sure that what i made was up to the print.

Hell of it is, most of that work goes TO the buyer, who DOES have Inspectors, and THEY check, and THEY send parts back to you to be redone. Do YOU get dunned for shoddy work, or does your Boss say they must be using Chinese mensuration equipment?

4 people did the work that you claim you do,in the past. Congratulations. You are the greatest. ALL your work is perfect. I think not. You are Human.

George

Geesh George, just like to argue?

They did mention operators, which to me are button pushers. Not much different from assembly line workers in that their job duties are limitted to keeping it running and maybe quick inspection of parts coming off. It is quite wrong for them to call these openings for machinists. In the factories, CNC operators are very far from machinists. And just as wrong for calling it "skilled". These operators will be trained on "what if" basis and are people who make major changes or decisions to the production of parts.

That is like calling burger flippers at Mcdonald's "cooks", or more yet, "chefs". When these burger flippers put pre-made patties on the grill (hardly so) that has a preset timer and is at a preset temperature, that is not a skilled process. Same with a CNC operator, basically just running parts through. They are in no way machinists. A cnc machinist is found in a machine shop and can use a cnc machine to make a part or parts to print by proper means and select tools.

In that first link, there was a comment by someone stating that the programming is done by an engineer. that guy obviously has his head in his ass. If most engineers only new anything about machining, it might make a machinists life easier. Or so I have ran into some parts that better design sure would have helped.

I don't think I'd give up a 90K job for a 27K vacation. But then again, I'm not one of those such idiots. And, I'm sorry George< but stating that people want to work is an ignorant statement these days. In the nearly 16 years since I graduated high school, I have seen a lot of dumb and lazy come out of school. Mostly lazy and the lazy part makes them dumb. I was very surprised at the worthlessness even just a few years after me. Place I worked then brought in some young help and you had to constantly keep them going or they would just stand around and look stupid. I think these days if you could rig up their nintendo controller to machines or robots, that is about the only way to get productivity out of some of the new meats.

But, back to topic, they seem to be confused between cnc operator vs setup/programmer. Operators require no skills and they will not find too many experience setup/programmers to work at $10-15 per hour. And i do not think there as many jobs for setup/programmer, seeing that many cases you will have one oversee say 10 machines with 10 operators/button monkeys.

George, What is with the attitude in both your posts?
Did I say I dont ever make a mistake or that I am perfect? Or say I run a entire cell? No I did not.
Most of all the shops/plants I have worked in are small and only 2 have had inspectors. I am not a production machinist and mostly have done prototype/engineering machining. Working with the engineering dept is much different then in production so yes I do have had to inspect my own work and if you work in a small shop that can not justify a full time inspector you learn to be more careful.If the part comes back wrong it is my ass on the line so why would I let it go? Most of us have pride in what we do, so we make every effort to make it right or even better then what is called out.But yes sometimes all of us make a mistake,even your so called perfect inspector you so heavily rely on.
Maybe if you had more experience you would know each shop/plant runs differently.
And no not all buyers have inspectors. Not all customers are that large to afford that luxury either of a full inspection department-again you seem to be used to large companies buying large quantities,there are small customers who only buy a few pcs on occasion.
You think those 4 people did the work I did? They were employers trying to fill a position for as cheaply as possible. Do you think I should take a 30-40% or more pay cut to satisfy their wants? They may not need someone with my experience or most likely they just want a operator not a machinist.
George did you ever wonder why union welders and electricians get paid much more then any machinists? At least they do in my area.It is because they stick together, something you apparently dont want to do. Notice the rest of us have the same view of this trade? That is not getting paid for the knowledge/skill level needed to do this sort of work.
At least "Annoying" understands and made some good points.
Here is a recent article,stating jobs for men in all areas are declining,because employers want to save money at the expense of their employees
Are American workers getting lazy? - 1 - productivity & wages - MSN Money

behindpropellers said:

In demand but Employers are not willing to pay fairly.

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I completly disagree with the above statement. The industry has changed, Shops have huge competition and parts just dont bring the money they used to. The overhead is higher and the dollar is devalued. How is a shop suppose to stay in business if the wage to shop rate is upside-down? Say you have a $65/hr rate. If you pay your machinist half of that, how are you supose to keep the doors open paying rent, tooling bills, taxes, machine payments...you get the drift. Most employers would love to be able to provide high paying jobs, the simple answer is they cant if they want to stay in business.

Calling operators unskilled? What about the guys making or sharpening their own tools? How about the ones who encounter a problem, and actually have the know-how and drive to fix the problem? And those are the ones worth more than 10 bucks an hour in any shops. And idle machine is COSTING you money. A $10 operator is costing you money either way, so you better have enough machines running to pay his or her modest wage. This is where shops shoot themselves in the foot by not training their operators to actually do some skilled stuff. I have been to plenty of shops that have very low skilled to unskilled ratios... Guess what... They are not makin much money, and their shops rates have gone down the tank as a result! The ones that actually teach their operators to be skilled tradesman have no problem keeping the work coming, and making a lot of money as a result. I wish these crap shops would hurry up and die so they can quit ruining this trade for the unfortunate young people who end up getting stuck there.

andywire said:

Calling operators unskilled? What about the guys making or sharpening their own tools? How about the ones who encounter a problem, and actually have the know-how and drive to fix the problem? And those are the ones worth more than 10 bucks an hour in any shops. And idle machine is COSTING you money. A $10 operator is costing you money either way, so you better have enough machines running to pay his or her modest wage. This is where shops shoot themselves in the foot by not training their operators to actually do some skilled stuff. I have been to plenty of shops that have very low skilled to unskilled ratios... Guess what... They are not makin much money, and their shops rates have gone down the tank as a result! The ones that actually teach their operators to be skilled tradesman have no problem keeping the work coming, and making a lot of money as a result. I wish these crap shops would hurry up and die so they can quit ruining this trade for the unfortunate young people who end up getting stuck there.

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Its this simple, QUIT YOUR JOB and go work for the magical shop you described. Better yet, start up your own machine shop and run it the way you want to. The latter of the two would be the biggest eye opener for you. There is much much more to running a machine shop than just making parts and having your spindles turning.

Good luck on your carreer search!

proturn said:

I completly disagree with the above statement. The industry has changed, Shops have huge competition and parts just dont bring the money they used to. The overhead is higher and the dollar is devalued. How is a shop suppose to stay in business if the wage to shop rate is upside-down? Say you have a $65/hr rate. If you pay your machinist half of that, how are you supose to keep the doors open paying rent, tooling bills, taxes, machine payments...you get the drift. Most employers would love to be able to provide high paying jobs, the simple answer is they cant if they want to stay in business.

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I couldn't have said this better. Hell, $65 an hour would be wishful thinking in my area. At $50 an hour, I probably get about 20% of the work I quote. A few days ago, I quoted a job.........1 piece, 1/2" x 3" x 7" HRS, two milled 17/32" milled slots about 1 1/4" long, a few 5/16-18 tapped holes and a few .3125 dowel holes.
I quoted $32 and received a purchase order. The purchase order had $23 on the unit amount. I called about the discrepancy in price, and they had made a mistake........... and cancelled the purchase order. $32 was WAY too high.

Who could run that part for less than $23 and make enough money to pay a decent wage, provide health benefits, pay overhead costs, buy tooling and give Uncle Sam his share ??? I get so fed up with this crap, it's not funny.



Frank

proturn said:

Its this simple, QUIT YOUR JOB and go work for the magical shop you described. Better yet, start up your own machine shop and run it the way you want to. The latter of the two would be the biggest eye opener for you. There is much much more to running a machine shop than just making parts and having your spindles turning.

Good luck on your carreer search!

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I got an offer recently for a swiss CNC machine shop in my area for $18.50/hr, plus 15% midnight diff, all the OT I can eat, and $55/hr on Sunday. Trust me, they are making more than enough to pay my wage. Not a bad paycheck for a 25 year old runt that just started on CNC about a year ago. That is for an operator job I just described, where you run 4-5 machines simultaneously per shift, 10 hours a day. When your tool is dull, you sharpen it and set it. Set up guys here are going for $25/hr, and running 2-3 machines while setting up. Shops that don't have the skilled workers, or the most efficient machines, cannot compete, plain and simple. Making the part is the easy part these days I'm afraid... You need the guy that can cut the cycle time down in half, and then cut it down again, along with operators who can keep up with the machines. When I run 4 machines, believe me, I am WORKING just as efficiently as the machines. My company brought in 4 guys along with me, and I was the only one who lasted. Finding the guys that actually have the brains to do it is nothing short of a miracle.

andywire said:

I got an offer recently for a swiss CNC machine shop in my area for $18.50/hr, plus 15% midnight diff, all the OT I can eat, and $55/hr on Sunday. Trust me, they are making more than enough to pay my wage. Not a bad paycheck for a 25 year old runt that just started on CNC about a year ago. That is for an operator job I just described, where you run 4-5 machines simultaneously per shift, 10 hours a day. When your tool is dull, you sharpen it and set it. Set up guys here are going for $25/hr, and running 2-3 machines while setting up. Shops that don't have the skilled workers, or the most efficient machines, cannot compete, plain and simple. Making the part isY the easy part these days I'm afraid... You need the guy that can cut the cycle time down in half, and then cut it down again, along with operators who can keep up with the machines. When I run 4 machines, believe me, I am WORKING just as efficiently as the machines. My company brought in 4 guys along with me, and I was the only one who lasted. Finding the guys that actually have the brains to do it is nothing short of a miracle.

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Sounds to me like you have a great gig! Ok, now think of this. Your boss bought those two or three swiss machines, lets for arguments sake say they were 200k a pop tooled up with barfeeds. This is on the low end of coarse. Thanks 600k plus your wage 65k/yr. tooling per year for those 20k, shop rent $25k/yr....the list goes on. those machines have to make $5100 at the very minimum after material expenses and other overhead to just keep the doors open. that 52 weeks a year! Keep in mind these estimates are on the low end of the scale to have a fair argument.
Now, unless you have LTA's I know that those machines are not all running every day for 52 weeks. lets say they they only run 31 weeks of the year because statistics show shops run at about 60%. Those machines have to make at least $8700 to just break even for every one of those 31 weeks. Like I said before, you have a pretty good gig considering all you have to do is keep those machines running. I guarrantee your boss has more stress than you!

proturn said:

Sounds to me like you have a great gig! Ok, now think of this. Your boss bought those two or three swiss machines, lets for arguments sake say they were 200k a pop tooled up with barfeeds. This is on the low end of coarse. Thanks 600k plus your wage 65k/yr. tooling per year for those 20k, shop rent $25k/yr....the list goes on. those machines have to make $5100 at the very minimum after material expenses and other overhead to just keep the doors open. that 52 weeks a year! Keep in mind these estimates are on the low end of the scale to have a fair argument.
Now, unless you have LTA's I know that those machines are not all running every day for 52 weeks. lets say they they only run 31 weeks of the year because statistics show shops run at about 60%. Those machines have to make at least $8700 to just break even for every one of those 31 weeks. Like I said before, you have a pretty good gig considering all you have to do is keep those machines running. I guarrantee your boss has more stress than you!

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Yes, I now and appreciate the crap the foreman have to put up with, as well as the owners. I personally don't have the gonads for it, although at the rate my ego is inflating... Who knows. I just try to worry about... Am I doing everything I possibly can on my end to earn my way and keep my shop making money? Most operators don't give a crap. That's why they get paid like it. Even at $10, many are overpaid. But your future "machinists" have to start somewhere. Don't knock em cause they are "operators" right now. I know many that have potential to do great things in the trade, and really do want to learn and grow. Unfortunately, how far you progress largely depends on a lot of other factors besides the individual... The economy, the set up guy that knows you could take his job, the crap hole shop that just wants cheap labor so screw teaching... Lots of factors. Theres a reason older guys are turning their spawns away from this trade...

Is CNC machining the biggest skill in demand right now?

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No.

Are good CNC machinist in demand?

Absolutely. In fact all Good machinist are in demand.

What does give me hope is the Jr high and high schools that have at least a cnc router. The 12 to 18 years old nerds soak up that stuff like a sponge.