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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Not seeing the parallels.
    Do you think Texas or California are leaving soon?
    For sure very many think DC is out of touch, nothing remotely new there, a few hundred years stand with this view.
    Attack New York and every Texan is outraged and will go crazy mad. Attack Demark... how many others stand proud?
    (one has to understand the view of Texas towards New York to understand this post.....we are divided on much yet very firmly united)
    I see nowhere near the same deal across the pond.
    Bob
    I can understand the confusion as the "parallels" you see in my post aren't the ones I meant. What I meant was that Europeans are fed up with being told by a centralist government (EU parliament) what they can't do and what they are "allowed" to do. My "comparison" was between the US government and the EU government. Both are IMO out of touch with "the people".

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    Quote Originally Posted by juergenwt View Post
    Gordon - I am sorry. You are right. It was not the Queen. It was Mrs. Thatcher.
    Read here and scroll down to watch the movie. Just great!!

    Watch Margaret Thatcher Explain Why the Euro Is a Terrible Idea in 199 - The Atlantic
    Maybe it's because I left the UK in the mid 60ties and never experienced Thatcher first hand that I must admit to liking her "style". For better or worse I was never in doubt as to her opinion and she stuck to her guns. That's not something most politicians can be relied on to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I can understand the confusion as the "parallels" you see in my post aren't the ones I meant. What I meant was that Europeans are fed up with being told by a centralist government (EU parliament) what they can't do and what they are "allowed" to do. My "comparison" was between the US government and the EU government. Both are IMO out of touch with "the people".
    Now that I've slept on the above I've a few things to add. The EU parliament tries very hard to "run" the countries in the EU. This doesn't always go down well with the leaders in all countries and certainly doesn't go down well with the populations of the EU countries. At general elections I know who I vote for and I accept that I don't always get what I hoped for. As to voting in EU elections my choice is to all purposes limited to a handful of often washed up politicians who get "sent" to Luxembourg to get them out of the way from domestic policy. I suspect the same is the case for other EU politicians.

    Damned if I want to be "ruled" by a bunch of corrupt foreign politicians.

    This then brings me to something that crossed my mind. The US president is often referred to as "The most powerful man on Earth" and, given the weapon arsenal at his disposal this is true. My question is - who is it in fact that "runs" the USA on a daily basis? I can't imagine any president having the time or oversight to do that and congress often seems more engaged with fighting "the opposition" than doing what is best for the country. How in fact is the USA governed and by whom?

    The questions I pose are similar to what I feel I is going on within the EU. Thus the parallel.

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    [QUOTE=Gordon B. Clarke;2937741
    This then brings me to something that crossed my mind. The US president is often referred to as "The most powerful man on Earth" and, given the weapon arsenal at his disposal this is true. My question is - who is it in fact that "runs" the USA on a daily basis? I can't imagine any president having the time or oversight to do that and congress often seems more engaged with fighting "the opposition" than doing what is best for the country. How in fact is the USA governed and by whom?

    The questions I pose are similar to what I feel I is going on within the EU. Thus the parallel.[/QUOTE]

    Nobody "runs" the USA on a daily basis, that's the fundamental principle of our Constitution. People run their own lives.

    Every once in a while the people eat too much cabbage, and produce a bit of stinking flatulence that thinks he's going to "run" the country, but eventually he dilutes and dissipates, as gas usually does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Switzerland does everything it can to remain neutral. You obviously don't.

    I'd like that explained to me as 9 EU countries still have their own currency. Switzerland is not an EU country so of course you don't have the Euro. Bet your banks have no problem trading with it though.

    A neutral question asked seriously. The Swiss Frank is very strong. How is that affecting export?
    Switzerland may do everything it can to remain neutral, it isn’t. Never was, never will be. The old confederation was based on weapons, drugs (wine and beer), and money from the Vatican. The peasants spoke a prayer before each battle but basically they ran against an enemy drunk. The old swiss confederation was something like a middle-ages ISIS in the heart of Europe, like a cancer, feared and hated by many. Switzerland is culturally dependent on Germany, France, and Italy. Watchmaking came in from Germany (Peter Henlein of Nürnberg) and France. Aciera or Schäublin milling machines are derivatives of American machines, Pratt & Whitney, to name one.

    Yes, there are more countries with own currencies. Yes, the banks here have no problem trading with any money, if I remember correctly. Idi Amin Dada, Gadhafi, Ben Ali, the emperor of Japan, endless. Since the bank law of 1934 the situation has been almost paradise.

    Exports suffer from the strong Frank. What shall I say, we walk around in China made clothes and shoes, we import every gram of metal, we have no coal, no gas, no oil. We have granite and water.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    How in fact is the USA governed and by whom?
    The United States is ran by bureaucrats. We are no longer a nation of laws, passed by congress. We are a nation of regulations, duly passed by whatever agency wished to make a power grab.

    One of the greatest examples of this is the (hopefully) dead WOTUS rules. That single regulation would have put more formerly private land under the EPA's thumb than any other single government regulation. Even the US Army Corps of Engineers, an unwilling partner, was on record as stating it was an unconstitutional intrusion not supported by the Clean Water Act.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post

    I'm thinking it but trying to avoid writing it but there seems to be many parallels between the situation of the USA today and what the EU has become. The EU parliament is out of touch with what voters want and they are both angry and frustrated at being overlooked.
    .
    I find it interesting that you tried to avoid writing what so many other observers in the U.S. and elsewhere have also concluded. When a government, ANY government, behaves in a manner that causes large numbers of voters to feel that they are being neglected and ignored they will rebel against that government and those who support it. It has been said that Trump was elected largely due to "the forgotten man" whose pain he was able to tap into.

    A good friend describes the feeling as "a beggar at the feast" and the feeling is much worse when the beggar is part of those who prepared the food and set the table (by working hard, paying taxes and obeying the rules) before being uninvited.

    The irony is IMO that you seem unable to see the disconnect between your own relentless Trump-bashing and the statement I just quoted. I remember clearly (and can dig it up and quote it if necessary) that prior to the election you suggested that any American voting for Trump must be crazy. Re-read the statement I quoted above and ask yourself if "the forgotten man" had any other choice in a field of candidates (Ben Carson excepted) who had long been part of maintaining the status quo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    So are you wanting to do away with the State or Federal level?
    Since your from Ont that would be getting rid of two layers of liberal spendthrifts that seem to think unemployement can be solved by hiring all their friends and sending the bill to the rich 1' so yeah . ...Trevor

    Sorta sounds like E.U. Eh
    O

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    I'm just reading about the " Dark Money " that funded the Brexit campaign. An American billionaire Trump supporter called Robert Mercer was involved in bank rolling the Leave movement apparently. What's it got to do with him I ask myself ?

    Something stinks to high heaven in this.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post

    I don't see how it can be done but the only way IMO the EU can survive is to go back to the stage where it was about mutual cooperation to facilitate trade. Trying to unite European countries each with their own language and culture is a lost cause.
    I don't think this is possible. It seems like anytime you get some sort of central control the nature of things is that it works to grab more and more power and money for itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    I find it interesting that you tried to avoid writing what so many other observers in the U.S. and elsewhere have also concluded. When a government, ANY government, behaves in a manner that causes large numbers of voters to feel that they are being neglected and ignored they will rebel against that government and those who support it. It has been said that Trump was elected largely due to "the forgotten man" whose pain he was able to tap into.

    A good friend describes the feeling as "a beggar at the feast" and the feeling is much worse when the beggar is part of those who prepared the food and set the table (by working hard, paying taxes and obeying the rules) before being uninvited.

    The irony is IMO that you seem unable to see the disconnect between your own relentless Trump-bashing and the statement I just quoted. I remember clearly (and can dig it up and quote it if necessary) that prior to the election you suggested that any American voting for Trump must be crazy. Re-read the statement I quoted above and ask yourself if "the forgotten man" had any other choice in a field of candidates (Ben Carson excepted) who had long been part of maintaining the status quo.
    I've read your post 3 times now and I still don't get where you are going.

    "I find it interesting that you tried to avoid writing what so many other observers in the U.S. and elsewhere have also concluded."
    Have I or have I not avoided? Probably escaped your notice as you seem intent on finding perceived US insults and Trump bashing in just about everything I write. This thread was about the EU and I'm trying to stay within the EU topic as much as possible. I have stated that I see certain parallels between what Europeans feel about the EU "government" and what US citizens feel about the US government. By "US government" I do not mean the Trump administration. As far as the Trump administration goes I'm waiting to see what congress goes along with and allows. If Trump is as smart as he thinks he is he'll play a "bash the Democrats" card and that'll keep majority in congress busy for months. I'm hoping one day congress will find the time to do what it gets paid to do - Make America A Great Country For All - aAgain.

    As to "I remember clearly (and can dig it up and quote it if necessary) that prior to the election you suggested that any American voting for Trump must be crazy." then maybe it has also gone unnoticed that I' was far from the only one that thought that and in fact recent events haven't changed my mind.

    I will give you this though. Trump seems to have quietened down a bit the last few days. For all of your sakes I hope it isn't the quiet before the storm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    I'm just reading about the " Dark Money " that funded the Brexit campaign. An American billionaire Trump supporter called Robert Mercer was involved in bank rolling the Leave movement apparently. What's it got to do with him I ask myself ?

    Something stinks to high heaven in this.

    Regards Tyrone.
    Question is - how much dark money was funding the "stay" position? In my experience there is usually outside funding on both sides of any issue. Sometimes it's for potential gain while at others it is someone supporting a position they believe in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    I'm just reading about the " Dark Money " that funded the Brexit campaign. An American billionaire Trump supporter called Robert Mercer was involved in bank rolling the Leave movement apparently. What's it got to do with him I ask myself ?

    Something stinks to high heaven in this.

    Regards Tyrone.
    Where I live becoming a east European ghetto was a cost free brexit campaign

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    This post will be a mixture of facts and personal opinions. I believe the EU was originally started to make trade between countries in Europe easier. What it has since become becomes less and less what the populations of the individual citizens in each country want but this seems to have been continually ignored by politicians and bureaucrats working within the union. It seems to have been overlooked that the U in EU stands for Union and not United.

    The goal for the fast couple of decades seems to have been a United States of Europe with a central administration continuously overriding the laws of the individual member countries.
    The EU was not always as big as it is today. When European countries started to cooperate economically in 1951, only Belgium, Germany, France, Italy, Luxembourg and the Netherlands participated.

    Over time, more and more countries decided to join and were allowed to do so. The current size is 28 member countries with the accession of Croatia on 1 July 2013.
    At present the total population of the EU is 510,000,000 and the total population of Europe is 739,000,000.

    With Brexit the UK will leave the EU and the populations of several other EU countries have expressed that they are thinking about doing the same. The common denominator IMO seems to be that many are just sick fed up with more and more being decided by EU parliament and EU bureaucrats. The more "united" politicians seem to want Europe to become the more divided it gets. I doubt if there was a public vote that the majority would vote to give up the sovereignty of their country as seems to be the EU goal. the single currency (Euro €) was also a nice thought - in theory. Seems to be a disaster in reality. I don't think many citizens in the non Euro countries realise that by EU law they will in a few years be forced to have the Euro as their currency. That certainly won't go down well.

    I don't see how it can be done but the only way IMO the EU can survive is to go back to the stage where it was about mutual cooperation to facilitate trade. Trying to unite European countries each with their own language and culture is a lost cause.

    I'm thinking it but trying to avoid writing it but there seems to be many parallels between the situation of the USA today and what the EU has become. The EU parliament is out of touch with what voters want and they are both angry and frustrated at being overlooked.

    I don't know how relevant this is but wages and perks given to EU politicians and bureaucrats are much higher and better than what they could hope for if working in their own country. They most certainly will fight to keep their privileges.
    I like your post, and by curiosity, i would like to read your opinion about Portugal...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ricardo_gt View Post
    I like your post, and by curiosity, i would like to read your opinion about Portugal...
    Don't really have an opinion of Portugal the country but do have for the people.

    Been there twice, both times on business. First time in Lisbon, second time in Porto. What I really liked was that the sense of humour was very similar to for example the British.

    Food and wine? Excellent. Wined and dined with the natives so they knew how to impress me. Tried calamari for the first time and have loved it ever since.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Don't really have an opinion of Portugal the country but do have for the people.

    Been there twice, both times on business. First time in Lisbon, second time in Porto. What I really liked was that the sense of humour was very similar to for example the British.

    Food and wine? Excellent. Wined and dined with the natives so they knew how to impress me. Tried calamari for the first time and have loved it ever since.
    Nice, you liked the food! We are good people, a little naive but good people

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    Quote Originally Posted by ricardo_gt View Post
    Nice, you liked the food! We are good people, a little naive but good people
    Can't resist this

    "a little naive"? You mean as those in the USA that voted for Trump believing he'd "Make America great again"?

    Before I'm yet again accused of "America bashing" again I've never thought of the USA as being anything less than great. Not for all maybe but for many.

    BTW I hear Ivanka and husband are moving into the White House as "advisors". Trump certainly seems to know how to keep business separate from being president. (N.B. a smidgeon of sarcasm)
    I think the USA is getting it's very own "Royal Family".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Can't resist this

    "a little naive"? You mean as those in the USA that voted for Trump believing he'd "Make America great again"?

    Before I'm yet again accused of "America bashing" again I've never thought of the USA as being anything less than great. Not for all maybe but for many.

    BTW I hear Ivanka and husband are moving into the White House as "advisors". Trump certainly seems to know how to keep business separate from being president. (N.B. a smidgeon of sarcasm)
    I think the USA is getting it's very own "Royal Family".
    In case you can't keep up, we've already had a few, Bushes, Clintons, Kennedys, Rockefellers, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rewt View Post
    In case you can't keep up, we've already had a few, Bushes, Clintons, Kennedys, Rockefellers, etc.
    You forgot to mention if you are boasting or cringing.


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