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Should we eliminate the miniumum wage

kpotter

Diamond
Joined
Apr 30, 2001
Location
tucson arizona usa
Just to be clear I think this is a bad idea, but I see no way to bring jobs back to America unless we lower our standard of living, large companies are going to go were people and government are the cheapest and they will take their jobs with them why stay in a place where you cant be competitive. While they are at it they could eliminate corporate taxes and health insurance and just to make sure that the poor dont flock to the government for help get rid of food stamps and welfare and the epa. I bet all the companies in the world would flock here to exploit us instead of the Chinese. By the way I am a socialist and believe the government should own large corporations or big parts of them so that they are a benefit to the country not a burden that way we the people have a say in what happens to the jobs not just share holders. I guess I am a socialist with a bad case of entrepernerial envy since I have been self employed for 20 years.
 
That would be a race to the bottom. The next 10-20 years will be bad enough.

If it was all small business it still would not want to, but would not be so against it. But with all markets heading towards monopoly the rich would beat us against eachother mercilessly.

In other words. If Walmart is the only game in town. And all walmarts pay $2 an hour......

Now someone will come along and say "well they could employ 5 times the number of people" But they wont. They will employ the same number as before. Just pocket the difference. And who the hell will buy the product? If you reduce the wage to 25% of the norm. It will have a deflatonary effect on all wages. And will you divide housing by 25%
 
I know a guy real well who pays his employees 20 dollars a day and he has an endless supply of willing able bodied men who are happy to get 20 dollars for an 8 hour day.
 
After the 2008 elections, I had thought we had turned a corner as a nation and were going to get back to work.

I had thought the country had finally awoken to the fact that we weren't going to be able to compete against the Germans and Japanese in the global market place with a played out, tired and antiquated work force, that we were going to finally start teaching our kids how to read and write and bring back real math and science to the classroom.

I had thought that we finally realized that there was no way we could compete on labor costs against a totalitarian society with no respect for intellectual property, environmental, product safety and labor laws. Instead, we were going to adopt a new vision for the U.S.A. where we would strive to have the best workforce in the world producing high quality products for our own consumption and export to the rest of the world.

But, nope, we aren't having any of that. The tea baggers and GOP power elites are going to drag us even further into the gutter. I guess they figure if they can't beat the Chinese, then we might as well join them.
 
I guess it would either be snitching for you to tell the Law about that, we DO have laws about employing illegal aliens, and they seem to be illegals, or you are hoping to get a couple of them to come do that "clean up the yard".

"Just to be clear I think this is a bad idea, but I see no way to bring jobs back to America unless we lower our standard of living,"

Hell, why don't you just agree with the Pres' preference to all ow the tax cuts to expire? Tax on the rich, which you ain't, would allow the Gov to give welfare to the people who can't get jobs, at about 4 to 5 bucks an hour equivalent.

They could afford to buy the basics, shacks to live in, but I am sure there are some slumlords on here, as well as machinists, though they don't LIKE that name.

Funny that, except for some of you guys who want to get work done for "4 or 5 bucks an hour", most McDonalds and Wendies and Burger King and other fast food joints pay well over minimum wage. Surely, as big as they are, they could simply say "We don't pay anyone more than minimum."

You want to go back a 100 years to the "Masters of Industry", back to the days when Carnegie and his ilk TOLD the people working for him that he was cutting their wage in half, because HIS profit was too low. "Thank God, Life is worth living, again!"

Hey! Let's get the wage down to 2 bucks an hour. Do you have a shop? I am sure YOU would be happy to get work that you make 2 bucks an hour for your 8 hours. Over the course of a year, you will make 4160 bucks.

But, of course, YOU are not one of them who should get 2 bucks an hour. You are STILL worth 60 or more per hour, as are all your employee's output, BUT THEY might be only worth 2 bucks an hour. Just like all the peons you want everybody but you to become.

You want to be like Jack Welch was, when he wanted to put all GE's plants on islands that he could tow to the next cheap labor country.

Or like all the "entrepeneurs" in those countries who make millions from their 2 bucks an hour employees, and in most of those countries, WAY less than 2 bucks an hour.

MebFab is right about the "Race to the Bottom". We already are paid 1/2 to 1/3 the wage of the rest of the developed countries. Many of our European members tell us they could not live on our wages. They have work. We don't have work.

Something wrong with that. Maybe it is that European companies don't have "smart" MBA bosses as we do, who make hundreds of millions in "bonuses" if the offshore work raises their profits enough.

They do, of course, offshore. They build BMWs and Toyotas and Hondas in that low cost country, the USA.

We ARE third world, already.
 
The minimum wage was a bad idea from the start. Let the free market determine what a job is worth. There are some entry level jobs that aren't worth the minimum wage, so they go unfilled. For example, the wage here in Pa is $7.25/hr., I know I would pay someone say $4 or $5 /hr to do some simple yard cleanup, etc, but since we can't pay that, a lot of the work goes undone. If there was no minimum wage there would be more people employed which would be better than sitting on their butts waiting for food stamps and the welfare check. Plus, it will give people some work experience. Just for the record, I have two guys working for me, one gets $8/hr, the other $12, the rates are based on ability and experience. I know this will irritate the socialists here, but that's my take on it.

If you want to pay $4-$5/hr for yard cleanup, pay the kid down the street, you don't need to pay minimum wage for that:rolleyes5:
$8/hr? if he works 50hrs/week he gets $400 before taxes, bet he can afford good medical insurance with that sort of income:( I find it quite sad to be honest.
 
labor

I pay my 2 day aweek college kid 9.25 hr.,just gave him a 25cent raise.
he shovels manure,mows the grass,moves coal feeds parts to the mill, hits the green button when it will work,rebuilt my driveway,I kinda consider him my apprentice.
He is mentally handicapped in certain ways,the ways dont matter, I think we all are handicapped in one way or a tother

I give him lessons(my thoughts) on anything I decide to.
When I hired him he didnot know lawn mowers had oil in them,he does now,ha.

he left for what he thought was a cush job for 2 weeks,he came back beggin.
the goverment laws seems to have no morals, I like to live by morals..

Soon as the new boys bust the rest of the unions,perhaps they will do away with minumum wage? and the epa...
Interesting topic,gonna show some true colors maybe???
Gw
 
I brought this up because I heard a bunch of tea baggers talking about it on the news and saying how good it would be and how we could compete as a nation. All I could think was is our nation going to be saved by enslaving the poor and uneducated are these the people that our country will be rebuilt by. Then I thought when will we see the mass exodus of the middle class and anyone else who can afford to leave. I have been listening to these knuckle heads and I am concerned that we will get two years of stalemate at best, hopefully the president gets some balls and stops being a panzy and stands up to them but I doubt it.
 
I would absalutly love to hear Bomba say & do what he really thinks,I bet he would get re elected ,maybe even made king or sumthin.
Gw
 
I think the min wage thing is sort of a dumb talking point. The folks who claim abolishing it,
they don't admit that there's so many folks being paid off the books, it does not matter
to those workers.

Also the simple fact of the matter is that if you talk to anyone in the technology
jobs area, the min wage has no bearing at all. They MUST pay much more than that
to even get floor sweepers they can trust. Simple market economics.

The percentage of workers in the US that the min wage really and truly applies to is
SO tiny that it makes sense to keep it in place. You won't change the complextion of
the american workforce by taking it away, by one bit at all.

Certainly not in the technology sector.
 
Of course the conservatives are against the minimum wage. Their entire platform is to make rich people richer. That's all they care about, period. If they can pay people less and keep more for themselves, that's what they'll do. The whole social issues thing is just a hook to get idiots to vote for them. Could it be any more obvious?

It's all just greed.
 
Our lower middle class people are already getting close to leading third world country lives. I don't have employees anymore, but when I did I always started even the non skilled at $10 an hour. I think the minimum wage is fine where it is at. Only change I could think of is to be able to pay someone under 18 less. I do think they still have training wage provisions. I wish the political ranting would stop, it is pointless. Ask yourself if anything any politician has done has impacted you personally, likely answer, no! No matter who is in power, we get the same result. Finger pointing and fighting, nothing major gets done, rinse, and repeat. I guess as a moderate I am not too proud of either party. When I voted was it was rarely I liked a candidate, it was because I hated their opponent.
 
I brought this up because I heard a bunch of tea baggers talking about it on the news and saying how good it would be and how we could compete as a nation. All I could think was is our nation going to be saved by enslaving the poor and uneducated are these the people that our country will be rebuilt by. Then I thought when will we see the mass exodus of the middle class and anyone else who can afford to leave. I have been listening to these knuckle heads and I am concerned that we will get two years of stalemate at best, hopefully the president gets some balls and stops being a panzy and stands up to them but I doubt it.

I'm afraid the race to the bottom got several green flags in 2010 even before elections. Just a few warm up laps the past 3 decades.

Buckle up.
 
Hello Guys,

Here are some of my thoughts.

First hang or shoot the bean counters and CEO's for distorting there numbers as they do and are so good at to collect their bonuses or incentives for saving the company money by moving their business off shore!!

There are currently just enough taxes and tariffs in place if you look at THE TOTAL LANDED COST to have an item made overseas and shipped here it really is not profitable on most items. Not to mention the poor quality of items coming in.

What ever happened to fair trade ?

Raise the taxes and tariffs on incoming goods to level the playing field.

Why can't we charge the same money for our grain as we pay for a barrel of oil?

There was one of them news shows 20/20 or 60 minutes what ever on not to long ago that was talking about the billions and billions of uncollected tariffs that nobody is chasing down to collect. There is definitely some wrong with that picture!!

As far as minimum wage goes if we need it, people who are making minimum wage are not very far above the poverty line and live a very humble,meek life filled with strife!!
And most are getting some kind of government assistance!

I think this could be one answer to our countries problems. Please do some reading before you blurt out it will never work!!! Americans For Fair Taxation: Americans For Fair Taxation

It has passed in some states and SC where I live has passed some of the legislation for it to become reality!

A proposed take home your entire gross pay with no taxes taken out! how many times can the government tax your gross wages!!

But when you go to purchase anything you would pay 23% sales tax.

This would eliminate the "under the table salaries" the illegals would also be paying 23%,any one visiting the USA would pay 23%.

Everyone would have more money in their pocket to help stimulate the economy.

Here in SC most people that are middle income paying about 33.3% of their wages in taxes when all said and done.

Me being a Damn Yankee (because I came to visit and never left, soon to be converted after 20 years) Pennsylvanian actually pay more taxes here in SC than I did in PA when all is said and done because of the way taxes here are structured and collected.

No more 600 page tax forms to file your taxes,no loop holes for anyone.

No more IRS is needed and obama's billion $ creation of more IRS jobs could go to something else. Having to send 1099 on everthing over $200.00 what a stupid f*&#king idea that is!!

How is it possible that the feds get their cut from your gross, the state takes theirs from your gross, not the lesser amount that has already been taxed, if your in a state that has local tax it's taken from your gross and not from your wages have already been taxed twice!!

Now the stupid bastards are talking VAT TAX on top of our already heavily taxed income!!!:angry:

When sent the British back home for wanting to impose all kinds of taxes.Why have "We The People" let it get this far, and our country come to this point??

Every thing the Government has tried to run is bankrupt or on the verge of being bankrupt and their idea is to throw more of our tax dollars at it and not fix the problems.

GOVERNMENT YOUR ALL FIRED!!:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Sorry guys rant over!!

Regards
DD

Due to economic hard times the light at the end of the tunnel will be switched off until further notice!!
 
When sent the British back home for wanting to impose all kinds of taxes.Why have "We The People" let it get this far, and our country come to this point??


[/B]

That is very much a misnomer, the Boston tea party happened because the British wanted to de-regulate the tea trade, meaning the trading cartel that ran the tea trade would be open to competition. This meant they would be no longer able to charge inflated prices, therefore reducing their profits.
The more things change, the more they stay the same:)
 
Hello Guys,

Here are some of my thoughts.

[snip]

Why can't we charge the same money for our grain as we pay for a barrel of oil?

Simple. You're not a monopoly supplier. We'll happily sell grain cheaper if you want to try that and we'll still make a lot more money. It's a commodity item, as long as the quality is there do you think buyers are going to pay you 5X as much because it's US grain? Hell, you can't compete NOW, you subsidise your grain exports.

Ditto for tariffs on your imports. Sure you can do it but what are you going to do when other countries do it to you in return?

PDW
 
Yes, we should eliminate the minimum wage. This issue is intertwined with welfare laws which often penalize people financially for working their way out of poverty, but that's another topic.

As has been previously mentioned, the minimum wage has no bearing on most jobs, including many burger flippers. It only serves to price some people out of the market for certain positions that do not warrant that kind of pay. These people then remain unemployed or are paid under the table.

Some income is better than none. The teenager down the road is better off working for the low pay that he is qualified for and developing skills to better himself in the future, rather than loafing around texting his pals all day.

By the way, the teenager down the road from me makes $2-$3 above minimum wage, plus tips, at an entry level job.
 
Kpotter,

There is an easier way of doing what you propose, turn on the printing presses and spend like there is no tomorrow! If you can't raise the minimum wage, just make the money that it pay worth less!

It is called "quantitative easing"!
U.S. dollar printing is huge risk -China c.bank adviser | Reuters

In all reality I can't help but laugh to see China whine about it though. They have kept their currency so darn low for so damn long that they really leave us with little choice. It is going to get mighty interesting soon.

Adam
 








 
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