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  1. #21
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    Likely those supporting China-Made are the people making more profit with China goods then they can make with US made goods.. I figure that to be about 9% average and 100% on some things But we never/rarely see that savings.....Yes very rich USA people and Very rich china people making bigger profits....That is fine as long as we don't have to sell or give away our country to make some bozos rich..

    Installation jobs will still be there and US jobs as long as we think Solar is a worthy energy source..If it is not then good to go..

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Likely those supporting China-Made are the people making more profit with China goods then they can make with US made goods.. I figure that to be about 9% average...Yes very rich USA people and Very rich china people making bigger profits....That is fine as long as we don't have to sell or give away our country to make some bozos rich..

    Installation jobs will still be there as long as we think Solar is a worthy energy source..If it is not then good to go..
    Too late for that.
    The nation is already owned by bozos.

    Installation jobs will die off because we are charging a tax on the installations. That's what a tariff is, an import tax.

    Like most taxes, and all excise taxes it is carried by consumers.

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    cbed6cb4-e338-43d4-a2ab-af69639d26e4.jpg
    .............................

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    If the product costs 15% more how does that make the installers take a pay cut or loose jobs?

    Yes 30% the first year. Agree that is a little high but pay back for being stupid enough to give jobs away in the first place..Being stupid on our part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    If the product costs 15% more how does that make the installers take a pay cut or loose jobs?
    Fewer consumers will buy the product.
    Less demand, fewer jobs.

    Suppose the price of flour doubles...fewer people buy bread...fewer bakers.

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    The objective is not to save jobs in net- it is to protect the fossils fuel industry which will find itself less and less able to compete with alternative.
    It is simply “picking winners” at a cost to US long term competitiveness and short term employment.

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    If beer goes up 50 cents a bottle we will all stop drinking beer...

    1 of the World's Most Expensive Beers | Mental Floss

  13. #28
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    Hanermo,

    Besides the usual "facts" that you appear to have pulled from your nether regions do you have any ACTUAL factual research that you could link to?

    Claiming that I am "Completely wrong on facts" without anything other than your own opinion is a pretty bold statement. Got anything to back it up?

    I am well aware that "There are zero advanced german solar cell companies". That is exactly the point. Well meaning laws were passed with the intent of encouraging same and instead they just bought gobs of Chinese cells using German subsidies.

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    We should strive to help the world until everybody in the world has a 2000 square foot house, a refrigerator full of food. two cars, a 17 foot boat, three long guns and one hand gun, summer and winter climate control, a dog or two pet cats, a hobby lathe out in the garage, and a least a 2hp lawn mower..Oh and a gas grill and a large beer cooler.

    Oh 188 sq meters house (?about)

    Any one having more should give it up to make the world a better place..till we all are equal. Think Karl Marx said that..and the bum could not work hard enough to feed his own family.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    If beer goes up 50 cents a bottle we will all stop drinking beer...
    Hell NO. Just as there are good and bad wines there are good and not so good beers.

    The 2 European Countries That Drink The Most Beer - Business Insider

    The 2 European Countries That Drink The Most Beer - Business Insider

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  18. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    If beer goes up 50 cents a bottle we will all stop drinking beer...

    1 of the World's Most Expensive Beers | Mental Floss
    If good beer goes up enough, people move to cheap beer.
    If bud and bush are the same price, but the state puts a 40% tax on bud, lots of people will switch to Busch.

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  20. #32
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    I just had a look on eBay for PV panels. Looks like the price has dropped like a rock recently - maybe due to your tariffs, who knows, but a 200W panel is down to $114 AUD, best price I could find on a quick look.

    Could you please put tariffs on a few more Chinese/Korean products? It'll help us immensely. Of course it won't do a damn thing for you, but that's not *my* problem.

    Kind of the reverse of what the TPP was going to do to us so now it looks like that's 2 decisions by Trump that I approve of, from a parochial Australian POV.

    PDW

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  22. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    I just had a look on eBay for PV panels. Looks like the price has dropped like a rock recently - maybe due to your tariffs, who knows, but a 200W panel is down to $114 AUD, best price I could find on a quick look.

    Could you please put tariffs on a few more Chinese/Korean products? It'll help us immensely. Of course it won't do a damn thing for you, but that's not *my* problem.

    Kind of the reverse of what the TPP was going to do to us so now it looks like that's 2 decisions by Trump that I approve of, from a parochial Australian POV.

    PDW
    Hey Scott...MAGA!!!!

    Even better, we will never export a single panel.
    Domestic demand will fall due to cost.
    Making us even less competitive.

    Install jobs will stay gone.

    MAGA!!!!!!!!

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  24. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Likely those supporting China-Made are the people making more profit with China goods then they can make with US made goods.. I figure that to be about 9% average and 100% on some things But we never/rarely see that savings.....Yes very rich USA people and Very rich china people making bigger profits....That is fine as long as we don't have to sell or give away our country to make some bozos rich..

    Installation jobs will still be there and US jobs as long as we think Solar is a worthy energy source..If it is not then good to go..
    The economics of made in China absolutely benefits the big boys on both sides of the ocean. One clue as to how cheaply they are made is warranty policy. For most products there is no repair, just replacement, usually limited to one year. After that toss it out and buy another. I've bought stuff direct from China. How about $3.45 shipped for a "tactical" LED flashlight? the same exact thing sells at retail for $10-15. When the clerk in a store tells you something is "just as good as" the old brand they used to carry what they really mean is just as good for them from a profit standpoint.

    Expect more screaming from the usual crowd as we slowly correct things. A lot of them liked the way things were just fine and just who and why will become more obvious as the process continues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Expect more screaming from the usual crowd.
    I honestly had hoped that you and your crowd would stop screaming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    I've bought stuff direct from China. How about $3.45 shipped for a "tactical" LED flashlight? the same exact thing sells at retail for $10-15.
    You've bought stuff directly from China? So does your buddy Trump.

    I hear "Don't do as I do, do as I say".

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  29. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    The economics of made in China absolutely benefits the big boys on both sides of the ocean. One clue as to how cheaply they are made is warranty policy. For most products there is no repair, just replacement, usually limited to one year. After that toss it out and buy another. I've bought stuff direct from China. How about $3.45 shipped for a "tactical" LED flashlight? the same exact thing sells at retail for $10-15. When the clerk in a store tells you something is "just as good as" the old brand they used to carry what they really mean is just as good for them from a profit standpoint.

    Expect more screaming from the usual crowd as we slowly correct things. A lot of them liked the way things were just fine and just who and why will become more obvious as the process continues.
    Most of those were conservative Walmart shoppers.
    Trade wars only drive up costs and make our stuff less competitive.


    If you really gave a shit you'd be buying union.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QO7VUklDlQw

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    Fair question - absolutely I have facts.
    Look up QSUN, canadian solar, whomever latest stock market disclosures in 10Ks etc.

    The top 5 pv companies are chinese and disclose volumes sold, units, income, and cogs.
    And thus cost/unit made.
    Some comments on production lines, current best production costs, blended production costs, etc.

    Last year 2017 china installed about 54 GWh of capacity.
    This was, iirc, out of 60-75 Gwh global total.

    I quote numbers as blended averages/volume -- my costs mentioned were as I remember them.
    More or less, for the top results.

    Do You doubt the facts from US stock exchange listed companies, all the 5 top china solar PV makers ?
    Do You Insult people using these as references ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Hanermo,

    Besides the usual "facts" that you appear to have pulled from your nether regions do you have any ACTUAL factual research that you could link to?

    Claiming that I am "Completely wrong on facts" without anything other than your own opinion is a pretty bold statement. Got anything to back it up?

    I am well aware that "There are zero advanced german solar cell companies". That is exactly the point. Well meaning laws were passed with the intent of encouraging same and instead they just bought gobs of Chinese cells using German subsidies.

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    Since the tarriffs on imported solar panels and washing machines are against all imports of those items, irrespective of origin, they are pure protectionism. It's a pity that WTO complaints and investigations take so long. The bugger will probably be out of office before his policy gets trashed.

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    I learned recently that Norway made some smart choices when they started selling oil. Instead of letting the rich companies make huge fortunes they made them pay realistic royalties and they saved the royalty money for the people of Norway. They use the interest to pay for government programs and do not touch the principal.
    It is now something like 150,000 dollars per citizen.
    Bill D.

    Government Pension Fund of Norway - Wikipedia

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