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    Default US international trading with an insane president

    Heard/saw on my TV news tonight that Trump intends on keeping one of his election promises right after he becomes president. He's going to cancel participation by the USA in the FTA/TPP.

    For those that don't know what this is then check out these links.

    Trans-Pacific Partnership - Wikipedia
    TPP: What is it and why does it matter? - BBC News
    http://trade.gov/fta/

    For those that want the short version then it involves the following countries:

    As of January 1, 2015, the United States has 14 FTAs in force with 20 countries. The United States is negotiating a regional FTA, the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), with Australia, Brunei Darussalam, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore and Vietnam.

    Notice that China is not one of those countries and now China will be delighted if Trump does what he says as this might just be what China needs to get closer trade ties to those countries.

    The interesting thing is now whether this will increase the possibility of both bringing back jobs to the USA and increasing employment or if prices will increase in the USA with reduced or more expensive trading.

    Is Walmart the place to go to buy "Made in the USA"?

    Of course the US is a huge market but I simply can't imagine most countries sitting back and letting Trump do what he wants or dictating conditions and rules. I know I can be a stubborn bastard at times but I'm mr. Tranquility compared to the leaders of some of those countries. I've got the feeling some will fight back so, for your sakes, I hope Trump has thought out carefully what he hopes to achieve long term. Things could get very messy.

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    Without starting a flame war, I have only this to say:

    What a candidate promises, and what they actually deliver, are two entirely different kettles of fish. Take as a given that they all lie, and as soon as they get elected, their only thought is to get re-elected while feathering their nest. My advice is to step back, take a deep breath, and wait and see. Tilting at windmills and bogeymen is a short trip to madness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wawoodman View Post
    Without starting a flame war, I have only this to say:

    What a candidate promises, and what they actually deliver, are two entirely different kettles of fish. Take as a given that they all lie, and as soon as they get elected, their only thought is to get re-elected while feathering their nest. My advice is to step back, take a deep breath, and wait and see. Tilting at windmills and bogeymen is a short trip to madness.
    Not much we can do except wait and see. I took that decision soon after I realized he'd won the election. I've got enough worries with Christmas coming up and haven't figured out yet what to buy my wife. She's thoughtful so she's writing a list. Damn, it's a long list so again IMPORTANT DECISIONS to be made LOL

    For those lucky enough to be married to a Danish female know it isn't about the cost, it's all about the thought behind it. Get that wrong though and it does become expensive.

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    He is back-pedaling so fast, he may need a 2nd reverse gear very soon.

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    Ahh yes the TPP. Trump pulling out stopping the agreement in it's tracks is a good thing.

    If our politicians signed such an agreement a hundred years ago they would be up on treason charges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RC99 View Post
    Ahh yes the TPP. Trump pulling out stopping the agreement in it's tracks is a good thing.

    If our politicians signed such an agreement a hundred years ago they would be up on treason charges.
    Not easy to comment unless we know why you think TPP is bad.

    Wonder too if the majority of Australians agree with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by juergenwt View Post
    He is back-pedaling so fast, he may need a 2nd reverse gear very soon.

    Well, he'll need a 4th reverse before any chance to catch-up with Hillary, and that's before election day.

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    How much did trump pay the PEOPLE he SCAMMED at
    that trump university?
    Wasn't it a out of court settlement?
    Were those people Americans?
    he cares about us? or his money?
    Gw

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    Maybe Trump is clandestinely targeted on trade agreements with North Korea . . .

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    Getting a little off track from the thread purpose but it isn't so much Trump that could be the problem but more the people he's surrounding himself with as "advisors".

    The way things are heading it could be Canada that builds a wall first and insists the US pays for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    For those lucky enough to be married to a Danish female know it isn't about the cost, it's all about the thought behind it. Get that wrong though and it does become expensive.
    What could possibly go wrong.....:

    Im In The Doghouse ! Help ! - YouTube

    So after years of 'throwing money' at the problem I finally broke down last year and gave the ultimate American spouse gift- I bought her a pistol- so far she hasn't used it on me so I must still be good to go..

    Just kidding- I did buy her a pistol but it was a beautiful antique H&R starter pistol for her retriever training.
    I haven't seen her fondling it and muttering "that bastard"....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    I haven't seen her fondling it and muttering "that bastard"....
    If I were you I'd worry about when you didn't see her muttering

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    Well first, yes I have bought Made in USA and Made in Canada items are Walmart, though they are few.

    I'd like an update to NAFTA, maybe something that would involve actual free trade and less restrictions and who knows what's buried in those 1000's of pages.

    I'm pretty sure TPP wasn't gonna be good for Canadians, and likely not very good for US either, so I'm ok with crushing that or at least making a deal that is more in our favor.

    Not overly impressed with the Canada/Euro deal either.... although at least that one is with somewhat economically equal players, but its a bit hard to talk free market/free trade when the main industries they talk of in the deal(wheat/dairy/poultry) are not free market, its completely regulated and prices inflated through quotas and other BS, and then there's the subsidy part... I only expect our food prices to raise higher, not that it ever does anything but that.

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    If Trump takes NATO's thumb off Europe, and drops the sanctions against Russia, it will certainly be VERY GOOD for European trade.

    Doubtless the spillover would also be good for N. American trade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SND View Post
    I'd like an update to NAFTA, maybe something that would involve actual free trade and less restrictions and who knows what's buried in those 1000's of pages.
    .
    there is room for improvement, there isn't duty anymore but in the area of the flow of goods,shipping and customs, it still stinks. If you're selling a $50,000 piece of equipment, $100 customs brokerage fee and $300 more for shipping doesn't matter.....but the day to day stuff, buying $500 worth from some vendor, it kills you. Makes everything more expensive in both directions.

    There is no reason for it to be like this - Digikey has proved that. Shipping here should not be any more than shipping a similar distance domestically. The cost of this to all of us, this excess drag on every transaction between the worlds largest trading partners is absurd. Digikey has figured it out, $9 (<$7 US) shipping and your stuff arrives the next day - from across the border. They do the taxes and the customs clearance automatically as part of it.

    What our governments should doing is to structure the rules so its easy for anyone to act like digikey. ie make it easy for any courier to provide easy and seamless service across the border. As stands right now, the customs function does F all other than collect sales tax (which the courier could do) and lets not delude ourselves on contraband.....you buy from a legitimate business, the collect and remit the tax on a coop system and UPS drives across the boarder without stopping just like they're going from NY to Pennsylvania - now that would be free trade

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    Quote Originally Posted by jCandlish View Post
    If Trump takes NATO's thumb off Europe, and drops the sanctions against Russia, it will certainly be VERY GOOD for European trade.

    Doubtless the spillover would also be good for N. American trade.
    How do you see that NATO is restricting growth in the EU?

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    1. NATO is a doubly needless expense. The money spent on NATO isn't just money wasted. It is money put to bad purpose.

    2. NATO is a mechanism that the USA uses to dictate to Europe what our internal policies should be. Policies in the best interest for Europe are often widely at odds with what NATO pursues.

    3. NATO, via the United States sanctions mechanism, extorts Western Europe not to trade with Eastern Europe. Eastern Europe is our natural trading partner. The sanctions regime has halted trillions of dollars worth of inter European trade.

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    Gordon,

    Your constant attempts to use this forum for anti-Trump trolling get tiring.

    The TPP, like all these multinational regional agreements, is about far more than just trade. If, like NAFTA it later turns out to not be an advantage to the U.S. it would be very difficult to amend due to the number of nations involved.

    Bilateral trade agreements on the other hand by involving only two nations can be renegotiated as necessary. This is a good thing as it provides more incentive to adhere to the agreement.

    Back when Ross Perot was running for President in 1992 he harshly criticized U.S. trade agreements and said that we were always put at a disadvantage because our incompetent and disorganized negotiators "gave away the farm". The situation has only gotten worse since then with entire U.S. industries losing out.

    Part of Perot's criticism was that the negotiators tended to be patronage jobs given to political hacks who were inexperienced and incompetent negotiators. Unlike the U.S. most countries send in highly skilled negotiators who work as a team and know exactly what they want before they sit down and usually leave with most of it. If Trump sends experienced business negotiators with a predefined agenda we too could get what we want, or at least something of value for what is given up.

    Too many people have accepted this nonsense of "Free Trade" which only benefits a handful of insiders. Back at the time of the American Revolution "free trader" was a name for smugglers who increased their profits by avoiding paying customs duties and thereby deprived the state of income. In England at the time penalties for free traders could include death by hanging.

    The major difference today is that the free traders are powerful corporations with the ear of government. The arrangements they lobby for destroy jobs, increase the imbalance of trade, and deprive the U.S. government of Constitutionally authorized revenue that could pay for much-needed infrastructure repairs among other things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jCandlish View Post
    1. NATO is a doubly needless expense. The money spent on NATO isn't just money wasted. It is money put to bad purpose.

    2. NATO is a mechanism that the USA uses to dictate to Europe what our internal policies should be. Policies in the best interest for Europe are often widely at odds with what NATO pursues.

    3. NATO, via the United States sanctions mechanism, extorts Western Europe not to trade with Eastern Europe. Eastern Europe is our natural trading partner. The sanctions regime has halted trillions of dollars worth of inter European trade.
    Are you a time traveler and live in the 20th century?

    OTOH Switzerland has been neutral for 2 centuries. Serious question: is there anything you are a member of?

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    Switzerland is a backdoor member of NATO though our comically named "Partnership for Peace".

    We have a "NATO" (in quotes, like Dr. Evil) contingent in Kosovo. Still there after all this time. And the PfP participates in joint NATO exercises.

    Frequently a thing is best described by what is does, rather than what it is called.


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