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  1. #2341
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    Did the director of the FBI just call Donald Trump a liar?

    when choosing labels of 'good' and 'bad' I think Warren is annoying as all get out but she is about 50 points higher on Santa's list than trumpski

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  3. #2342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    why almost? you even quote below that exact definition later. Anyway, you've agree to what matters, that socialism is state controlled means of production. Back fill whatever social philosophy you want, it does not matter....you are proposing a an economic model that has failed everywhere it has been tried. The reason I don't care about your politics or philosophy or anyone else's Marxist communist or socialist view, is that without a sound and strong economy, its academic, and clearly socialists economies don't work and fail.



    Greens law again? read. List of socialist states - Wikipedia




    Thank you, precisely. as for the second half, ideologies and theories, whatever floats your boat. Its an economic model and that's what I care about and have been consistent with. flap in the wind about political ideologies until the cows come home, it does not matters unless the system works economically.




    you can speak, but you'll still be wrong. Even the Prime Minister of Denmark says so lashing out at people that call his market based capitalist country socialist. Denmark is not a socialist state, it is a welfare state or social democracy, Their economy is not based on the means of production being state owned/controlled. Even nasty Gordo will tell you that.

    End of the day though, what you chose to call things is immaterial. What matters is that you have admitted that what you define yourself as, a socialist, means the state controlling or owning the means of production. All I needed to know.
    You have consistently argued that the Soviet Union is a socialist, rather than a communist state. There's a significant difference between the two. I've proven you to be wrong. But, I knew you wouldn't own up to the fact that you are full of shit.

    You also know that you have badly mischaracterized socialism as a purely economic institution. Must suck to have it demonstrated that again, you are full of shit.

    You say that socialism has been a failure wherever it's been tried. Again, an utterly stupid thing to say. It simply has no basis in fact. Hell, China is a communist state and it enjoys one of the most powerful economies on earth. They practically own the United States! I never cease to be amazed by your rhethoric. Can you really be so obtuse?

    I see no further point in our trying to have a discussion. When a guy says, "The earth is flat!" And steadfastly refuses to acknowledge all evidence to the contrary, there's really no helping him.

    You know you're wrong. It's a pity that you won't admit it.

    Good luck in your madness.

    I'm out!

    Squire

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    how about.. i dont want your shit, dont take my shit.. and if you want shit.. then go to work for it.

    fair enough?


    and your "bolding" of sentences his post is typical leftist bs known as cherry picking. dispute the entire argument and not a few sentences or dont bother.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorsports-X View Post
    how about.. i dont want your shit, dont take my shit.. and if you want shit.. then go to work for it.

    fair enough?


    and your "bolding" of sentences his post is typical leftist bs known as cherry picking. dispute the entire argument and not a few sentences or dont bother.
    That particular fallacy is by no means a 'leftist' fallacy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MJR7 View Post
    oldsquier, are you a follower of elizabeth warren or have you been putting in overtime googling her looking for something to post here? i think any sensible person would accept the opinion of one of her constituents, scottl, over someone living half a continent away (oklahoma) or half a planet away (finland). your signature says oklahoma but your pm location is finland. which is it? better be oklahoma what with all of your disparaging comments about the usa; heaven forbid you live outside the country.

    but anyway, we have trump for at least the next 4 years. get over it.

    oldsquier's comments on warren have to be the final straw; he has got to be a troll.
    To be a proper troll, I would have to be looking for people to argue with. With my political views, I don't have to look! I get plenty or unsolicited argument.

    Why would my location be important to you? What, you're just nosey, curious, what? Yes, I live in Oklahoma. But, Ive lived abroad too. On the profile page, my location is screwed-up as a result of a problem with Tapatalk. It took the default location, plugged it in, now it can't be changed. I've emailed Doug twice about it, but have had no reply. Is that allright with you?

    Now what about you? You live in the freaking asshole of the United States, Louisiana? If I'm too far removed from the scene - Massachusetts - to have an opinion about Elizabeth Warren, then what about you? You don't live their either. How stupid!

    I don't have to Google Warren to find out what she's up to. That's because I read a number of blogs and sites featuring political news such as Huffington Post. I also read Mother Jones, The New York Times, The Guardian, and the Wall Street Journal, The Economist, Current Affairs, the Washington Post, and the Straights Times out of Singapore.

    Reading....I know it's not taught in Louisiana schools, but you might give it a whirl sometime. You would be amazed what you can learn!

    Looks to me like you're the troll.

    Troll on....

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK
    Last edited by OldSquier; 03-20-2017 at 11:54 PM.

  7. #2346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorsports-X View Post
    how about.. i dont want your shit, dont take my shit.. and if you want shit.. then go to work for it.

    fair enough?


    and your "bolding" of sentences his post is typical leftist bs known as cherry picking. dispute the entire argument and not a few sentences or dont bother.


    How 'bout....you're full of shit!

    Fair enough?


    Squire

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    Oh, one other point, you admonish me to "work for it". You may rest assured that I worked my ass off from the time I was fourteen years old. At fifteen, I supported my mother, my grandmother and my girlfriend who moved-in with me before I turned sixteen. I put in decades of work before I retired. You guys on the right-wing are always making snarky comments about people on the left and work. You guys talk a lot about work, we on the left get 'er done!

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSquier View Post
    You have consistently argued that the Soviet Union is a socialist, rather than a communist state. There's a significant difference between the two. I've proven you to be wrong. But, I knew you wouldn't own up to the fact that you are full of shit.
    You can't be serious. Did you read the link? it clearly lists the country that are described as socialist. Most countries that can be described as socialist are also describe as communist. socialism is an economic model.

    To argue the USSR wasn't a socialist state is just incredible and really exposes you for what you are. Greens Law: anything is possible when you don't have a clue. Package that up with belligerence and your unsavory nature and you're a waste of my time.

    Weldon's been kind of quiet.....this guy can't be real.....A new under bridge sock puppet persona to mix it up a bit??

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSquier View Post
    You say that socialism has been a failure wherever it's been tried. Again, an utterly stupid thing to say. It simply has no basis in fact. Hell, China is a communist state and it enjoys one of the most powerful economies on earth. They practically own the United States! I never cease to be amazed by your rhethoric. Can you really be so obtuse?
    Is there a person on this board to whom its not obvious that China's ascendency was because they abandon socialism in large measure and let capitalism take off? Do ask for your money back on the poly sci degree

  11. #2350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    You can't be serious. Did you read the link? it clearly lists the country that are described as socialist. Most countries that can be described as socialist are also describe as communist. socialism is an economic model.

    To sit hear and argue the USSR wasn't a socialist state is just incredible. Can you be that stupid? Greens Law: anything is possible when you don't have a clue. Package that up with belligerence and childishness and you're a waste of my time.
    The fact of the matter is that there has NEVER been a true workers socialist state. In such a state, workers would democratically, and collectively, be responsible for running all functions of the state - politically, socially, environmentally, and economically. Work and production would be managed by workers themseves.

    Not the same same thing as Soviet Communism.

    Hard to say socialism has failed when it's never been tried. But, rest assured, it will be.

    What has passed for socialism up to now is a poor excuse for the real thing. The complexity of Marxist theory is clearly too much for you, so I'll stop now?

    Good luck. See ya.

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK

  12. #2351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorsports-X View Post
    how about.. i dont want your shit, dont take my shit.. and if you want shit.. then go to work for it.

    fair enough?


    and your "bolding" of sentences his post is typical leftist bs known as cherry picking. dispute the entire argument and not a few sentences or dont bother.
    Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSquier View Post
    Congratulations! Yours is the first idiotic post of the day! Well done!!!

    Squire
    I think you meant to say - "Damn, I have been shot down in flames and have absolutely no comeback, so I'll try the ad-hominem approach and see if I can skate by".

    Sorry, sunshine - I noticed. Not playing. Try a sensible rebuttal, if you can find one.

    PDW

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  16. #2353
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSquier View Post
    The fact of the matter is that there has NEVER been a true workers socialist state. In such a state, workers would democratically, and collectively, be responsible for running all functions of the state - politically, socially, environmentally, and economically. Work and production would be managed by workers themseves.
    I'll agree that there never has been a "true workers socialist state" by your definition.

    I also predict that there never will be one, because an essential prerequisite is the transformation of human nature to eliminate power-seeking, greed and selfishness.

    Good luck with that. The Christian religion started off with ideals like that and we know what happened there.

    Remember Stalin and the Ukraine? 'Democratic' vote to take all the surplus without payment to help others. Result - peasants don't produce any excess as there's nothing in it for them. Response - armed force to confiscate *all* the food just before winter, leaving the peasants to starve, followed by forced collectivisation of the land.

    We've *seen* what happens when people with high ideals like you butt heads with reality. You reach for a gun and things go to shit real fast.

    PDW

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  18. #2354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    Is there a person on this board to whom its not obvious that China's ascendency was because they abandon socialism in large measure and let capitalism take off? Do ask for your money back on the poly sci degree
    You never give up, do you?

    China is a communist market economy with capitalist features. I might have chosen my example better, but it IS a Communist State. There are many SEO'S (state owned enterprises). For Example....

    Bank of China
    Bank of Beijing
    Bank of Communications
    Baotou Steel
    Beijing capital International Airport Company
    Beijing Enterprises
    Beijing Hualuan Group
    Beijing North Star

    That's not halfway through the "B" section of the list. It's an enormous list of huge companies. You can find it on Wiki. Your claim that China is a purely Capitalist economy falls flat.

    I keep trying to end this nonsense.

    Adios,

    Squire

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  19. #2355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    Is there a person on this board to whom its not obvious that China's ascendency was because they abandon socialism in large measure and let capitalism take off? Do ask for your money back on the poly sci degree
    They adopted American Exceptionalism from the 1880s.
    Fuck the workers, show shines stuff, be protectionalist.
    Gun boat diplomacy locally.

  20. #2356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    They adopted American Exceptionalism from the 1880s.
    Fuck the workers, show shines stuff, be protectionalist.
    Gun boat diplomacy locally.
    you're judging, which is fine and I might not disagree with that judgement....I've seen first hand how harsh and environment it is. However doesn't change the fact it was a stalled socialist economy that took off after introducing a capitalism - free markets, private ownership and the profit motive. How well people are treated or the abuses of companies isn't a qualifier in the whether the system is capitalist or socialist....I don't think it was a bowl of cherries being a Russian worker either. In what economy would you want to be a blue collar guy?

    The fact of the matter is that there has NEVER been a true workers socialist state
    I see the rageaholic's has added qualify "true" to the socialist definition. While perhaps deserving of a B+ on grade 7 social sciences project, in the real world countries are described by the predominate economic engine. There is no doubt that much of Chinas' means of production are still state owned/controlled and therefor socialist, however there is also no doubt that their economic advancement resulted from embracing capitalism. That you or I don't like how a worker is treated doesn't alter the truth of that statement - that is a separate and meaningful discussion.

  21. #2357
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSquier View Post
    I keep trying to end this nonsense.
    Easily done. Use the "ignore" button

  22. #2358
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    I think you meant to say - "Damn, I have been shot down in flames and have absolutely no comeback, so I'll try the ad-hominem approach and see if I can skate by".

    Sorry, sunshine - I noticed. Not playing. Try a sensible rebuttal, if you can find one.

    PDW
    Did that. As usual, small minds just not up to the task of reading it, apparentently. And you, oh croaker of right-wing drivel, why don't you use some authoritative evidence for your positions? Ahhh....but of course. There is no authority!

    Just curious, but you and McGyver now a couple, or what? Or maybe you have your sights set on Scott?
    I understand, you have protective feelings, but here? In front of all these people?

    LOL × 10!

    Squire



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  23. #2359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Easily done. Use the "ignore" button
    Done and Done!US international trading with an insane president

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  24. #2360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Easily done. Use the "ignore" button
    ah, theres the yappy little lap dog now,


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