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  1. #2361
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSquier View Post
    At fifteen, I supported my mother, my grandmother and my girlfriend who moved-in with me before I turned sixteen.

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK
    So you were molesting a 13 year old girl. Wow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toolroomguy View Post
    So you were molesting a 13 year old girl. Wow.
    When a member sinks as low as you've just done I can only put you on "ignore". I hope the moderator throws you the fuck off the forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JNieman View Post
    Governments can protect you from infringement on rights, they do not enforce rights. I'm not trying to be a nitpicker but it's a very important distinction where words convoluted the topic.
    Yes, sorry, was trying to use fewer words. I seldom succeed at that

    To say our Constitution doesn't apply to non-citizens is wrong. It's not 100%/0% no, but our Government is not supposed to infringe upon many rights, other htan those we've specifically authorized them to do.
    So your claim is that people have a right to immigrate to the United States ?

    These arguments are ridiculous. Followed to their logical conclusion, the US could not have any immigration laws. Everyone's "rights" who were not admitted have been "violated." We have quotas based on nationality. Oh no, my rights were violated ! We "discriminate" against criminals and mentally-retarded people and people with certain diseases and a whole bunch of other reasons. We have quotas, period - oh no, my rights were violated ! US citizens have certain "rights" that Chinese, Japanese, Azerbaijian citizens do not but Oh no ! The Constitution applies everywhere in the world ! My rights were violated !

    This is all ludicrous. People outside the US and especially people who are not US citizens outside the US have, under the Constitution, zero none nada "legal rights." US laws do not apply to the rest of the world.

    You guys are weird.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toolroomguy View Post
    So you were molesting a 13 year old girl. Wow.
    OOOh, aren't we superior. Humanity has done this for ... ohh, 100,000 years or more ? How old are humans ? Little Richard, Elvis, Giovanni and whatever her name was, King John, the Big Bopper, 2/3 of humanity did this for centuries. But now you're going to get all righteous.

    Pffffft.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    Is there a person on this board to whom its not obvious that China's ascendency was because they abandon socialism in large measure and let capitalism take off? Do ask for your money back on the poly sci degree
    Yeah, there is. Right here. And the difference is, I actually live in China and have been here for ... twenty-three years ? twenty-four ?

    That stuff you speak is all crap. That's what your press likes to print so you can't be blamed for believing it but still, it's crap. China is the same as it was before it "went capitalist !" It's all just buried behind a pretty 1/16" thick veneer. It's ALL still a planned economy, top-down, basically the same as it was thirty years ago.

    What they did do was hide the appearances so that big-time kapitalists like the US could justify buying everything from the evil commies. So now we have "private" banks ... that follow the regulations set down by the evil commie government. EXACTLY. There is no private property, land is all publically owned, you can't actually buy a house, for instance. When they say "real estate prices in China" they mean the price of a seventy year lease. You never actually "own" it. After the seventy, no one knows. We haven't got that far yet, and after seeing how they can flip-flop on policies and promises, I'd rather buy an Egress from PT Barnum than property in China.

    It's a fraud. The place is NOT "capitalist" in any way, shape or form - except for the wallpaper. Appearances != reality.

    China got where it is by ripping off the American middle class, with the aid and assistance of Congress and the banksters you love. They have done nothing on their own, except outsmart you.

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  9. #2366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toolroomguy View Post
    So you were molesting a 13 year old girl. Wow.
    You filthy motherf=#/%r! You really are a dirtbag.

    Squire

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    Yeah, there is. Right here. And the difference is, I actually live in China and have been here for ... twenty-three years ? twenty-four ?

    That stuff you speak is all crap. That's what your press likes to print so you can't be blamed for believing it but still, it's crap. China is the same as it was before it "went capitalist !" It's all just buried behind a pretty 1/16" thick veneer. It's ALL still a planned economy, top-down, basically the same as it was thirty years ago.

    What they did do was hide the appearances so that big-time kapitalists like the US could justify buying everything from the evil commies. So now we have "private" banks ... that follow the regulations set down by the evil commie government. EXACTLY. There is no private property, land is all publically owned, you can't actually buy a house, for instance. When they say "real estate prices in China" they mean the price of a seventy year lease. You never actually "own" it. After the seventy, no one knows. We haven't got that far yet, and after seeing how they can flip-flop on policies and promises, I'd rather buy an Egress from PT Barnum than property in China.

    It's a fraud. The place is NOT "capitalist" in any way, shape or form - except for the wallpaper. Appearances != reality.

    China got where it is by ripping off the American middle class, with the aid and assistance of Congress and the banksters you love. They have done nothing on their own, except outsmart you.
    you took private property to be real estate lol,its not just that its any property of individuals - say owning a business. And an absence of real estate rights or poor protection of property isn't the defining feature. There is protection of property. When a truck leaves the plant with a shipment, the government has a rule of law and recognizes the ownership of the shipment. That's an example of protection of private property. btw, real estate is not that differently here structurally (although in practice it obviously is) with the principal of eminent domain.

    You live there, that's great, and I'd like to learn what you have say. But just living there, by itself, that tells me you're qualified to tell us what the weather is. As I've said, I know a lot is still socialist, and I have not tried to define how much. But a lot is capitalist and its the capitalist aspect that has accelerated they economy. Where are you there and what do you do there?

    Rather than just say crap, exactly what do disagree with? that there aren't private businesses? I've been there, had partnerships, and have an ongoing association with a large group manufacturing there for the domestic market.you encounter a lot of wealthy business men, many of who have invested in companies here and serve on boards etc.... if they're all fake, its a elaborate ruse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    Yeah, there is. Right here. And the difference is, I actually live in China and have been here for ... twenty-three years ? twenty-four ?

    That stuff you speak is all crap. That's what your press likes to print so you can't be blamed for believing it but still, it's crap. China is the same as it was before it "went capitalist !" It's all just buried behind a pretty 1/16" thick veneer. It's ALL still a planned economy, top-down, basically the same as it was thirty years ago.

    What they did do was hide the appearances so that big-time kapitalists like the US could justify buying everything from the evil commies. So now we have "private" banks ... that follow the regulations set down by the evil commie government. EXACTLY. There is no private property, land is all publically owned, you can't actually buy a house, for instance. When they say "real estate prices in China" they mean the price of a seventy year lease. You never actually "own" it. After the seventy, no one knows. We haven't got that far yet, and after seeing how they can flip-flop on policies and promises, I'd rather buy an Egress from PT Barnum than property in China.

    It's a fraud. The place is NOT "capitalist" in any way, shape or form - except for the wallpaper. Appearances != reality.

    China got where it is by ripping off the American middle class, with the aid and assistance of Congress and the banksters you love. They have done nothing on their own, except outsmart you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    too funny - you took private property to be real estate. You live there, that's great, you're qualified to tell us what the weather is like. As I've said a lot is still socialist, and I have not tried to define how much. But a lot is capitalist and its the capitalist aspect that has accelerated they economy. Where are you there and what do you do there?

    Rather than just say crap, exactly what do disagree with? that there aren't private businesses? I've been there, had partnerships, and have an ongoing association with a large group manufacturing there for the domestic market.you encounter a lot of wealthy business men, many of who have invested in companies here and serve on boards etc.... if they're all fake, its a elaborate ruse.
    Nothing is privately owned when it can be taken.
    And nothing in China can't be taken, then you are shot in the head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MJR7 View Post
    oldsquier, are you a follower of elizabeth warren or have you been putting in overtime googling her looking for something to post here? i think any sensible person would accept the opinion of one of her constituents, scottl, over someone living half a continent away . . .
    A sensible person, regardless of where they live, might look to the data. Most actual Massachusetts residents like Warren, judging by those who chose her over Scott Brown for the Senate. National news at the time.

    No one of us speaks for our entire state. Heck, I can't even speak for my entire household, now just my wife and I.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    WOW!

    Around here she's known as Whacko Warren and even many traditional Democrats view her as an embarrassing disgrace. She's done NOTHING to keep her promises about reining in the financial industry abuses.
    Well now Scotti, I don't know how you define "around here," but I can only guess it means within your property boundaries.

    She did manage to get elected with a majority of the popular vote, which is more than our President can say.

    Now I don't think she should run for President. She has the warmth and charm of a law school professor, which is what she was. She has no charisma and as a result is almost certainly unelectable--we don't much like bookworms as Presidents, unless they balance it with something that gives them popular appeal. Maybe she should take up golf, who knows.

    But she knows her stuff, and has been doing ok as our senator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    Yeah, there is. Right here. And the difference is, I actually live in China and have been here for ... twenty-three years ? twenty-four ?

    That stuff you speak is all crap. That's what your press likes to print so you can't be blamed for believing it but still, it's crap. China is the same as it was before it "went capitalist !" It's all just buried behind a pretty 1/16" thick veneer. It's ALL still a planned economy, top-down, basically the same as it was thirty years ago.

    What they did do was hide the appearances so that big-time kapitalists like the US could justify buying everything from the evil commies. So now we have "private" banks ... that follow the regulations set down by the evil commie government. EXACTLY. There is no private property, land is all publically owned, you can't actually buy a house, for instance. When they say "real estate prices in China" they mean the price of a seventy year lease. You never actually "own" it. After the seventy, no one knows. We haven't got that far yet, and after seeing how they can flip-flop on policies and promises, I'd rather buy an Egress from PT Barnum than property in China.

    It's a fraud. The place is NOT "capitalist" in any way, shape or form - except for the wallpaper. Appearances != reality.

    China got where it is by ripping off the American middle class, with the aid and assistance of Congress and the banksters you love. They have done nothing on their own, except outsmart you.
    Sea Moss,

    Don't waste your time. McGyver imagines he is the Compendium of All Human Knowledge. Never mind that you live in China, he believes he knows more about the place - indeed everyplace - than anyone else on the planet. He would argue communism with Mao Zedong and tell him he didn't know what he was talking about. A real-estate flunky and B-school clown, he suffers from a grotesquely inflated self-concept. Truly, I think he would argue with Jesus himself. He's so enamored with Capitalism, he actually thinks China is a bastion of capitalism. Unbelievable!

    Just sayin,

    Squire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    Nothing is privately owned when it can be taken.
    And nothing in China can't be taken, then you are shot in the head.
    Stop being daft. A person is more likely to get shot in the USA than in China.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    Yeah, there is. Right here. And the difference is, I actually live in China and have been here for ... twenty-three years ? twenty-four ?
    I'll ignore the rest of your post and ask "Where in China do you live?". Writing "CHINA" as your location is about as informative as writing "USA" or "Europe".

    Might also be relevant to know what you do to earn your living. "Machinist" as in working with Chinese machinists? Maybe you are of Chinese origin?

    From your profile:
    About SeaMoss
    Country:CHINA
    State / Province:not United States or Canada
    Interests:sex
    Occupation:machinist

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I'll ignore the rest of your post and ask "Where in China do you live?". Writing "CHINA" as your location is about as informative as writing "USA" or "Europe".

    Might also be relevant to know what you do to earn your living. "Machinist" as in working with Chinese machinists? Maybe you are of Chinese origin?

    From your profile:
    About SeaMoss
    Country:CHINA
    State / Province:not United States or Canada
    Interests:sex
    Occupation:machinist
    Some things about him remind me of "Monarchist" Bill, who has changed names before.

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    Speaking of immigration problems- I have woken up last couple of morning to find a huge Palmetto Bug (shorthand for big ass roach) crawling around the living room.

    What the hell- first time I have seen these as far north as DC...

    More devastation wrought by Global Warming?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Farmer View Post
    Some things about him remind me of "Monarchist" Bill, who has changed names before.
    Horrible to think you might be right. Talk about split personality.

    Have friends in China that sent me a picture of him

    troll.6.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I'll ignore the rest of your post and ask "Where in China do you live?". Writing "CHINA" as your location is about as informative as writing "USA" or "Europe".

    Might also be relevant to know what you do to earn your living. "Machinist" as in working with Chinese machinists? Maybe you are of Chinese origin?
    Dual answer, partly to shut up the person who thinks he Knows All About China because "we have a relationship with a company there", and partly since you asked politely ...

    1992 - installed, first articled (can you make a verb out of that ?), trained, &c &c a Sabre 1250 and K&T 800 w/D control out in Shaanxi. Closed city at the time, F.E.C., smuggled me into the county, lived in the factory, definitely an eye-opener. AC used to vary by 60 volts during the course of the day. First time I read that I was, "What is this ? Is the meter bad or something ?" No, trusty Fluke was right on. They were like, "Yeah, of course. Electricity doesn't do that in your country ?"

    1993-4 - house honky in two joint ventures in Haerbin, one making rear ends for five ton trucks, one making transmissions for dinky little vans - called mian bao che, "bread trucks" because they look like a little loaf of bread. They don't exist anymore. The truck rear ends were three 116 Gleasons, sharpener, lapper, tester, and a 22 rougher and finisher. Tranny factory our gift to the jv was two KT 200's, D controls, a Mitutoyo cmm (second most accurate one in Heilongjiang county at that time, after the test bureau's own, of course. Or so they said), some other little stuff. Mostly I got the K&T's running and the CMM qualified. Played Foreign Face at the spiral bevels jv, they did the 116's mostly but they were scared of the 22's (with good reason) so I did that. And proved their lies about "accuracy" were just that, using the CMM, but didn't matter anyhow, most US suppliers learned a long time ago that the 10% holdback for "accuracy" will never be paid, so you just jack up the price 10%. Trained people, fought off a blatant takeover by the jv "partner", had ... adventures.

    Best part about the tranny shop was bringing the K&T's into the building. It was snowing - December in Haerbin is chilly - so they set them on these sled sort of things and pulled them into the shop with shaggy little ponies. Wish I had a video of that, K&T's from a McDonnell-Douglas FMS pulled behind a team of horses It had some pretty cool software on a stack of tapes that came up to my chest. Fanuc et al suck donkey balls compared to the D. That's a nice control.

    Too bad I was still morally undamaged then, in those days you could get laid by looking across the room. We were eating dinner one night, I said something like, "Wa, that girl is cute" and the secretary immediately said "you want that woman ? Wait a second" and immediately thereafter the girl was sitting in my lap. 'No, wait, umm, I didn't mean ..."

    Stupid me And no, Mrs Chiang, it's not true ...

    Then my guy did a jv with the Shandong highway department, I knew better by then but allowed him to use this honky face for the paperwork and the ceremonies and all that.

    1996-ish put in a 24" straight bevel generator and 56" planer (Gleason) at another Chinese company. Straight install-and-train job.

    1998-ish taught a US wofe how to measure and cut gears. They were way off-track, seem to be doing better now.

    Some stuff after that, I forget what it was. Visited some smugglers down south who wanted to set up a wheel factory, but they never did. They knew how to party tho.

    2001-2002, Bush burned the Reichstag, I saw the handwriting and moved full-time.

    Set up a design department using Pro/E for a cast aluminum automotive wheel company, then got stuck trying to set up networking and quality control in their new joint venture plating operation in Wuxi. Nightmare. Knew better. The Chinese for joint venture can be directly translated as "demons in Hell giving you power enema with red-hot poker." Got out.

    Went to a startup for a Michigan or Wisconsin place that was screwing over their employees in Arizona. They had a twenty-five guy shop making wheel molds, the plan was open a shop in Kunshan then screw the US employees. Which is exactly what they did. I fixed the air, electric, networking, and whatever else they managed to screw up there. Which was pretty much everything. Spindle on a big vertical Awea chattered, they wanted to replace it for $10,000, I reset the preload on the bearings and awaaaay we went. Air lines were flat, dryer in the wrong place, wiring all wrong, pretty much everything was an abortion. They were paying five times what they should for electricity becasue they couldn't figure out a spreadsheet - it's not just graph paper ! - and couldn't talk to the electricity bureau. Donkeys. Did not increase my respect for bankster-type "capitalists." That place is still in business (in the US), ******** Global - all these shyster places say "global" in the name, it makes their peepee hard - but I have been told if their shop were not union, it would have been bankrupt several times over. The head guy is a dick, the underhead guy is a dick, pretty much the entire management team is a bunch of dicks. And stupid. Cunning but stupid. Hope they rot in hell, the guys from Arizona were good, smart, talented, hard workers.

    "Why doesn't anyone want to be a machinist anymore ?"

    Oh, let me think .....

    Got kicked out of there after it was all running okay (was expected, at least I didn't have to come over and train people to take my job, which is what a bunch or their guys got to do) ...

    Came to Skankhai, been here ever since. Set up a legally registered company, we buy, sell, consult, train, import export, whatever. Don't like to admit I live in Skank, don't like it very much, the food is the worst in China and the people may be the snottiest but what can ya do ? The Real Boss insists.

    Some wind energy planetaries and automotive press double-helicals in there somewhere, 3 meter gear grinders and 3 to 6 meter Maags. Between the two of us we were selling about a million dollars a year of stuff into China, which should have put us on a Forbes 500 list on a per-capita basis as exporters, but nobody even noticed S.O. did splurge on a Cartier watch tho, so there is that.

    Everything that I know about, I only know because we have done it. Personally. No second-hand stories, no saw it in Reader's Digest. Pull 000 wire through undersized conduit 12 feet off the ground in August, 100* F and 200% humidity weather, sit in the bottom of the tub pouring hot water from a thermos over myself to wash cuz the building was too antique to have hot water, have the Electricity Bureau tell the factory Leader he was going to jail if he said even one more word, when he tried to steal our shop (but of course over time they did anyhow)... just today spent the morning at the Commercial Bureau trying to find out how to change the company registration so we can do more stuff. No sit-on-the-ass, regurgitate some stupid story by Orville Schell (total ignorant jerk, by the way) knowledge here. Dirty hands kinda people, that's us. (Okay, have to admit the s.o. would do things different but oh well. She'll get her turn soon enough.)

    So whoever it was earlier pontificating ? Umm, I think I have a decent idea of how China operates. And it ain't kapitalist.

    All truth, have photos and docs. So the armchair capitalists might want to think a moment before making unfounded statements .... it's not like anything stops those guys tho, so what the heck. All I can do is put up the truth for people with eyes to see and judge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSquier View Post
    S

    Don't waste your time. McGyver imagines he is the Compendium of All Human Knowledge. Never mind that you live in China, he believes he knows more about the place - indeed everyplace - than anyone else on the planet.
    I suppose it must look that way when your knowledge is limited to what you can see from your back stoop.

    Someone who's lived there can provide insight and knowledge I'd never otherwise get. - insight into day to day life, how the country functions, the culture, people,....its a long list. I would like to hear about living there.

    However there are things that only a mental midget would insist you had to live there to have knowledge of. I gave illustrative examples but they didn't register. I'll try again. Imagine you spent the next year making a comparative study on, say, on global monetary policies. By your logic, my yoga instructor sister would just automatically know more about monetary policy in Canada than you because she lives there. See how stupid that sounds?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Speaking of immigration problems- I have woken up last couple of morning to find a huge Palmetto Bug (shorthand for big ass roach) crawling around the living room.

    What the hell- first time I have seen these as far north as DC...

    More devastation wrought by Global Warming?
    I think it's a heat and humidity thing. DC has both. Seems like the doggone things can thrive in any hot, humid environment. It's still pretty cool, though winter is just about over. Still, I would think it too chilly for them to be active. But they're tough bastards, that's for sure.

    Good luck with 'em. Maybe buy some extremely toxic bug spray and kick their ass!

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    However there are things that only a mental midget would insist you had to live there to have knowledge of.
    I didn't mean to say that you were crap, but what you believe is crap, since it is fed to people in the US by a media with an agenda. If a person is going to insist they "understand China" because they have visited three factories and had six gan bei dinners followed by ktv with a bunch of drunks, well ... sorry. Them ktv girls were good tho, yes ?

    There is SO MUCH that is hidden here. It's not as if it's hidden on purpose, but somehow it just comes out that way. Even the people who live here don't know how to do most things, since you can't know until you try it. And there are so many things that are not out in the open. Do you know what a hukou is ? And how it affects a person's life ?

    When you do try something, the relevant bureau will not tell you what you need to know, they feed you one step at a time. You go to do something you think you know how to do but no, that's wrong. You need this other paper (that doesn't exist, e.g. the US does not have a Certificate of No Criminal Record. So how do you get something that doesn't exist ? Most people end up making a fake one. And since the people behind the counter could care less and know nothing, they take the fake certificate happily because that's what it says they need and you go on to the next document that doesn't exist that they could have told you about last week but nooo, you didn't ask - about something you didn't know existed !

    It's infuriating but oh well. This is not capitalism. Everything is like this. And you can do nothing without the proper certificate. Sure, there are private banks and private businesses. And they do exactly what the government tells them they can do. Or cheat, which is sort of the national hobby, but that doesn't mean the system itself is "capitalist"

    Businessmen ? You are joking. I am tempted to say there are none, but this is a country of 1.2 billion people. There must be one somewhere. But the rest of them ? The ones you think are businessmen ? They (or more commonly now their dad) sold grandma's grave site to Seagate for a hard disk factory twenty years ago and they parlayed that through corrupt officials into many millions. Or they stole the worker's pension funds. Or they conned the local government into "investing" into some scheme that made them very wealthy but lost the country eighty-six million dollars but they got to move to Houston or Riverside and they don't care now. They are only "investors" because they stole huge amounts of money and now have to hide it. The China government these days is sending kidnap teams around the world to bring some of these crooks back. This is A-Okay by me and most other people here, but I guess Ozztralia is sort of upset by it

    It's an extreme temptation to say they are all crooks. I won't, because gross generalizations are always wrong ... but it's real real close.

    Then when people talk about the "market value of the yuan" it makes me laugh hysterically. You can't exchange it !! Exchanging currencies is very tightly controlled. There is no "market" if you can't buy or sell. You can swap a hundred bucks at the airport for rmb but try getting that back six months later ! And biggger amounts ? Unless you are Shell, it's a nightmare.

    A couple years ago Volkswagen gave all their employees twelve-months pay as a Spring Festival bonus. Did you read about that in the US ? Of course not. Was it because they are generous ? of course not. VW could not take the money out of the country, they were going to pay it one way or another, so they were pressured to give it to the employees as a bonus. But the underlying thing was, that money was not going to leave the country.

    Companies think, "Oh well, if things get too expensive here I will just take my factory and go home."

    Ha ha. You can't. You can personally go home but sorry, the factory stays. The power plant directly across the street from the Pratt & Whitney factory - joint venture with US company. Plant got finished, ribbon cut, started up, made electricity, thank you very much this joint venture is closed you may leave now. Capitalism ? You read about this in the US press, did you ?

    Nothing is what it looks like and you cannot find out until you try it. Then you find that sure, on paper you can do X or Y but in reality, you need a Permission from God Certificate and he's on vacation. Just today we were told that to do what we wanted we needed a certificate to prove that our US partner would be in business two years from now. Do you have any idea where to get one of those ?

    Then if you do get something done, if you are successful it will be taken away. (But no, they don't shoot people. Not unless you are an actual criminal. Not like the US where you get shot in the back for being black.)

    I could go on at length ... but a top-down, very tightly controlled planned economy where a few people get very wealthy by exploiting the situation is not capitalism.

    Or maybe it really is ... in which case you are correct. But that's not the "capitalism" which people in the US think of.

    Come to think of it tho, you may have a very valid point. It's maybe that your understanding of the word capitalism is in error. Or what I think your meaning is. Or, even more likely I am wrong. Do you adhere to the Karl Marx and Malcolm X definition of capitalism ? if so, then we actually agree.

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