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  1. #2501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    You can't be serious. Did you read the link? it clearly lists the country that are described as socialist. Most countries that can be described as socialist are also describe as communist. socialism is an economic model.

    To sit hear and argue the USSR wasn't a socialist state is just incredible. Can you be that stupid? Greens Law: anything is possible when you don't have a clue. Package that up with belligerence and childishness and you're a waste of my time.
    The fact of the matter is that there has NEVER been a true workers socialist state. In such a state, workers would democratically, and collectively, be responsible for running all functions of the state - politically, socially, environmentally, and economically. Work and production would be managed by workers themseves.

    Not the same same thing as Soviet Communism.

    Hard to say socialism has failed when it's never been tried. But, rest assured, it will be.

    What has passed for socialism up to now is a poor excuse for the real thing. The complexity of Marxist theory is clearly too much for you, so I'll stop now?

    Good luck. See ya.

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorsports-X View Post
    how about.. i dont want your shit, dont take my shit.. and if you want shit.. then go to work for it.

    fair enough?


    and your "bolding" of sentences his post is typical leftist bs known as cherry picking. dispute the entire argument and not a few sentences or dont bother.
    Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy

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  4. #2503
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSquier View Post
    Congratulations! Yours is the first idiotic post of the day! Well done!!!

    Squire
    I think you meant to say - "Damn, I have been shot down in flames and have absolutely no comeback, so I'll try the ad-hominem approach and see if I can skate by".

    Sorry, sunshine - I noticed. Not playing. Try a sensible rebuttal, if you can find one.

    PDW

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  6. #2504
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSquier View Post
    The fact of the matter is that there has NEVER been a true workers socialist state. In such a state, workers would democratically, and collectively, be responsible for running all functions of the state - politically, socially, environmentally, and economically. Work and production would be managed by workers themseves.
    I'll agree that there never has been a "true workers socialist state" by your definition.

    I also predict that there never will be one, because an essential prerequisite is the transformation of human nature to eliminate power-seeking, greed and selfishness.

    Good luck with that. The Christian religion started off with ideals like that and we know what happened there.

    Remember Stalin and the Ukraine? 'Democratic' vote to take all the surplus without payment to help others. Result - peasants don't produce any excess as there's nothing in it for them. Response - armed force to confiscate *all* the food just before winter, leaving the peasants to starve, followed by forced collectivisation of the land.

    We've *seen* what happens when people with high ideals like you butt heads with reality. You reach for a gun and things go to shit real fast.

    PDW

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  8. #2505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    Is there a person on this board to whom its not obvious that China's ascendency was because they abandon socialism in large measure and let capitalism take off? Do ask for your money back on the poly sci degree
    You never give up, do you?

    China is a communist market economy with capitalist features. I might have chosen my example better, but it IS a Communist State. There are many SEO'S (state owned enterprises). For Example....

    Bank of China
    Bank of Beijing
    Bank of Communications
    Baotou Steel
    Beijing capital International Airport Company
    Beijing Enterprises
    Beijing Hualuan Group
    Beijing North Star

    That's not halfway through the "B" section of the list. It's an enormous list of huge companies. You can find it on Wiki. Your claim that China is a purely Capitalist economy falls flat.

    I keep trying to end this nonsense.

    Adios,

    Squire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    Is there a person on this board to whom its not obvious that China's ascendency was because they abandon socialism in large measure and let capitalism take off? Do ask for your money back on the poly sci degree
    They adopted American Exceptionalism from the 1880s.
    Fuck the workers, show shines stuff, be protectionalist.
    Gun boat diplomacy locally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    They adopted American Exceptionalism from the 1880s.
    Fuck the workers, show shines stuff, be protectionalist.
    Gun boat diplomacy locally.
    you're judging, which is fine and I might not disagree with that judgement....I've seen first hand how harsh and environment it is. However doesn't change the fact it was a stalled socialist economy that took off after introducing a capitalism - free markets, private ownership and the profit motive. How well people are treated or the abuses of companies isn't a qualifier in the whether the system is capitalist or socialist....I don't think it was a bowl of cherries being a Russian worker either. In what economy would you want to be a blue collar guy?

    The fact of the matter is that there has NEVER been a true workers socialist state
    I see the rageaholic's has added qualify "true" to the socialist definition. While perhaps deserving of a B+ on grade 7 social sciences project, in the real world countries are described by the predominate economic engine. There is no doubt that much of Chinas' means of production are still state owned/controlled and therefor socialist, however there is also no doubt that their economic advancement resulted from embracing capitalism. That you or I don't like how a worker is treated doesn't alter the truth of that statement - that is a separate and meaningful discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSquier View Post
    I keep trying to end this nonsense.
    Easily done. Use the "ignore" button

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    I think you meant to say - "Damn, I have been shot down in flames and have absolutely no comeback, so I'll try the ad-hominem approach and see if I can skate by".

    Sorry, sunshine - I noticed. Not playing. Try a sensible rebuttal, if you can find one.

    PDW
    Did that. As usual, small minds just not up to the task of reading it, apparentently. And you, oh croaker of right-wing drivel, why don't you use some authoritative evidence for your positions? Ahhh....but of course. There is no authority!

    Just curious, but you and McGyver now a couple, or what? Or maybe you have your sights set on Scott?
    I understand, you have protective feelings, but here? In front of all these people?

    LOL × 10!

    Squire



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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Easily done. Use the "ignore" button
    Done and Done!US international trading with an insane president

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Easily done. Use the "ignore" button
    ah, theres the yappy little lap dog now,


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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSquier View Post
    At fifteen, I supported my mother, my grandmother and my girlfriend who moved-in with me before I turned sixteen.

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK
    So you were molesting a 13 year old girl. Wow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toolroomguy View Post
    So you were molesting a 13 year old girl. Wow.
    When a member sinks as low as you've just done I can only put you on "ignore". I hope the moderator throws you the fuck off the forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JNieman View Post
    Governments can protect you from infringement on rights, they do not enforce rights. I'm not trying to be a nitpicker but it's a very important distinction where words convoluted the topic.
    Yes, sorry, was trying to use fewer words. I seldom succeed at that

    To say our Constitution doesn't apply to non-citizens is wrong. It's not 100%/0% no, but our Government is not supposed to infringe upon many rights, other htan those we've specifically authorized them to do.
    So your claim is that people have a right to immigrate to the United States ?

    These arguments are ridiculous. Followed to their logical conclusion, the US could not have any immigration laws. Everyone's "rights" who were not admitted have been "violated." We have quotas based on nationality. Oh no, my rights were violated ! We "discriminate" against criminals and mentally-retarded people and people with certain diseases and a whole bunch of other reasons. We have quotas, period - oh no, my rights were violated ! US citizens have certain "rights" that Chinese, Japanese, Azerbaijian citizens do not but Oh no ! The Constitution applies everywhere in the world ! My rights were violated !

    This is all ludicrous. People outside the US and especially people who are not US citizens outside the US have, under the Constitution, zero none nada "legal rights." US laws do not apply to the rest of the world.

    You guys are weird.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toolroomguy View Post
    So you were molesting a 13 year old girl. Wow.
    OOOh, aren't we superior. Humanity has done this for ... ohh, 100,000 years or more ? How old are humans ? Little Richard, Elvis, Giovanni and whatever her name was, King John, the Big Bopper, 2/3 of humanity did this for centuries. But now you're going to get all righteous.

    Pffffft.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    Is there a person on this board to whom its not obvious that China's ascendency was because they abandon socialism in large measure and let capitalism take off? Do ask for your money back on the poly sci degree
    Yeah, there is. Right here. And the difference is, I actually live in China and have been here for ... twenty-three years ? twenty-four ?

    That stuff you speak is all crap. That's what your press likes to print so you can't be blamed for believing it but still, it's crap. China is the same as it was before it "went capitalist !" It's all just buried behind a pretty 1/16" thick veneer. It's ALL still a planned economy, top-down, basically the same as it was thirty years ago.

    What they did do was hide the appearances so that big-time kapitalists like the US could justify buying everything from the evil commies. So now we have "private" banks ... that follow the regulations set down by the evil commie government. EXACTLY. There is no private property, land is all publically owned, you can't actually buy a house, for instance. When they say "real estate prices in China" they mean the price of a seventy year lease. You never actually "own" it. After the seventy, no one knows. We haven't got that far yet, and after seeing how they can flip-flop on policies and promises, I'd rather buy an Egress from PT Barnum than property in China.

    It's a fraud. The place is NOT "capitalist" in any way, shape or form - except for the wallpaper. Appearances != reality.

    China got where it is by ripping off the American middle class, with the aid and assistance of Congress and the banksters you love. They have done nothing on their own, except outsmart you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toolroomguy View Post
    So you were molesting a 13 year old girl. Wow.
    You filthy motherf=#/%r! You really are a dirtbag.

    Squire

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    Yeah, there is. Right here. And the difference is, I actually live in China and have been here for ... twenty-three years ? twenty-four ?

    That stuff you speak is all crap. That's what your press likes to print so you can't be blamed for believing it but still, it's crap. China is the same as it was before it "went capitalist !" It's all just buried behind a pretty 1/16" thick veneer. It's ALL still a planned economy, top-down, basically the same as it was thirty years ago.

    What they did do was hide the appearances so that big-time kapitalists like the US could justify buying everything from the evil commies. So now we have "private" banks ... that follow the regulations set down by the evil commie government. EXACTLY. There is no private property, land is all publically owned, you can't actually buy a house, for instance. When they say "real estate prices in China" they mean the price of a seventy year lease. You never actually "own" it. After the seventy, no one knows. We haven't got that far yet, and after seeing how they can flip-flop on policies and promises, I'd rather buy an Egress from PT Barnum than property in China.

    It's a fraud. The place is NOT "capitalist" in any way, shape or form - except for the wallpaper. Appearances != reality.

    China got where it is by ripping off the American middle class, with the aid and assistance of Congress and the banksters you love. They have done nothing on their own, except outsmart you.
    you took private property to be real estate lol,its not just that its any property of individuals - say owning a business. And an absence of real estate rights or poor protection of property isn't the defining feature. There is protection of property. When a truck leaves the plant with a shipment, the government has a rule of law and recognizes the ownership of the shipment. That's an example of protection of private property. btw, real estate is not that differently here structurally (although in practice it obviously is) with the principal of eminent domain.

    You live there, that's great, and I'd like to learn what you have say. But just living there, by itself, that tells me you're qualified to tell us what the weather is. As I've said, I know a lot is still socialist, and I have not tried to define how much. But a lot is capitalist and its the capitalist aspect that has accelerated they economy. Where are you there and what do you do there?

    Rather than just say crap, exactly what do disagree with? that there aren't private businesses? I've been there, had partnerships, and have an ongoing association with a large group manufacturing there for the domestic market.you encounter a lot of wealthy business men, many of who have invested in companies here and serve on boards etc.... if they're all fake, its a elaborate ruse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    Yeah, there is. Right here. And the difference is, I actually live in China and have been here for ... twenty-three years ? twenty-four ?

    That stuff you speak is all crap. That's what your press likes to print so you can't be blamed for believing it but still, it's crap. China is the same as it was before it "went capitalist !" It's all just buried behind a pretty 1/16" thick veneer. It's ALL still a planned economy, top-down, basically the same as it was thirty years ago.

    What they did do was hide the appearances so that big-time kapitalists like the US could justify buying everything from the evil commies. So now we have "private" banks ... that follow the regulations set down by the evil commie government. EXACTLY. There is no private property, land is all publically owned, you can't actually buy a house, for instance. When they say "real estate prices in China" they mean the price of a seventy year lease. You never actually "own" it. After the seventy, no one knows. We haven't got that far yet, and after seeing how they can flip-flop on policies and promises, I'd rather buy an Egress from PT Barnum than property in China.

    It's a fraud. The place is NOT "capitalist" in any way, shape or form - except for the wallpaper. Appearances != reality.

    China got where it is by ripping off the American middle class, with the aid and assistance of Congress and the banksters you love. They have done nothing on their own, except outsmart you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    too funny - you took private property to be real estate. You live there, that's great, you're qualified to tell us what the weather is like. As I've said a lot is still socialist, and I have not tried to define how much. But a lot is capitalist and its the capitalist aspect that has accelerated they economy. Where are you there and what do you do there?

    Rather than just say crap, exactly what do disagree with? that there aren't private businesses? I've been there, had partnerships, and have an ongoing association with a large group manufacturing there for the domestic market.you encounter a lot of wealthy business men, many of who have invested in companies here and serve on boards etc.... if they're all fake, its a elaborate ruse.
    Nothing is privately owned when it can be taken.
    And nothing in China can't be taken, then you are shot in the head.

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  28. #2520
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJR7 View Post
    oldsquier, are you a follower of elizabeth warren or have you been putting in overtime googling her looking for something to post here? i think any sensible person would accept the opinion of one of her constituents, scottl, over someone living half a continent away . . .
    A sensible person, regardless of where they live, might look to the data. Most actual Massachusetts residents like Warren, judging by those who chose her over Scott Brown for the Senate. National news at the time.

    No one of us speaks for our entire state. Heck, I can't even speak for my entire household, now just my wife and I.

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