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  1. #2521
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    WOW!

    Around here she's known as Whacko Warren and even many traditional Democrats view her as an embarrassing disgrace. She's done NOTHING to keep her promises about reining in the financial industry abuses.
    Well now Scotti, I don't know how you define "around here," but I can only guess it means within your property boundaries.

    She did manage to get elected with a majority of the popular vote, which is more than our President can say.

    Now I don't think she should run for President. She has the warmth and charm of a law school professor, which is what she was. She has no charisma and as a result is almost certainly unelectable--we don't much like bookworms as Presidents, unless they balance it with something that gives them popular appeal. Maybe she should take up golf, who knows.

    But she knows her stuff, and has been doing ok as our senator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    Yeah, there is. Right here. And the difference is, I actually live in China and have been here for ... twenty-three years ? twenty-four ?

    That stuff you speak is all crap. That's what your press likes to print so you can't be blamed for believing it but still, it's crap. China is the same as it was before it "went capitalist !" It's all just buried behind a pretty 1/16" thick veneer. It's ALL still a planned economy, top-down, basically the same as it was thirty years ago.

    What they did do was hide the appearances so that big-time kapitalists like the US could justify buying everything from the evil commies. So now we have "private" banks ... that follow the regulations set down by the evil commie government. EXACTLY. There is no private property, land is all publically owned, you can't actually buy a house, for instance. When they say "real estate prices in China" they mean the price of a seventy year lease. You never actually "own" it. After the seventy, no one knows. We haven't got that far yet, and after seeing how they can flip-flop on policies and promises, I'd rather buy an Egress from PT Barnum than property in China.

    It's a fraud. The place is NOT "capitalist" in any way, shape or form - except for the wallpaper. Appearances != reality.

    China got where it is by ripping off the American middle class, with the aid and assistance of Congress and the banksters you love. They have done nothing on their own, except outsmart you.
    Sea Moss,

    Don't waste your time. McGyver imagines he is the Compendium of All Human Knowledge. Never mind that you live in China, he believes he knows more about the place - indeed everyplace - than anyone else on the planet. He would argue communism with Mao Zedong and tell him he didn't know what he was talking about. A real-estate flunky and B-school clown, he suffers from a grotesquely inflated self-concept. Truly, I think he would argue with Jesus himself. He's so enamored with Capitalism, he actually thinks China is a bastion of capitalism. Unbelievable!

    Just sayin,

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    Nothing is privately owned when it can be taken.
    And nothing in China can't be taken, then you are shot in the head.
    Stop being daft. A person is more likely to get shot in the USA than in China.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    Yeah, there is. Right here. And the difference is, I actually live in China and have been here for ... twenty-three years ? twenty-four ?
    I'll ignore the rest of your post and ask "Where in China do you live?". Writing "CHINA" as your location is about as informative as writing "USA" or "Europe".

    Might also be relevant to know what you do to earn your living. "Machinist" as in working with Chinese machinists? Maybe you are of Chinese origin?

    From your profile:
    About SeaMoss
    Country:CHINA
    State / Province:not United States or Canada
    Interests:sex
    Occupation:machinist

  6. #2525
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I'll ignore the rest of your post and ask "Where in China do you live?". Writing "CHINA" as your location is about as informative as writing "USA" or "Europe".

    Might also be relevant to know what you do to earn your living. "Machinist" as in working with Chinese machinists? Maybe you are of Chinese origin?

    From your profile:
    About SeaMoss
    Country:CHINA
    State / Province:not United States or Canada
    Interests:sex
    Occupation:machinist
    Some things about him remind me of "Monarchist" Bill, who has changed names before.

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    Speaking of immigration problems- I have woken up last couple of morning to find a huge Palmetto Bug (shorthand for big ass roach) crawling around the living room.

    What the hell- first time I have seen these as far north as DC...

    More devastation wrought by Global Warming?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Farmer View Post
    Some things about him remind me of "Monarchist" Bill, who has changed names before.
    Horrible to think you might be right. Talk about split personality.

    Have friends in China that sent me a picture of him

    troll.6.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I'll ignore the rest of your post and ask "Where in China do you live?". Writing "CHINA" as your location is about as informative as writing "USA" or "Europe".

    Might also be relevant to know what you do to earn your living. "Machinist" as in working with Chinese machinists? Maybe you are of Chinese origin?
    Dual answer, partly to shut up the person who thinks he Knows All About China because "we have a relationship with a company there", and partly since you asked politely ...

    1992 - installed, first articled (can you make a verb out of that ?), trained, &c &c a Sabre 1250 and K&T 800 w/D control out in Shaanxi. Closed city at the time, F.E.C., smuggled me into the county, lived in the factory, definitely an eye-opener. AC used to vary by 60 volts during the course of the day. First time I read that I was, "What is this ? Is the meter bad or something ?" No, trusty Fluke was right on. They were like, "Yeah, of course. Electricity doesn't do that in your country ?"

    1993-4 - house honky in two joint ventures in Haerbin, one making rear ends for five ton trucks, one making transmissions for dinky little vans - called mian bao che, "bread trucks" because they look like a little loaf of bread. They don't exist anymore. The truck rear ends were three 116 Gleasons, sharpener, lapper, tester, and a 22 rougher and finisher. Tranny factory our gift to the jv was two KT 200's, D controls, a Mitutoyo cmm (second most accurate one in Heilongjiang county at that time, after the test bureau's own, of course. Or so they said), some other little stuff. Mostly I got the K&T's running and the CMM qualified. Played Foreign Face at the spiral bevels jv, they did the 116's mostly but they were scared of the 22's (with good reason) so I did that. And proved their lies about "accuracy" were just that, using the CMM, but didn't matter anyhow, most US suppliers learned a long time ago that the 10% holdback for "accuracy" will never be paid, so you just jack up the price 10%. Trained people, fought off a blatant takeover by the jv "partner", had ... adventures.

    Best part about the tranny shop was bringing the K&T's into the building. It was snowing - December in Haerbin is chilly - so they set them on these sled sort of things and pulled them into the shop with shaggy little ponies. Wish I had a video of that, K&T's from a McDonnell-Douglas FMS pulled behind a team of horses It had some pretty cool software on a stack of tapes that came up to my chest. Fanuc et al suck donkey balls compared to the D. That's a nice control.

    Too bad I was still morally undamaged then, in those days you could get laid by looking across the room. We were eating dinner one night, I said something like, "Wa, that girl is cute" and the secretary immediately said "you want that woman ? Wait a second" and immediately thereafter the girl was sitting in my lap. 'No, wait, umm, I didn't mean ..."

    Stupid me And no, Mrs Chiang, it's not true ...

    Then my guy did a jv with the Shandong highway department, I knew better by then but allowed him to use this honky face for the paperwork and the ceremonies and all that.

    1996-ish put in a 24" straight bevel generator and 56" planer (Gleason) at another Chinese company. Straight install-and-train job.

    1998-ish taught a US wofe how to measure and cut gears. They were way off-track, seem to be doing better now.

    Some stuff after that, I forget what it was. Visited some smugglers down south who wanted to set up a wheel factory, but they never did. They knew how to party tho.

    2001-2002, Bush burned the Reichstag, I saw the handwriting and moved full-time.

    Set up a design department using Pro/E for a cast aluminum automotive wheel company, then got stuck trying to set up networking and quality control in their new joint venture plating operation in Wuxi. Nightmare. Knew better. The Chinese for joint venture can be directly translated as "demons in Hell giving you power enema with red-hot poker." Got out.

    Went to a startup for a Michigan or Wisconsin place that was screwing over their employees in Arizona. They had a twenty-five guy shop making wheel molds, the plan was open a shop in Kunshan then screw the US employees. Which is exactly what they did. I fixed the air, electric, networking, and whatever else they managed to screw up there. Which was pretty much everything. Spindle on a big vertical Awea chattered, they wanted to replace it for $10,000, I reset the preload on the bearings and awaaaay we went. Air lines were flat, dryer in the wrong place, wiring all wrong, pretty much everything was an abortion. They were paying five times what they should for electricity becasue they couldn't figure out a spreadsheet - it's not just graph paper ! - and couldn't talk to the electricity bureau. Donkeys. Did not increase my respect for bankster-type "capitalists." That place is still in business (in the US), ******** Global - all these shyster places say "global" in the name, it makes their peepee hard - but I have been told if their shop were not union, it would have been bankrupt several times over. The head guy is a dick, the underhead guy is a dick, pretty much the entire management team is a bunch of dicks. And stupid. Cunning but stupid. Hope they rot in hell, the guys from Arizona were good, smart, talented, hard workers.

    "Why doesn't anyone want to be a machinist anymore ?"

    Oh, let me think .....

    Got kicked out of there after it was all running okay (was expected, at least I didn't have to come over and train people to take my job, which is what a bunch or their guys got to do) ...

    Came to Skankhai, been here ever since. Set up a legally registered company, we buy, sell, consult, train, import export, whatever. Don't like to admit I live in Skank, don't like it very much, the food is the worst in China and the people may be the snottiest but what can ya do ? The Real Boss insists.

    Some wind energy planetaries and automotive press double-helicals in there somewhere, 3 meter gear grinders and 3 to 6 meter Maags. Between the two of us we were selling about a million dollars a year of stuff into China, which should have put us on a Forbes 500 list on a per-capita basis as exporters, but nobody even noticed S.O. did splurge on a Cartier watch tho, so there is that.

    Everything that I know about, I only know because we have done it. Personally. No second-hand stories, no saw it in Reader's Digest. Pull 000 wire through undersized conduit 12 feet off the ground in August, 100* F and 200% humidity weather, sit in the bottom of the tub pouring hot water from a thermos over myself to wash cuz the building was too antique to have hot water, have the Electricity Bureau tell the factory Leader he was going to jail if he said even one more word, when he tried to steal our shop (but of course over time they did anyhow)... just today spent the morning at the Commercial Bureau trying to find out how to change the company registration so we can do more stuff. No sit-on-the-ass, regurgitate some stupid story by Orville Schell (total ignorant jerk, by the way) knowledge here. Dirty hands kinda people, that's us. (Okay, have to admit the s.o. would do things different but oh well. She'll get her turn soon enough.)

    So whoever it was earlier pontificating ? Umm, I think I have a decent idea of how China operates. And it ain't kapitalist.

    All truth, have photos and docs. So the armchair capitalists might want to think a moment before making unfounded statements .... it's not like anything stops those guys tho, so what the heck. All I can do is put up the truth for people with eyes to see and judge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSquier View Post
    S

    Don't waste your time. McGyver imagines he is the Compendium of All Human Knowledge. Never mind that you live in China, he believes he knows more about the place - indeed everyplace - than anyone else on the planet.
    I suppose it must look that way when your knowledge is limited to what you can see from your back stoop.

    Someone who's lived there can provide insight and knowledge I'd never otherwise get. - insight into day to day life, how the country functions, the culture, people,....its a long list. I would like to hear about living there.

    However there are things that only a mental midget would insist you had to live there to have knowledge of. I gave illustrative examples but they didn't register. I'll try again. Imagine you spent the next year making a comparative study on, say, on global monetary policies. By your logic, my yoga instructor sister would just automatically know more about monetary policy in Canada than you because she lives there. See how stupid that sounds?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Speaking of immigration problems- I have woken up last couple of morning to find a huge Palmetto Bug (shorthand for big ass roach) crawling around the living room.

    What the hell- first time I have seen these as far north as DC...

    More devastation wrought by Global Warming?
    I think it's a heat and humidity thing. DC has both. Seems like the doggone things can thrive in any hot, humid environment. It's still pretty cool, though winter is just about over. Still, I would think it too chilly for them to be active. But they're tough bastards, that's for sure.

    Good luck with 'em. Maybe buy some extremely toxic bug spray and kick their ass!

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    However there are things that only a mental midget would insist you had to live there to have knowledge of.
    I didn't mean to say that you were crap, but what you believe is crap, since it is fed to people in the US by a media with an agenda. If a person is going to insist they "understand China" because they have visited three factories and had six gan bei dinners followed by ktv with a bunch of drunks, well ... sorry. Them ktv girls were good tho, yes ?

    There is SO MUCH that is hidden here. It's not as if it's hidden on purpose, but somehow it just comes out that way. Even the people who live here don't know how to do most things, since you can't know until you try it. And there are so many things that are not out in the open. Do you know what a hukou is ? And how it affects a person's life ?

    When you do try something, the relevant bureau will not tell you what you need to know, they feed you one step at a time. You go to do something you think you know how to do but no, that's wrong. You need this other paper (that doesn't exist, e.g. the US does not have a Certificate of No Criminal Record. So how do you get something that doesn't exist ? Most people end up making a fake one. And since the people behind the counter could care less and know nothing, they take the fake certificate happily because that's what it says they need and you go on to the next document that doesn't exist that they could have told you about last week but nooo, you didn't ask - about something you didn't know existed !

    It's infuriating but oh well. This is not capitalism. Everything is like this. And you can do nothing without the proper certificate. Sure, there are private banks and private businesses. And they do exactly what the government tells them they can do. Or cheat, which is sort of the national hobby, but that doesn't mean the system itself is "capitalist"

    Businessmen ? You are joking. I am tempted to say there are none, but this is a country of 1.2 billion people. There must be one somewhere. But the rest of them ? The ones you think are businessmen ? They (or more commonly now their dad) sold grandma's grave site to Seagate for a hard disk factory twenty years ago and they parlayed that through corrupt officials into many millions. Or they stole the worker's pension funds. Or they conned the local government into "investing" into some scheme that made them very wealthy but lost the country eighty-six million dollars but they got to move to Houston or Riverside and they don't care now. They are only "investors" because they stole huge amounts of money and now have to hide it. The China government these days is sending kidnap teams around the world to bring some of these crooks back. This is A-Okay by me and most other people here, but I guess Ozztralia is sort of upset by it

    It's an extreme temptation to say they are all crooks. I won't, because gross generalizations are always wrong ... but it's real real close.

    Then when people talk about the "market value of the yuan" it makes me laugh hysterically. You can't exchange it !! Exchanging currencies is very tightly controlled. There is no "market" if you can't buy or sell. You can swap a hundred bucks at the airport for rmb but try getting that back six months later ! And biggger amounts ? Unless you are Shell, it's a nightmare.

    A couple years ago Volkswagen gave all their employees twelve-months pay as a Spring Festival bonus. Did you read about that in the US ? Of course not. Was it because they are generous ? of course not. VW could not take the money out of the country, they were going to pay it one way or another, so they were pressured to give it to the employees as a bonus. But the underlying thing was, that money was not going to leave the country.

    Companies think, "Oh well, if things get too expensive here I will just take my factory and go home."

    Ha ha. You can't. You can personally go home but sorry, the factory stays. The power plant directly across the street from the Pratt & Whitney factory - joint venture with US company. Plant got finished, ribbon cut, started up, made electricity, thank you very much this joint venture is closed you may leave now. Capitalism ? You read about this in the US press, did you ?

    Nothing is what it looks like and you cannot find out until you try it. Then you find that sure, on paper you can do X or Y but in reality, you need a Permission from God Certificate and he's on vacation. Just today we were told that to do what we wanted we needed a certificate to prove that our US partner would be in business two years from now. Do you have any idea where to get one of those ?

    Then if you do get something done, if you are successful it will be taken away. (But no, they don't shoot people. Not unless you are an actual criminal. Not like the US where you get shot in the back for being black.)

    I could go on at length ... but a top-down, very tightly controlled planned economy where a few people get very wealthy by exploiting the situation is not capitalism.

    Or maybe it really is ... in which case you are correct. But that's not the "capitalism" which people in the US think of.

    Come to think of it tho, you may have a very valid point. It's maybe that your understanding of the word capitalism is in error. Or what I think your meaning is. Or, even more likely I am wrong. Do you adhere to the Karl Marx and Malcolm X definition of capitalism ? if so, then we actually agree.

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  16. #2532
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Speaking of immigration problems- I have woken up last couple of morning to find a huge Palmetto Bug (shorthand for big ass roach) crawling around the living room.

    What the hell- first time I have seen these as far north as DC...

    More devastation wrought by Global Warming?
    In 1975 I had a summer job in a restaurant in Georgetown that shall remain un-named.

    We had an infestation of Palmetto bugs that took months to clear out.

    Kind of funny watching the last one take refuge in the utility room that contained a maze of piping, impossible to get within six feet of the bastard. And man, he moved fast!


    We also had them in an apartment building I lived in on 18th St NW in 1977-79. I bought 100 day geckos from a scientific supply house and secretly turned them loose in an experiment. Well, someone told me they ate cockroaches.

    People were talking about the lizards for a long time. . . a lot longer than the roaches.

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  18. #2533
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    Dual answer, partly to shut up the person who thinks he Knows All About China because "we have a relationship with a company there", and partly since you asked politely ...
    That post #2528), in all it's entirety, has Monarchist and Thermite (also known as "the evil twins"), written all over it Bill. Strange that you arrived on the seen after "Monarchist" VANISHED.

    The only way you can avoid jumping around with your multi AKA's is if you find a new "writing" style.

    Not sure if you live in a fantasy world or if you're just out of your mind.

    I not only have business relationships in China but also friends. I can understand your reluctance to give specific details on anything as it might be easy to find out you are in fact a nobody filled with BS.

    I remember when you first joined PM you gave "research" as your occupation/hobby. Guess that comes in handy with your vast "knowledge" on everything.

    "You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time"

    Try posting a picture of yourself standing next to something recognizable in China and don't tell me you don't have one. Everyone in China has photographs. Don't worry about me as I won't hold my breath waiting

    You show me yours and I'll show you mine

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    I didn't mean to say that you were crap, but what you believe is crap, since it is fed to people in the US by a media with an agenda. If a person is going to insist they "understand China" because they have visited three factories and had six gan bei dinners followed by ktv with a bunch of drunks, well ... sorry. Them ktv girls were good tho, yes ?

    There is SO MUCH that is hidden here. It's not as if it's hidden on purpose, but somehow it just comes out that way. Even the people who live here don't know how to do most thigns, since you can't know until you try it. And there are so many things that are not out in the open. Do you know what a hukou is ? And how it affects a person's life ?

    When you do try something, the relevant bureau will not tell you what you need to know, they feed you one step at a time. You go to do something you think you know how to do but no, that's wrong. You need this other paper (that doesn't exist, e.g. the US does not have a Certificate of No Criminal Record. So how do you get something that doesn't exist ? Most people end up making a fake one. And since the people behind the counter could care less and know nothing, they take the fake certificate happily because that's what it says they need and you go on to the next document that doesn't exist that they could have told you about last week but nooo, you didn't ask - about something you didn't know existed !

    It's infuriating but oh well. This is not capitalism. Everything is like this. And you can do nothing without the proper certificate. Sure, there are private banks and private businesses. And they do exactly what the government tells them they can do. Or cheat, which is sort of the national hobby, but that doesn't mean the system itself is "capitalist"

    Businessmen ? You are joking. I am tempted to say there are none, but this is a country of 1.2 billion people. There must be one somewhere. But the rest of them ? The ones you think are businessmen ? They (or more commonly now their dad) sold grandma's grave site to Seagate for a hard disk factory twenty years ago and they parlayed that through corrupt officials into many millions. Or they stole the worker's pension funds. Or they conned the local government into "investing" into some scheme that made them very wealthy but lost the country eighty-six million dollars but they got ot move to Houston or Riverside.

    It's an extreme temptation to say they are all crooks. I won't, because gross generalizations are always wrong ... but it's real real close.

    Then when people talk about the "market value of the yuan" it makes me laugh hysterically. You can't exchange it !! Exchanging currencies is very tightly controlled. There is no "market" if you can't buy or sell. You can swap a hundred bucks at the airport for rmb but try getting that back six months later ! And biggger amounts ? Unless you are Shell, it's a nightmare. This ain't what it looks like but you never find out until you try it. Then you find that sure, on paper you can do X or Y but in reality, you need a Permission from God certificate and he's on vacation.

    I could go on at length ... but a top-down, very tightly controlled planned economy where a few people get very wealthy by exploiting the situation is not capitalism.

    Or maybe it really is ... in which case you are correct. But that's not the "capitalism" which people in the US think of.

    Come to think of it tho, you have a very valid point. It's just that your understanding of the word capitalism is in error. Or what I think your meaning is. Or, more likely I am wrong. Do you adhere to the Karl Marx and Malcolm X definition of capitalism ? if so, then we actually agree.
    thanks for the thoughtful response - I was sincere in saying I wanted hear and learn more about life there. There's been a few silly escapes with knuckle draggers here lately, through that I perhaps left the wrong impression and perhaps I took the wrong tone. Apologies if so.

    To explain and give some context, we had been in a somewhat theoretical discussion where I asserted China's growth came from capitalism against opponents who view socialism as the way to go. Sure China was and largely still is socialist, but the incredible growth had come from adopting capitalism in a segment of the economy. ie the economic reforms that started in '78

    The examples you gave above underscore its not like it is here. You're saying it is still a largely central planned communist government with practices that'll make you mental and are nothing like here. I have also been vocal on the forums of how the pegged yaun has be unfair economic practice, at the expense of both our industry and Chinese people - THAT is not capitalist practice. Peace, I get it.I do not dispute or challenge any of what you said, and do not for second pretend to "understand" China and I've not claimed to. However that doesn't mean what I have is incorrect.

    To establish same page-ness, capitalism is first of all an economic description not political. Its the reforms that allow private business, allow owners and protect (to some degree) the rights of ownership. Its that prices are set by the market instead of a bureau and the profit motive of individuals is what drives decisions. Where those thing happened, ie Shenzen, they have cause incredible growth. Those are the major things that differentiate capitalism from socialism (to make the hippy dippy idealist happy) as economic models. I did not say or mean to say that things there like they are here.

    That you own a business says capitalism exists there (capitalism being an economic model, not a political or social judgement). Generally, whether you describe a country as socialist or capitalist is based on what is the main driver of the economy. ie, in Canada we have socialized medicine, but no one would describe our country or economy as socialist as the overwhelming percentage of the economy is free market capitalism. I've stopped short of attributing percentages for China as I just don't know....but seems a pretty safe bet to say their economic growth was because they allowed significant parts of the economy to shift toward a capitalist model (private ownership, profit motive and market based prices)

    Interestingly, there's a chart that quantifies were the growth from 1978-2012 came from.
    The largest amount is from the private (capitalist) sector. That of course is just growth, and doesn't address how large each sector is in total. A brief history of China’s economic growth | World Economic Forum. The chart is from the National Bureau of Economic Research which I think has to be taken as credible

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    Quote Originally Posted by MJR7 View Post
    oldsquier, are you a follower of elizabeth warren or have you been putting in overtime googling her looking for something to post here? i think any sensible person would accept the opinion of one of her constituents, scottl, over someone living half a continent away (oklahoma) or half a planet away (finland). your signature says oklahoma but your pm location is finland. which is it? better be oklahoma what with all of your disparaging comments about the usa; heaven forbid you live outside the country.

    but anyway, we have trump for at least the next 4 years. get over it.

    oldsquier's comments on warren have to be the final straw; he has got to be a troll.
    I recently had coffee with friends and two long-time Democrats amazed the rest of us with the vehemence of their scorn for Senator Warren.

    If her fans take the time to explore bills she has introduced and their history they will see that most "died in committee". This happened even when enough Democrats were there to get the bills out to the floor. Introducing a bill is often a "no cost" publicity gainer for some politicians. A person who truly cares about a bill would fight for it and lobby other legislators to support it. IT COSTS NOTHING to just let a bill die and then tell the folks back home I did this and that. Barney Frank was notorious for introducing bills of interest to seniors (a large portion of his supporters) and then letting the bills die and even declining to sign a Discharge Petition introduced by others to bring the bill out for vote.

    When Senator Warren got elected I thought at least she might really fight for true financial reform but if you look behind the rhetoric she has done little. Most of her actions are simply grandstanding for the cameras.

    While we are on the subject of Warren I find it odd that a "traditionalist" whose posts are signed with "Cherokee Nation" gives her a pass on her using claims of (marginal even if true) Cherokee ancestry to gain minority advantages meant to help people who actually are members of a minority. Even if she actually has the miniscule amount of Cherokee blood claimed she is overwhelmingly white and should have enough moral character not to take what was meant for others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Farmer View Post
    Well now Scotti, I don't know how you define "around here," but I can only guess it means within your property boundaries.

    She did manage to get elected with a majority of the popular vote, which is more than our President can say.

    Now I don't think she should run for President. She has the warmth and charm of a law school professor, which is what she was. She has no charisma and as a result is almost certainly unelectable--we don't much like bookworms as Presidents, unless they balance it with something that gives them popular appeal. Maybe she should take up golf, who knows.

    But she knows her stuff, and has been doing ok as our senator.
    Liking and disliking politicians? LOL

    Here there are a few I like but many more I simply detest. Someone has to vote for the ones I detest as they are in parliament so there is no accounting for taste.

    Trump isn't and never will be a politician and only time will tell if that's good or bad. At some point in time he'll have to pretend to be a politician and that's when the "fun" begins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    I recently had coffee with friends and two long-time Democrats amazed the rest of us with the vehemence of their scorn for Senator Warren.

    If her fans take the time to explore bills she has introduced and their history they will see that most "died in committee". This happened even when enough Democrats were there to get the bills out to the floor. Introducing a bill is often a "no cost" publicity gainer for some politicians. A person who truly cares about a bill would fight for it and lobby other legislators to support it. IT COSTS NOTHING to just let a bill die and then tell the folks back home I did this and that. Barney Frank was notorious for introducing bills of interest to seniors (a large portion of his supporters) and then letting the bills die and even declining to sign a Discharge Petition introduced by others to bring the bill out for vote.

    When Senator Warren got elected I thought at least she might really fight for true financial reform but if you look behind the rhetoric she has done little. Most of her actions are simply grandstanding for the cameras.

    While we are on the subject of Warren I find it odd that a "traditionalist" whose posts are signed with "Cherokee Nation" gives her a pass on her using claims of (marginal even if true) Cherokee ancestry to gain minority advantages meant to help people who actually are members of a minority. Even if she actually has the miniscule amount of Cherokee blood claimed she is overwhelmingly white and should have enough moral character not to take what was meant for others.
    Well, I am not aware of her claims to Native American ancestry. What is it that she has claimed?

    Seems to me that her work in bringing the CFPB online and obtaining $10 Billion for consumers who have been ripped-off is a hell of an accomplishment. Don't you think so?

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK

  24. Likes JoeE. liked this post
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    I
    One further thought. Are you saying Warren tried to
    obtain benefits as a Native person?

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSquier View Post
    Well, I am not aware of her claims to Native American ancestry. What is it that she has claimed?

    Seems to me that her work in bringing the CFPB online and obtaining $10 Billion for consumers who have been ripped-off is a hell of an accomplishment. Don't you think so?

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK
    I'll let you pick which articles you want to read and make your own conclusions.

    Google

    In fairness to the woman, it is my understanding that there was a split among the Cherokee many years ago and some who chose a different path (assimilation?) were in essence disavowed by the tribe. It is possible she has some blood of people who were once considered Cherokee but my major criticism is for using such a tiny connection to lay claim to minority status. Many schools give admissions preference to minorities and IMO it is cheating for people like her to even list it under race.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSquier View Post
    I
    One further thought. Are you saying Warren tried to
    obtain benefits as a Native person?

    Squire

    Sent Using Tapatalk - Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, Tahlequah OK
    A long debunked claim.
    She was told she was part native and noted that on her resume.
    When she found out that it was false she removed it.
    She never sought or received benefits.


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