We are having our products built in Europe, to avoid shipping costs.

When the euro was strong we shipped quite a bit of our tools into europe. The drop in the euro has trashed our sales there. I went to france a few months ago and went to a few shops that could produce our products in paris. We just had our first runs of parts completed and shipped to the customers everything worked out well. The thing that blew me away was the cost to manufacture the parts in paris was the same as in Tucson Az. The difference was pennies in cost which was probably exchange related. I didnt even negotiate price. These are lathe turned parts and laser cut parts as well as powder coating. I just thought you guys might be interested to know the cost similarities. I can get my products produced in mexico for 70 percent less than here in the US. We dont do it but it gives you something to compare with.

Whats to stop the guy in France from starting to sell your products under his name?

dstryr said:

Whats to stop the guy in France from starting to sell your products under his name?

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Come on. What's to stop another guy here in the US doing the same thing?

dstryr said:

Whats to stop the guy in France from starting to sell your products under his name?

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What USUALLY applies in Commerce:

Market isn't so large, well-understood, or lucrative for a contractor of even 'average' integrity to want to risk lawsuits or queering a vanilla contract.

Kevin wuddna' selected an outfit of starving thieves.

They'll have more important things to do with the REST of their day than play f**k-f**k games with customers who represent only a part of their workload.

Bill

Lets face it there is nothing on the planet that cannot be made by anyone with a cnc machine and a little skill. The trick is to market it and understand the market. I am not really worried about it because I couldnt sell there any longer anyways now we have opened up a new market. I am hoping to do the same with austrailia. I think in the very near future exports will become a waste of time. Most products can be produced locally for the same price especially if they are designed correctly to take advantage of modern machines.

kpotter said:

Lets face it there is nothing on the planet that cannot be made by anyone with a cnc machine and a little skill. The trick is to market it and understand the market. I am not really worried about it because I couldnt sell there any longer anyways now we have opened up a new market. I am hoping to do the same with austrailia. I think in the very near future exports will become a waste of time. Most products can be produced locally for the same price especially if they are designed correctly to take advantage of modern machines.

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Good thinking.

World is not 'zero sum' after all. It doesn't really have to become a lessening in trade, wealth, or decent jobs for all players.

That said, as to "nothing on the planet..."?

I defy you to produce a litter of healthy puppies with a CNC machine. Bitchin' task, perhaps, but best left to the dogs.



Bill

Monarchist said:

Good thinking.

World is not 'zero sum' after all. It doesn't really have to become a lessening in trade, wealth, or decent jobs for all players.

That said, as to "nothing on the planet..."?

I defy you to produce a litter of healthy puppies with a CNC machine. Bitchin' task, perhaps, but best left to the dogs.



Bill

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I am reminded of this...
One woman can make a baby in nine months,
But nine women can't make a baby in one.

I was always told the first one can come at anytime the second child takes 9 months


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Miguels244 said:

I am reminded of this...
One woman can make a baby in nine months,
But nine women can't make a baby in one.

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Given how b****y contrarian you usually are?

I'm betting you don't believe either part of that, and are ready to argue it to death...

Monarchist said:

Given how b****y contrarian you usually are?

I'm betting you don't believe either part of that, and are ready to argue it to death...

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I volunteer my services if nine female volunteers can be found to test the theory (always ready to sacrifice myself for science).

And to make it more robust, there should be at least five groups to average out results.

Milland said:

I volunteer my services if nine female volunteers can be found to test the theory (always ready to sacrifice myself for science).

And to make it more robust, there should be at least five groups to average out results.

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Sure about that? What if Miguel gets to pre-select the participants? Worse - test them...

Monarchist said:

Sure about that? What if Miguel gets to pre-select the participants? Worse - test them...

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I'll need an independent committee to make selections - I don't think I trust anyone *here* to do it. And considering the topic is making product out of country, I will require damsels from all major continents - now we're talking a robust study!

Except Antarctica - not into penguins... [no Nun jokes, dammit - I'm in enough trouble already]

Milland said:

I volunteer my services if nine female volunteers can be found to test the theory (always ready to sacrifice myself for science).

And to make it more robust, there should be at least five groups to average out results.

Click to expand...

Have you considered just how much money you are going to have to pay in child support for your 45 kids?

Milland said:

considering the topic is making product out of country, I will require damsels from all major continents - now we're talking a robust study!

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Well .. no 'byproducts' - nor STD's, thankfully - so I guess what with Afghani to Vietnamese, I've already made a trial (sure wasn't 'dry'!) run well ahead of you.

Expect some duplicates if working to the alphabet. Tough job, but somebody had to do it..

swatkins said:

Have you considered just how much money you are going to have to pay in child support for your 45 kids?

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That's what a NSF grant is for. Writing the proposal will be interesting...

And maybe there can be wording that if they can't produce a kid a month I'm off the hook.

Milland said:

That's what a NSF grant is for. Writing the proposal will be interesting...

And maybe there can be wording that if they can't produce a kid a month I'm off the hook.

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Ah. Well. 'short cycle times' izzit?

You, ah.. 'fancy' the taste of Chikn' feathers?

Be grateful for 'lights out' CNC cycles, then...

Kevin, your post was interesting because it made me think about the future of 3D printing.

It's still kind of underdeveloped, but it'll be different in 10-20 years.

An entrepeneur like you could design products, send out the design files, and licensed producers could make them on the spot, anywhere in the world.

Or on the International Space Station, which already has a 3D printer for exactly this purpose--saves time and shipping costs.

3D printing metals is primitive in 2017, bet it'll be old school by 2037.

kpotter said:

When the euro was strong we shipped quite a bit of our tools into europe. The drop in the euro has trashed our sales there. I went to france a few months ago and went to a few shops that could produce our products in paris. We just had our first runs of parts completed and shipped to the customers everything worked out well. The thing that blew me away was the cost to manufacture the parts in paris was the same as in Tucson Az. The difference was pennies in cost which was probably exchange related. I didnt even negotiate price. These are lathe turned parts and laser cut parts as well as powder coating. I just thought you guys might be interested to know the cost similarities. I can get my products produced in mexico for 70 percent less than here in the US. We dont do it but it gives you something to compare with.

Click to expand...

What should make some think about are the working conditions the French have compared to their US counterparts. Some in the USA must be raking in the money at the expense of low paid machinists. I doubt if low wages are as big a factor as often accredited. Top salesmen earn top wages. Why shouldn't top machinists earn top wages?

The benefits and perks of working in France - The Local

Which are the best countries in the world to live in if you are unemployed or disabled? | Politics | The Guardian

Sea Farmer said:

Kevin, your post was interesting because it made me think about the future of 3D printing.

It's still kind of underdeveloped, but it'll be different in 10-20 years.

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Thing you would do really well to remember after a millennia of metal working some of the strongest parts made are still being hammered into shape. Not knocking 3d printing but its just like cnc machining, its one production process with strengths and weaknesses. Its never going to rival current rolling mill practices for large heavy structural beams on a cost basis. There is efficiencies in scale steel manufacture that 3d printing will never realise, as to the 3d priniting in space, yeah cool and all, but still not making really anything functionally critical.

Best use i have heard of it is the thrusters for space x, lever-ageing the tech for all its good points.

Now don't get me wrong, please prove me wrong how it can produce the kinda heavy highly finished bits K potter makes economically and it will be a far more interesting discussion!

kpotter said:

When the euro was strong we shipped quite a bit of our tools into europe. The drop in the euro has trashed our sales there. I went to france a few months ago and went to a few shops that could produce our products in paris. We just had our first runs of parts completed and shipped to the customers everything worked out well. The thing that blew me away was the cost to manufacture the parts in paris was the same as in Tucson Az. The difference was pennies in cost which was probably exchange related. I didnt even negotiate price. These are lathe turned parts and laser cut parts as well as powder coating. I just thought you guys might be interested to know the cost similarities. I can get my products produced in mexico for 70 percent less than here in the US. We dont do it but it gives you something to compare with.

Click to expand...

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big companies normally find a small company in a foreign country that can make their parts. after they prove they can make the parts to tolerance specs then big company can buy the small company in say France. then big company has their own employees in France who read write French (bilingual or speak, read write, translate English and French and German is very valuable) and have contacts and local expertise like on laws and taxes and how things are normally done locally. that local expertise can have extremely high value in some countries. for example French steel standards and names for steel types and knowing comparable types to USA steel types.
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yes the Euro going down is causing stress on USA companies making products and trying to sell them in Europe competing with say German companies making products to sell in Europe.
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profit margins were not high last year and some companies are loosing money now and might stop producing items to sell in Europe til Euro stabilizes. this can mean job layoffs.
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when i worked in China at first it seemed there was no way to do many things cause i had no ideal where to even buy supplies. phone book was useless as every small store would list they sell everything but actually have little in the store. i ended up getting a taxi and ask take me to a big tool store or area with a lot of tool stores. then i made a list of business cards. after, then if i needed something i could look on list and know where to get supplies. i have had people not even tell me where to buy rags or shop towels. they wanted me to buy them from them and they would make 20% profit. if i knew the source i could cut the middle man out and save 20%. do not under estimate local knowledge and expertise. i had Italian machine and we had choice order small repair part from Italy and send to China or have part made in China to fix Italian machine. eventually found place that specialized in making hardened and tempered steel parts ground to precise sizes in China. if anything they talked my ear off on all the tool steel types and different ways part could be made. local expertise and knowledge and read write and translate is very valuable and often under estimated by people who never travel to other countries