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02-06-2011, 11:10 PM #1
Where are they now? The workers that is.
In the pre CNC era manual low skilled labor was in high demand... From all industries from agriculture to manufacturing...
However from the eighties onwards the number of workers in these industries has been reduced by a large number...
Where did the low skilled workers go.. What do they do now... Not everyone is cut out for a university degree and I doubt we have any more doctors and engineers as a % of the population now then in the 60's...
So the question remains...
02-07-2011, 05:05 AM #2
dunno about down under, but here in the States, they're working at wallyworld, target, etc etc schlepping chicom crap (I would list construction laborers, janitorial, restaurant kitchen help, and fast-food jointsbut they've all been taken over by illegal aliens). 'Course, let's not forget the record-high levels of unemployed/underemployed..............
Ain't a service-based economy just peachy???
on edit: They haven't actually 'gone' anywhere (unless you still call it 'going on the dole', then yes, they've all 'gone' somewhere)
Last edited by 77ironhead; 02-07-2011 at 05:07 AM. Reason: adding comment
02-07-2011, 06:10 AM #3
when I was a kid I could get a part time job for after school in about an hour, and everyone I knew worked at least a few hours a week. Now it is a big deal to get a high school job even at McD's. I made allot of money doing summer factory jobs in college, like 9 bucks an hour in 1973! plus overtime, now you are lucky to get 20 hours at min wage at Burger King.
I think this accounts for some of that difference. Many people are under employed, but then there are whole segments of the economy that did not exist 30 years ago.
02-07-2011, 06:46 AM #4
I help out with my sons boy scout troop and I was talking to the boys yesterday and these are kids between the age of 12-18 and none have ever gotten a job not one, out of 30 kids and it is not because they dont want one it is because there are none. I live in AZ and a good job is a job that pays 7.50 per hour and those are all snapped up by adults. If you go the the burger place it is not kids working there it is all adults. These kids may never get a job it could take years to fix this problem.
02-07-2011, 08:59 AM #5
1979 is 32 years ago.
The youngstown area crashed right around 1979 (Rick Rowlands help me out here)
and allot of those people were in their 30' and 50's.
I have relatives down that way, when it hit, the younger cousin moved away.
They eventually retired (either early, with limited pay,
or from "service jobs") drifted into the woodwork, or are gone (died).
02-07-2011, 09:22 AM #6
There are jobs for the scouts. You could hire one or two to buff your stakes-freeing you up to do the more skilled labor. Another could wrap items for shipping.
If I was still making as many copper spinnings as I did in the past, I'd hire one to buff for me @ $10/hour. But I have moved on to other items. Can any of your scouts crochet? I have such work that will bring in$ 8-$12/hour. Work is there. It just takes some creative looking.
02-07-2011, 12:55 PM #7
The problem is they (the low wage jobs) haven't gone anywhere. They're not worth outsourcing. What has gone are a large chunk of the jobs that pay a "living wage". Those ARE worth outsourcing.
As a consequence, a significant portion of those who previously held "living wage" jobs are now working at minimum wage service sector jobs, making it difficult for young people to find summer work and "first jobs".
Not only that, but RETIRED people who's pensions have run out due to mishandling are returning to work at entry-level jobs to supplement their social security checks.
The BLS employment statistics prove this out rather well.
02-07-2011, 01:00 PM #8
Those workers are now low to mid level managers at your local, state, and Federal
facilities departments. They walk contractors around and show them the jobs they
want done quickly and cheaply.
02-07-2011, 01:39 PM #9
It's Obamas fault. He's trying to crash the economy so he can convert all those poor jobless bastards into Muslim fundamentalists. Then he will unleash his army of jihadists on America and take this country down once and for all. It's all been planned from the time Obama was born. They faked his birth certificate knowing he would one day be president. All you have to do is connect the dots.
02-07-2011, 02:14 PM #10
02-07-2011, 03:05 PM #11
They've all been elected...
02-07-2011, 04:43 PM #12
The roofer was Roth Bros from Youngstown. I was talking to their foreman as he and I laid out the curb locations on the roof. This was in 89 or 90. He was telling me he'd worked for Roth Bros for 25 years, and for the first 15 it was rare for him to spend a nite out of town on a job. Then, around 79-80, he said things changed almost overnight and he almost never worked a job in driving distance of Youngstown. At the time we were talking, he said it had been 3 years since he'd done a lick of work within 150 miles of Youngstown.
He had a crew of 4 other guys from the Youngstown area and hired laborers locally as necessary. Said Roth treated them good. They'd normally work 7 days a week for 3 weeks and then Roth would fly them home for a week. Said he actually made a fair bit more money on the road, but it still sucked traveling all the time. OTOH, he said he did feel fortunate compared to a lot of guys he knew back home who worked other types of jobs. He started traveling and never missed a check while a lot of those folks found themselves laid off with nobody hiring for anything that paid decent wages.
02-07-2011, 04:56 PM #13
If I was to hire someone I would want to do it legally not under the table. I cant employ a 16 year old in an industrial job plus can you imagine what a 5hp buffer could do to someone who is not skilled. The law suit would be huge.
02-07-2011, 05:00 PM #14
I have looked into hiring but I would want to pay the person a decent wage and give them health insurance and vacation, I dont have those things so I wont expect someone else to work for me when I cant provide them with a decent salary. I out source all my welding and cutting now and it has improved my productivity. I use a vibratory finisher to polish and will be out sourcing my painting next. I can see why companies dont hire it costs to much.
02-08-2011, 10:09 AM #15I have looked into hiring but I would want to pay the person a decent wage and give them health insurance and vacation, I dont have those things so I wont expect someone else to work for me when I cant provide them with a decent salary. I out source all my welding and cutting now and it has improved my productivity. I use a vibratory finisher to polish and will be out sourcing my painting next. I can see why companies dont hire it costs to much.
However, its a bit foolish to not hire someone cause you can't pay a "decent" wage. Offer the job at a wage that provides enough return to be worthwhile, and if someone takes it, they decided it was decent enough. You're doing more harm that anything by completely witholding the position. (Assuming, again, you can get enough return to make having the person worth-while.)
02-08-2011, 10:52 AM #16
Yep, there are definitely other taxes involved, but I hired my first employee in about 1982, and have had them pretty much continuously ever since.
It aint rocket science, and it aint that hard to fill out the forms on yer computer.
If government truly made it "TOO HARD" to employ people, then, nobody would have a job.
Obviously, a few people still do have jobs...
Anyway, if you have work, it often is cheaper to pay all those taxes, and hire someone, than to either do it all yourself, outsource it, or just turn down customers.
If you dont have work, you dont need employees.
But paying employee taxes is at most, a third, of the cost of having an employee, and that is with generous benefits.
In most industries, labor is below ten percent of costs. Obviously, there are exceptions, but that number is true for most real manufacturing. And that means the tax and benefit burden is 3%?
Every business had different situations, but I have found that I can pay a guy a wage he will feel good about, and make more money than if I didnt have employees.
Most businesses in the USA seem to feel similarly.
02-08-2011, 12:25 PM #17
Most companies hire people because the total cost of thier employment is less than the return they get from thier labor, right?
So that means that there is some point, where that total cost exceeds the production they can get... so that position isn't created. Cant deny that. I'm not really trying to aurgue that taxes are outrageously high, but trying to say that they do affect employment numbers.
Truth is, I'd like to see 1 million and up pay a top rate of 40%, middle class a few percent less than they do, and the working class have to pay a few more percent (Effectivly they pay ZERO right now, when they get thier tax returns. I think they need some skin in the game. 47% of the populous paying no tax is ridiculous.
02-08-2011, 01:01 PM #18
"Truth is, I'd like to see 1 million and up pay a top rate of 40%, middle class a few percent less than they do, and the working class have to pay a few more percent (Effectivly they pay ZERO right now, when they get thier tax returns. I think they need some skin in the game. 47% of the populous paying no tax is ridiculous."
Working class pays zero tax?
What planet are you on?
Tax rate on operations like Goldman Sachs, ONE PERCENT.
Hows that for not paying taxes.
I think the rate for the top earners during the reagan era, was 70-80 percent, right?
Things were pretty prosperous then.
02-08-2011, 01:15 PM #19
Yeah, pretty much zero. I made 31K last year (got my job in July, after graduating college) Got all but a few hundred back, and didn't even get gamey with my return.
02-08-2011, 02:02 PM #20