Why we must go metric - cold turkey - now. - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Stan View Post
    The US has lost untold billions in exports over the past 3 or 4 decades due to our refusal to switch to the metric system.
    Untold billions? You have a source for that assertion, Stan? I wasn't the first person to call you on this assertion, so no dodging because you don't want to satisfy "Mr. Pick-a-fight", Stan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Stan View Post
    Of note is that the majority of large manufacturing companies have already switched to the metric system.
    Sounds like manufacturers are already adapting out of a desire to export. Kind of like how some exporters are using EU wiring and safety specifications for electronic devices.

    Gene

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Neill View Post
    In the UK, we officially went metric back in the 70’s, but we still use both systems here. I prefer designing and working in metric, it is indisputably easier. But I’m equally happy to work in imperial, although I do tend to double check my figures more when doing this. And for really precise stuff I still talk and think in thous’ and tenths, but I’m probably in the last generation – still sub 50 years-old – that will do this. I continue to hate working with most fractions though, except for the simple ones like ¼; ½; ¾; and so on, which apply equally as well to metric as imperial

    We still sell beer and milk in Pints, and our road signs and travel distances and speedometers are still in Miles. We still talk about mpg, rather than km/litre, and you can still buy fruit and veg in both pounds/ounces as well as grams and kilos.

    So teach it, don’t force it, and in time a preferred system will prevail and be chosen.

    Peter
    Here is the voice of reason based upon "Been there, done that" experience.


    Companies that wish to export will make the appropriate choice.

    I worked for a tiny firm of about sixty souls which used metric fasteners and used EU specifications for electronic devices. ROHS, EU wiring codes and dual 50/60 hz power conversion. They got business all over the globe. It's not a big deal to look up the specs and use appropriate wires and conventions....

    Anyone is free at any time to do this... and life goes on.

    I for one do not get this urgency... I think this is another silver bullet band aid idea, forcing us to use metric.

    As the United States becomes one of a "multipolar world" we'll slowly adapt to metric measurements. Naturally and quite painlessly. Without Big Brother telling us what to do.

    Gene

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  4. #43
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    Cool

    Anybody remember the mars lander that was programed partially with Imperial, and partially with metric measurements from another vendor?

    a big, expensive "oops!" When it impacted the Martian surface. Who was riding herd on THOSE guys?
    Last edited by thruthefence; 12-15-2008 at 05:41 PM. Reason: spelling correction

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    Default Fractions of a millimetre

    laminar-flow: Do full metric people even mention "1/4 millimeter"? Or do they say "point two five mm"?

    Here in Denmark we would say 'zero point twentyfive millimetres'. We don't leave out the zero (but in danish it's called 'nul').
    I grew up with bolts in inches being gradually converted to millimetres, and nowadays no-one uses inches - with one exception: ordinary steel pipe (for household water supply) is still inches: 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, 1, 5/4 (not 1 1/4), 1 1/2, 2, 2 1/2 and maybe larger sizes also).

    This is changing as most plumbers are using compression fittings with millimeter pipe

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    Quote Originally Posted by juergenwt View Post
    I would like for everybody to look at the arguments made by both, the pro metric and the contra metric. Read it carefully,than draw your own conclusions. It is an eye opener!
    It sure is, some of you metric nazis kind of come off as a bunch of whiners. My god man, fractions are like a 3rd grade math subject, and to listen to some of you shun them with terror as if they’re some kind of voodoo is quite comical.

    Nothing wrong with metric, lots of us here in the US have been using both standards for a long time. The public school system here has been teaching metric alongside imperial for a long time…And as others have pointed out, many many companies are making the transition, and have been in this process for decades. But it’s still going to take some time, and frankly, why wouldn’t resistance be expected from some of us? We all have a lot of time and money invested in the imperial system. Are YOU offering to finance the change?

    This is a BIG country, I don’t think you realize what it would really cost to do it “cold turkey”. And incase you haven’t noticed, there’s bigger economic fish to fry right now than immediately replacing a good chunk of our infrastructure with metric equivalents. And even if we did there’s still going to be a lot of legacy imperial based technology around and in use for a long time - so realistically speaking, future generations will still have to learn “both languages” for awhile.

    So while you’re waiting for eternal metric bliss, here’s a little something to help you through your crisis…

    http://www.myteacherpages.com/webpag...subpage=150593

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    Default Why can't we use both?

    Historically people will not change unless there is an advantage. We went from horses to cars because of an advantage not because of some goverment mandate. Why not use both? Don't we already use two systems in other realms? Some pipe is measured OD, while other types of pipe is measured ID. National thread is better for some things, Acme thread for other things....Are we saying that kids in the US are too dumb to learn both systems and apply them when there is an advantage to? Just my .02/ oh sorry 1/50th.

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    Got a 6" scale here I keep at the computer (also marked 0-150mm), made in Swizterland.

    Pipes are inch here, and are still because they are a fundamental part of the infrastructure, so it would be foolish to change.

    Inches are cool becase they can be divided easily into so many fractions. Aside from that I don't see an advantage.

    I know that a U.S. company producing a product using inch fasteners is going to have a hard time finding buyers in Europe. I can get a wrench for them here but if I need to replace a screw/nut/bolt it'll be special order = hassel. So it would make sense for manufacturers looking to possibly export to go metric.

    As for cut lumber and anything else that would be odd to export why force a change?

    Metric fasteners are easy enough to find in the U.S.; so if Kurt made their vices 'all metric' I could probably get one from my MSC equivalent here. I'm sure they do export some, but those inch screws frighten off buyers just like the word metric gets the inch folks all in a tizzy.

    A forced change would be a bear and unbelievably expensive- how about incentives for manufacturers who go metric with their products?

    I see a lot of Chryslers around here these days- bet I wouldn't if it was inches under the hood!

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    Finegan,stnecut and Screwmachine. Thanks for your input. Can I ask you to please go back and read my post again. Also read the website I listed and than apply it to your statements. One by one. What you are doing is asking questions in a way that fit your ready made answer. That is not the American way. America reached it's peak in manufacturing by being in the forefront and on the cutting edge - not by hanging on to things from the past that have outlived their usefulness.
    You are making the same arguments that were made throughout history. "Cost to much! why a steam engine? Why a car? Why a sewing machine? Why a textile mill? And so on and on. Answer: BECAUSE IT IS BETTER, FASTER,MORE PRODUCTIVE, MORE CONVENIENT, EASIER TO USE among other things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by juergenwt View Post
    Answer: BECAUSE IT IS BETTER!
    Question: WHY IS IT BETTER????

    Answer: BECAUSE IT'S EASIER!!!

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    With auto manufacturers on the verge of bankruptcy, and the entire economy in the tank, and we're at war with terrorists, I'm sure Obamas' plate is a little full to worry about how we measure distances.

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    juergen, I read the article. The reason the author endorses metric is...in her own words more or less... she's too stupid to understand fractions, and too lazy to remember the rest of the imperial system. So if that's you're argument too, then I really feel bad for you. This isn't calculus we're talking. Remembering what a mile is, or a foot, or inch, or pound...well it's about as easy as knowing the difference between a cat and dog.

    Metric may be easier, especially if you've grown up with it. Might not be if you didn't. But I wouldn't call metric 'cutting edge'. The US was on the winning side of 2 world wars with imperial engineers and technology - against metric countries...how's that fit into your equation? How has metric improved any from then to make it 'cutting edge'? (other than organizing into SI?)

    I acknowledge that it's a standard that the rest of the world follows, and it would benefit us to comply for products involving international trade (which we are doing), but the argument that seems to be made that imperial is 'difficult' to me though is asinine.

    I'm basically conceding that we are already, as a country, on our way to transitioning to metric...but this crisis you've made out of the situation is a bit 'chicken little', no?

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    Decimal inch- Simple, American.

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    Talking Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by DanKetch View Post
    Decimal inch- Simple, American.
    This is a classic American answer.You that both World War I/II will allow to grow into power? Never in your country WAR.Your houses not fire and family not die.My grandfather wearing a bullet in the body, even 30 years after war.This (war) time your industrial products are of strategic importance from the buttons after the tanks.Today is not.European producers benefit of the common metric system.Im toolmakers,work under French or German drawings,not problems although i do not know their language.American or English drawings are a big problem,problem named INCH and others specific in this drawnings.
    Think about that today no one has a problem to buy the latest technology and can produce what you.My country closed 40 years.Rusian solders on every corners.Not CNC machines or others technologii,today im have a latest technologie im free.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matotope View Post
    This is a classic American answer.You that both World War I/II will allow to grow into power? Never in your country WAR.Your houses not fire and family not die.My grandfather wearing a bullet in the body, even 30 years after war. This (war) time your industrial products are of strategic importance from the buttons after the tanks.
    We haven't had a war here since 1865. A civil war. A very very violent civil war that included purges, concentration camps, people being arrested in the night without charge (mainly by Abe Lincoln's government) and huge numbers of dead. Piracy, spies and other nasty stuff.

    We build a lot of stuff for the British and French and others. Things have changed since that time.

    Quote Originally Posted by matotope View Post
    Today is not.European producers benefit of the common metric system.Im toolmakers,work under French or German drawings,not problems although i do not know their language.American or English drawings are a big problem,problem named INCH and others specific in this drawings.
    ...but I've been told that if we send you a .DWG file or some analogue you can change the dimensions.... they won't be exact but close.

    As far as some of the differences in dimensioning practices, I'm not conversant with that, though I've heard stories about it from friends who do that sort of thing.

    As far as Europeans.... Good God do you guys have regulations! I would not be surprised that you have a standard definition for air, water and Motherhood.

    Quote Originally Posted by matotope View Post
    Think about that today no one has a problem to buy the latest technology and can produce what you.My country closed 40 years.Rusian solders on every corners.Not CNC machines or others technologii,today im have a latest technologie im free.
    No doubt you can make it, but can you market it like us? Do you have the wherewithal to sell it everywhere? I'm not picking on the Czech Republic or playing the High and Mighty American, just making a point that it takes more than to make something, you have to sell it too.

    BTW, I like Czech firearms, food and music. I also like Czech women - what on Earth do you guys have in your water over there that makes them so well built? Whatever it is, if you could isolate it and sell it you all would be very wealthy.

    Gene

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    I disagree with the officials in Brussels, but you realize that 15 kilometers away from my house is completely different spoken words.We need to have ISO and the metric system in order to work.Not know how hard it was to make capitalism to socialistic shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matotope View Post
    I disagree with the officials in Brussels, but you realize that 15 kilometers away from my house is completely different spoken words. We need to have ISO and the metric system in order to work.
    Oh, you live near the border with Germany, Austria, Hungary or Poland? Well, I wish you the best in coping with the changes in the EU.

    I see that the Czech Republic has the Presidency of the EU for a few months. Vaclav Klaus is a man who is not afraid of the truth or to speak his mind. I admire him.

    As far as ISO. I've worked in ISO operations before and it's not bad. Certainly makes it easier to export to the EU.

    Quote Originally Posted by matotope View Post
    Not know how hard it was to make capitalism to socialistic shit.
    Do you mean changing from socialism to capitalism?

    As much as it may surprise you, America in some ways is pretty Socialist. Maybe we'll discover in a few years what you're undergoing right now after some of us have to fix the damages caused by the current and new Presidents.

    Gene

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    Vaclav Klaus it is hard in their opinions,this is not like officials in Brussels,nor the opposition in our country.Socialists devise how our country dip in exchange for votes as those unwilling to work.Everyone wants to free the hospital, school for their children for free,but no one knows where to take the money.These are remnants of socialism.
    This is my home http://www.mmdecin.cz/

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    Quote Originally Posted by matotope View Post
    Vaclav Klaus it is hard in their opinions,this is not like officials in Brussels,nor the opposition in our country.
    He is a good man. He is the first of many more who will think like him.

    Quote Originally Posted by matotope View Post
    Socialists devise how our country dip in exchange for votes as those unwilling to work.Everyone wants to free the hospital, school for their children for free,but no one knows where to take the money.These are remnants of socialism.
    The world is the same all over. Almost everyone wants free things. Almost no one wants to pay for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by matotope View Post
    This is my home http://www.mmdecin.cz/
    You live in a very attractive city. The hills around your city remind me of the hills where I live, in Pennsylvania in the United States. Especially Johnstown, PA.





    Very beautiful...







    In contrast, Pittsburgh, PA



    Always wondered why so many Czech people settled near Pittsburgh. I guess they felt like it looked like "back home".

    Decin is close to Dresden in Germany I would like to visit Dresden some day.

    Gene

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    Default The Metric System Vs Calculators Vs Brains

    We already have the metric system, that's why chevrolet makes 5cyl engines/dodge makes 10cyl ones. You want everything to be metric in this country because it will make EVERYTHING SOOOO easy. It'll be like giving calculators to kids, they won't have to think too much, graduate even dumber than they do now. Lets do away with fractions too, that'll make everything easier-till you have to actually use your brain to devide something 10mm into 3 equal pieces/and can only get "close" using (.). There's no reason to delete the Imperial system overnight and definately no reason to quit teaching it to our kids. If something is to be built metric, build the entire unit in metric, don't half @$$ it like the big 3. WE DON'T HAVE TO BE COMPETATIVE IN THE WORLD MARKET-OUR GOVERNMENT GAVE OUR SHARE OF IT TO CHINA/MEXICO/WHEREEVER! We're an import country now, why doesn't the rest of the world convert to our system, we buy everything we need from them.
    We should all send our lathes, milling machines, drill presses and anything with an inch marking/bolt/unholy-nonmetric hole size to china and accept their inferior metric crap in return.
    I just can't wait for the day I have to wait 3 or 4 weeks to have head bolts for my SB chevy motor machined/heat treated/and shipped to me-then find out they have metric threads. What a deal you want "for us".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Neill View Post

    We still sell beer and milk in Pints, and our road signs and travel distances and speedometers are still in Miles. We still talk about mpg, rather than km/litre, and you can still buy fruit and veg in both pounds/ounces as well as grams and kilos.
    I always wondered why on Top Gear they always talk about MPG, MPH, and pounds. I didn't think it was just so make things easier for a couple of American viewers. Thanks for that bit of info.


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